dgg@dandelion.CI.COM (Dave Grubbs) (03/01/88)
I have two problems. Random GURU messages and Hard Disk installation.
I'd really appreciate a comment or two. As usual, use electronic mail
unless the info is of general importance.
I went and bought a hard-disk. I bought it from my friendly dealer, from
whom I earlier purchased an A2000 to replace my A1000. I had 2Meg of
Microbotics RAM, for which I bought the $40 adapter to allow its insertion
into the A2000.
Now for the problem. The A2000 has worked OK for a while, but every so
often, say once per hour, it crashes on me. The "vt100" program does it
occasionally, INFOCOM games do it occasionally, demos and other junk from
the net do it occasionally, but DPAINT II is the winner. I have never
exited from DPAINT II. It always crashes the machine after an hour or so.
I don't have power glitches (The power is stable and I have a "power
conditioner"), temperature changes or wild parties in the floppy drives.
None of the small programs I've written (compiled with MANX 3.4) have ever
ever done this. But then I haven't written anything large and I don't
allocate a lot of data.
My first question is: Could this be a memory problem? If so, how do I
find out? How does one attack a problem like this? (I am real good
at software, but the hardware I have always used is handled by the
DEC/SUN/APOLLO/IBM field engineers.)
vt100, when it crashes always produces GURU: 00000003.00C0270A
Other random GURU's: 00000003.00204700
00000004.00218AD8
00000003.00147040
DPaint II is crazy: 00000003.0020C290 00000003.0020C3D8
00000004.0020C888 00000004.00C0482E (twice)
0000000B.0020F010 00000004.0020EEF8
00000004.0020FF58 00000004.002056E8
00000004.0020C618 0000000A.002056E8
What the hell?
The second problem is equally confusing, but more expensive. If I can't make
the hard disk work, I will toss this Amiga out my window or light a $4000
bonfire.
I got a Miniscribe 8438 30Meg drive.
Problem #1: It is only 30Meg when using RLL and the 2090 controller can
only deal with MFM format. So I have a fast 20Meg hard disk.
Is there anything I have to do to set "MFM"? Nothing is
very clear in their manual.
Problem #2: The damn disk says it can be configured to be units 1 to 4.
The Amiga manual says it should be unit 0. (which is mapped
to "Unit" 1 in the devs/Mountlist file.) Is this just a
manufacturer's difference in whether they use ordinal or
cardinal numbers, a fencepost error, or brain-damage?
Problem #3: I ran the "Install" program on the disk. It crashed my
machine, so I tried to reboot it. Every time it rebooted
it crashed. So I booted off another disk and removed the
"hddisk" files from the Expansion drawer. The next boot
off that disk worked fine.
So I decided to walk through the install script by hand.
"binddrivers" crashed my machine 16 out of 20 trials.
After the four which worked, "mount RES0:" worked properly,
and if I tried it a second time, I got the "already mounted"
message.
Then "prep" killed the machine in 3 of the remaining 4.
On the second of the four, I got a "NOT Preped" message.
Every time the "binddrivers" or "prep" command is executed,
I hear the drive rattle (the LED doesn't seem to do anything)
but the machine crashes most of the time. Random pattern.
Some GURU's from binddrivers and Prep: (some are the same!)
3.00147040 3.0021B80C B.00C050A8 (twice)
4.0020F86C B.0020F86C 3.0020F86C (six times)
B.00C0274A (four times)
Then I gave up. Any help would be appreciated.
David G. Grubbs Work phone: 617-667-4800
UUCP: ..!{mit-eddie,talcott,necntc}!dandelion!dgg
Internet: dgg@dandelion.ci.com (or dgg@athena.mit.edu, which still works)papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (03/01/88)
In article <4269@dandelion.CI.COM> dgg@dandelion.CI.COM (Dave Grubbs) writes: >I have two problems. Random GURU messages and Hard Disk installation. >I'd really appreciate a comment or two. As usual, use electronic mail >unless the info is of general importance. >I went and bought a hard-disk. I bought it from my friendly dealer, from >whom I earlier purchased an A2000 to replace my A1000. I had 2Meg of ^^^^ >Microbotics RAM, for which I bought the $40 adapter to allow its insertion >into the A2000. >Now for the problem. The A2000 has worked OK for a while, but every so >often, say once per hour, it crashes on me. The "vt100" program does it >occasionally, INFOCOM games do it occasionally, demos and other junk from >the net do it occasionally, but DPAINT II is the winner. I have never >exited from DPAINT II. It always crashes the machine after an hour or so. >My first question is: Could this be a memory problem? I THINK SO! >If so, how do I >find out? How does one attack a problem like this? (I am real good >at software, but the hardware I have always used is handled by the >DEC/SUN/APOLLO/IBM field engineers.) Ask Microbotics to send you a program to check memory. I have an ASDG 8MI and routinely run the check program. The program should be smart enough to tell you WHICH chip on the board is bad. Note that the Amiga has no parity checking. On an IBM PC a parity error produces an error code on the screen. On an Amiga it usually produces an Address error (code 03) or Illegal Instruction (code 04) which produces the GURU message. >vt100, when it crashes always produces GURU: 00000003.00C0270A ^^ THIS IS IT! Address error >Other random GURU's: 00000003.00204700 > 00000004.00218AD8 ^^ THIS IS ALSO IT: Illegal instruction. > 00000003.00147040 Good luck. -- Marco
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (03/01/88)
In article <4269@dandelion.CI.COM> dgg@dandelion.CI.COM (Dave Grubbs) writes: >I have two problems. Random GURU messages and Hard Disk installation. >My first question is: Could this be a memory problem? If so, how do I >find out? How does one attack a problem like this? (I am real good Contact Microbotics; I'm not sure, but I believe that they have a fix for this; (it way be another unrelated problem they have a fix for; but you never know) >I got a Miniscribe 8438 30Meg drive. >Problem #3: I ran the "Install" program on the disk. It crashed my > machine, so I tried to reboot it. Every time it rebooted > it crashed. So I booted off another disk and removed the > "hddisk" files from the Expansion drawer. The next boot > off that disk worked fine. With no hddisk.device, you aren't accomplishing anything. The Amiga can't talk to the hard disk. I suggest you put them back, and try it without the memory card in place. -- andy finkel {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Never test for an error condition you don't know how to handle." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
eric@hector.UUCP (Eric Lavitsky) (03/02/88)
In article <4269@dandelion.CI.COM> dgg@dandelion.UUCP writes: >I have two problems. Random GURU messages and Hard Disk installation. >I'd really appreciate a comment or two. As usual, use electronic mail >unless the info is of general importance. ... >The second problem is equally confusing, but more expensive. If I can't make >the hard disk work, I will toss this Amiga out my window or light a $4000 >bonfire. > >I got a Miniscribe 8438 30Meg drive. > >Problem #1: It is only 30Meg when using RLL and the 2090 controller can > only deal with MFM format. So I have a fast 20Meg hard disk. > Is there anything I have to do to set "MFM"? Nothing is > very clear in their manual. The only to make it work as an RLL drive is to either buy someone else's controller which explicilty states they support RLL or for around $100, but an Adaptec ACB4070 SCSI->ST506/RLL adapter and hook the drive up as a SCSI device instead. Are you running Prep with your memory board installed? Sounds like you may have a flaky connection in there somewhere - try using the drive without the memory board plugged in - then try putting the board in a different slot - you never know where those problems are lurking... Eric ARPA: eric@topaz.rutgers.edu "Lithium is no longer available UUCP: ...{wherever!}ulysses!eric on credit..." ...{wherever!}rutgers!topaz!eric - from Buckaroo Banzai SNAIL: 34 Maplehurst Ln, Piscataway, NJ 08854
dg2l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Douglas Phillip Ghormley) (03/06/88)
In article <4269@dandelion.CI.COM>, dgg@dandelion.CI.COM (Dave Grubbs) writes: >Problem #1: It is only 30Meg when using RLL and the 2090 controller can > only deal with MFM format. So I have a fast 20Meg hard disk. > Is there anything I have to do to set "MFM"? Nothing is > very clear in their manual. Pardon my invincible naivity, but what is RLL and MFM and how do you tell which type a given hard drive is? I thought all hard disks would work with the A2090. No? (While we're at it, is there an upper limit to what the 2090 can controll? i.e. 60Megs) Any other peculiarities? -Doug Ghormley (dg2l+@andrew.cmu.edu)
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (03/06/88)
In article <oWA4lWy00V4E89s0OA@andrew.cmu.edu> dg2l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Douglas Phillip Ghormley) writes: > >In article <4269@dandelion.CI.COM>, dgg@dandelion.CI.COM (Dave Grubbs) writes: >>Problem #1: It is only 30Meg when using RLL and the 2090 controller can >> only deal with MFM format. So I have a fast 20Meg hard disk. >> Is there anything I have to do to set "MFM"? Nothing is >> very clear in their manual. > >Pardon my invincible naivity, but what is RLL and MFM and how do you tell >which type a given hard drive is? I thought all hard disks would work with >the A2090. No? MFM and RLL (Run Length Limited) generally refer to both the controller and the drive. Quoting the Seagate Installation Handbook: "To achieve full performance with an MFM drive you must use an MFM controller which operates the ST412/MFM interface at 5.0 megabitssec. ... Operation of an MFM drive with an RLL controller is not approved by Seagate and may void your warranty". "To achieve full performance with ann RLL drive you must use and RLL controller whichj operates the ST412/RLL interface at 7.5 megabits/sec. Only drives with an R appended to the product nuber are designed and certified for use with an RLL controller. ... Operation of an RLL drive at data rates other than 7.5 megabits/sec. or operation of an RLL drive with an MFM controller is not approved by Seagate and may void your warranty." The Commodore A2090 Hard Disk controller is ST506/ST412/MFM and SCSI (ANSI X3T9.2) compatible. It is not ST412/RLL compatible. In general taking two drives with the same UNFORMATTED capacity, one RLL and one MFM, the RLL drive will have a larger FORMATTED capacity. Also, in general, using an RLL drive with an MFM controller might work, IF AND ONLY IF the drive has had an MFM LOW-LEVEL FORMATTING. Using an RLL drive that has been LOW-LEVEL FORMATTED with RLL won't work with an MFM drive. As you see from above, Seagate does NOT "approve" this and doing it will void your Seagate warranty. The viceversa, using an MFM drive with an RLL controller, will NEVER work. Seagate drives, for example, come low-level preformatted at the factory, with an included bad block table. The ST251, and 40 M MFM drive, comes MFM low-level preformatted. The ST238R, and 31M RLL drive, comes RLL low-level preformatted. Moreover, for optimum performance, ST412/MFM drives REQUIRE write precompensation, while RLL and SCSI drives don't. > (While we're at it, is there an upper limit to what the 2090 >can control? i.e. 60Megs) Any other peculiarities? The current hddisk.device driver supplied with the A2090 controller has a built-in limit of about 54 Meg (or something close to that) PER PARTITION. Therefore, if you have a large capacity drive, let's say 120 Meg, PREP'it with multiple partitions. This is also a good idea in general, since it will cut down the seek time, if a file is scattered throughout the drive. I hope this clears the question a bit. -- Marco
steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) (03/09/88)
In article <7434@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > > [Lots of really useful stuff about drives deleted] > >The current hddisk.device driver supplied with the A2090 controller has a >built-in limit of about 54 Meg (or something close to that) PER PARTITION. > Nope! The 54 Meg limit is imposed by the filesystem, not by the driver. Steve
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (03/09/88)
In article <3437@cbmvax.UUCP> steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) writes: >In article <7434@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> >> [Lots of really useful stuff about drives deleted] >> >>The current hddisk.device driver supplied with the A2090 controller has a >>built-in limit of about 54 Meg (or something close to that) PER PARTITION. >> >Nope! The 54 Meg limit is imposed by the filesystem, not by the driver. Thanks for correcting me, but I am still puzzled. The reason I assumed that the problem was with the hddsisk.device was because of the following line that I quote from the dos 1.2 upgrade info that we (developers) got: "More than 26 bitmaps are now supported, so that disks >54Mbytes are OK". So, who is at fault? The 1.2 SFS (Slow File System)? AmigaDos 1.2? Also, will FFS and SFS under 1.3 support >54Mbytes disks? -- Marco
jesup@pawl10.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) (03/10/88)
In article <7512@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >The reason I assumed that the problem was with the hddsisk.device was because >of the following line that I quote from the dos 1.2 upgrade info that we >(developers) got: > >"More than 26 bitmaps are now supported, so that disks >54Mbytes are OK". > >So, who is at fault? The 1.2 SFS (Slow File System)? AmigaDos 1.2? >Also, will FFS and SFS under 1.3 support >54Mbytes disks? They did fix the bitmap limit in 1.2. Unfortunately, the addition of the archive bit caused writes to the root directory to trash the pointer to bitmaps beyond 26. So for 1.2 SFS the limit remains. The FFS under 1.3 will support 2 gig disks (this is verified). The SFS under 1.3 will still have the 54 meg problem, as it is in ROM. I suspect that it will be fixed in 1.4, when they redo the ROMs. // Randell Jesup Lunge Software Development // Dedicated Amiga Programmer 13 Frear Ave, Troy, NY 12180 \\// beowulf!lunge!jesup@steinmetz.UUCP (518) 272-2942 \/ (uunet!steinmetz!beowulf!lunge!jesup) BIX: rjesup (-: The Few, The Proud, The Architects of the RPM40 40MIPS CMOS Micro :-)
cjp@antique.UUCP (Charles Poirier) (03/11/88)
In article <3437@cbmvax.UUCP> steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) writes: >In article <7434@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> >>The current hddisk.device driver supplied with the A2090 controller has a >>built-in limit of about 54 Meg (or something close to that) PER PARTITION. >> >Nope! The 54 Meg limit is imposed by the filesystem, not by the driver. > > Steve On a related note: Is it true that there is a limit of 8 surfaces (heads) for hard drives? If so, is this limit imposed by the 2090 controller, or something else? This sounds like something that can't be fixed by just creating more partitions. Thank you. -- Charles Poirier (decvax,ihnp4,attmail)!vax135!cjp "Docking complete... Docking complete... Docking complete..."
steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) (03/12/88)
In article <7512@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > >The reason I assumed that the problem was with the hddsisk.device was because >of the following line that I quote from the dos 1.2 upgrade info that we >(developers) got: > >"More than 26 bitmaps are now supported, so that disks >54Mbytes are OK". > >So, who is at fault? The 1.2 SFS (Slow File System)? AmigaDos 1.2? >Also, will FFS and SFS under 1.3 support >54Mbytes disks? > >-- Marco OK, the 54 Megabyte limit for hard disk partitions is true for the following:- 1.2 Slow File System 1.3 Slow File System The 54 Megabyte limit is/will be removed from the following:- 1.3 Fast File System 1.4 Fast File System 1.4 Slow File System Don't ask me for dates on 1.4 because I don't have the foggiest idea and even if I did, I wouldn't be able to tell you anyway. 1.3 is in gamma testing now. Steve
kenchiu@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kenneth Chiu) (03/12/88)
In article <3457@cbmvax.UUCP> steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) writes: > 1.3 Fast File System > 1.4 Fast File System > 1.4 Slow File System Boy, I thought I had this version/update/numbering scheme down pat. Does this imply that FFS is *not* all around better? Is it only for hard drives? Ken Chiu
perley@mazda.steinmetz (Donald P Perley) (03/13/88)
In article <3457@cbmvax.UUCP> steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) writes: >>-- Marco > >OK, the 54 Megabyte limit for hard disk partitions is true for the following:- > > 1.2 Slow File System > 1.3 Slow File System > >The 54 Megabyte limit is/will be removed from the following:- > > 1.3 Fast File System > 1.4 Fast File System > 1.4 Slow File System Slow File System in 1.3 and 1.4? Is that for days when you just don't want instant gratification? Or is it for floppy disk I/O? I could live with a 54 meg partition limit on my floppy disks, at least until 1.4 :-) -Don Perley My system will call your system..... and they'll do lunch!
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (03/14/88)
In article <9907@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> perley@mazda.UUCP (Donald P Perley) writes: >Slow File System in 1.3 and 1.4? Is that for days when you just don't want >instant gratification? Or is it for floppy disk I/O? SFS is for floppies and the FIRST partition of a hard disk. At least for 1.3. -- Marco
jesup@pawl18.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) (03/17/88)
>On a related note: Is it true that there is a limit of 8 surfaces (heads) >for hard drives? If so, is this limit imposed by the 2090 controller, >or something else? This sounds like something that can't be fixed by just >creating more partitions. The A2090 can only handle 8 heads on each ST506 drive (the original maximum). The drives with > 8 heads use a line that was for something else as a head address line. The A2090 can handle any size SCSI drive. The limitation on ST-506 drives is because of the standard chipset being used. // Randell Jesup Lunge Software Development // Dedicated Amiga Programmer 13 Frear Ave, Troy, NY 12180 \\// beowulf!lunge!jesup@steinmetz.UUCP (518) 272-2942 \/ (uunet!steinmetz!beowulf!lunge!jesup) BIX: rjesup (-: The Few, The Proud, The Architects of the RPM40 40MIPS CMOS Micro :-)
jdmst11@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John D Morris) (12/15/90)
I recently installed two more megs of memory into my A-500 for a total of 2.5 megs. Are there any PD or Shareware programs that make use of extra memory (and do it well). Anims, Utilities...GAMES...anything. If you know of any, could you please E-mail me the info? Thanx jdmst11@unix.cis.pitt.edu Hawk