WHE46@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) (12/16/90)
Commodore has so far refused to set a price on their "U-Lowell"
A2410 video card. If and when Commodore does set a price on it, the
price will, I feel, totally dictate Commodore's success or failure
in the workstation market and the Amiga's future as a general-purpose
computer system. This will be the very first video product to be
available from Commodore which will improve the Amiga's resolution
and color capability in a way that is usable for anything but video.
For this reason, and for the reason that this is Commodore's "short
term solution" for the Amiga's color problems, this product
absolutely must have a good price tacked onto it.
The A2410 is, basically, a video card with a resolution of 1024x768
and a color capability of 256 colors out of a palette of 16 million,
with a TI 34010 graphics coprocessor. (These are simplfied stats,
since the actual resolution is slightly higher, and the color capability
slightly better) There are similar video cards available for the MAC
and IBM systems for less than $600. There are also similar video
cards available with the graphics coprocessor for less than $200.
This video card is a LONG time in coming. It is so long in coming
that it is already out-of-date before it is even introduced. There
are better TMS34020-based video cards becoming available for IBMs and
MACs with resolutions as high as 1280x1024 and color capabilities
as good as 32-bit. For this reason, I feel that the A2410 is already
too little much too late. If Commodore puts a price tag on it much
higher than $600, it will be too little, too late, too much, NO THANKS.
-MB-bgribble@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Bill Gribble) (12/16/90)
In article <EC0E50F2D0DFE0871F@ISUVAX.BITNET> WHE46@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) writes: > This video card is a LONG time in coming. It is so long in coming >that it is already out-of-date before it is even introduced. There >are better TMS34020-based video cards becoming available for IBMs and >MACs with resolutions as high as 1280x1024 and color capabilities >as good as 32-bit. For this reason, I feel that the A2410 is already >too little much too late. If Commodore puts a price tag on it much >higher than $600, it will be too little, too late, too much, NO THANKS. > > > -MB- For once, I agree with Mr. Barrett. The future of the A3000UX has been hashed, rehashed, diced, sliced, and reiterated to the point of utter mind numbness, but I think everyone would agree that - now I'll spray on a little flame retardant, since I don't know if Marc's price quotes are accurate - everyone would agree that the future of the 3000 as a color X workstation would be substantially more secure if there was a video card available at a price comparable to those available for Macs and IBMs. I'm planning on buying an A3000UX when they become available, *if* I feel at the time that I'm getting the best system for that amount of money. Another $600 isn't inconsiderable, but for the improvement and to get a product built by the people that made my computer I think it's a small price to pay, and bundling SVR4, the card, ethernet, etc. and calling the whole thing the 3000UX-gt or something equally stupid would make the 3000 more attractive as a unix box. Also, a hardware-type point (so ignore this if it seems ignorant, I don't design computers for a living) - I recall that Amiga unix doesn't use the blitter for graphics in X, relying on the main processor. From what I've heard, the graphics card is designed to run under UNIX and X, so wouldn't this free up a bit of processor time, making the machine run faster as well as look better? Just think, you could market it as a graphics card/accelerator card all in one! :-) Enough already. ***************************************************************************** ** Bill Gribble Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA ** ** bgribble@jarthur.claremont.edu Never heard of it? You're stupid. ** *****************************************************************************
jgay@digi.lonestar.org (john gay) (12/18/90)
From article <EC0E50F2D0DFE0871F@ISUVAX.BITNET>, by WHE46@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett): > > stuff about the C= video card and C= future deleted > > slightly better) There are similar video cards available for the MAC > and IBM systems for less than $600. There are also similar video > cards available with the graphics coprocessor for less than $200. > > This video card is a LONG time in coming. It is so long in coming > that it is already out-of-date before it is even introduced. There > are better TMS34020-based video cards becoming available for IBMs and > MACs with resolutions as high as 1280x1024 and color capabilities > as good as 32-bit. For this reason, I feel that the A2410 is already > too little much too late. If Commodore puts a price tag on it much > higher than $600, it will be too little, too late, too much, NO THANKS. > First off I too would like to know the price of the A2410, what kind of monitor I will need for it and other things (and I would surely love to be able to buy the card for ~600 or so), but... I don't think that Marc's pricing is completely accurate. I don't know about the Mac market (but I could probably guess with everything else by Apple being sooo overpriced), but in the IBM world the cards that I think he is talking about are the graphics clone boards that are out. These do have a limited co-processor, but have nowhere near the power of a TI34010 chip. Most of these cards run in there highest modes in interlaced mode and are not very fast (compared to the 34010 boards). The cheapest that I have seen a new 34010 board is the one from Nec priced at (I believe) ~$600 (16 colors, don't know the resolution). If you wanted all the functionality (256 colors, higher resolution) more memory (bringing the price close to $1000 - uses VRAM). I know of 1 board using the 34020 and have seen adds for another (no price, no specs, basically just a phone number which I didn't call). The one that I know of was priced (last I knew) at around $3000-4000. Not an overly large market at that price. I am sure that the '020 board pricing will drop somewhat after sales get established, but most '010 boards are still in the ~$1500 price range and go up to $3000 adding features and memory. Again I hope that the C= boards are in the reasonable price range - read ~$400-600 range (400 being where can I get mine today, 600 being where can I go and look at the board and maybe be impressed enough to buy it, but probably go home and talk myself into it in a couple months). john.
ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) (12/18/90)
In article <EC0E50F2D0DFE0871F@ISUVAX.BITNET> WHE46@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) writes: > [ About the A2410 graphics card ] >There are similar video cards available for the MAC >and IBM systems for less than $600. There are also similar video >cards available with the graphics coprocessor for less than $200. Name them. Brands, abilities, price. I'm serious. In fact, I've been trying to configure for myself a 386-based PC with a 1024 X 768 X 256 non-interlaced co-processor graphics card. The lowest cost options I can name are: The NEC Multi-sync Graphics Engine, TI 34010, 1 Meg VRAM 384K program RAM, VGA mode: $1000 list. Best price I found in Computer Shopper: $700 The Hercules Graphics Station. TI34010, 1 Meg VRAM, up to 2 Meg program RAM, VGA mode: $1000 list, best CS price $650. The Paradise 8514/A, IBM 8514/A clone (NOT a 34010). VGA pass-thru (means you also need a VGA card). Best CS price $600. So help me out here. You know of a TI34010 card for less then $200? I want one. -- First comes the logo: C H E C K P O I N T T E C H N O L O G I E S / / \\ / / Then, the disclaimer: All expressed opinions are, indeed, opinions. \ / o Now for the witty part: I'm pink, therefore, I'm spam! \/
martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) (12/19/90)
Between the wines, I heard [RUMORS ALERT - Turn off Denise to reduce
Signal/Noise ratio] a price tag from 1000-1700$ Canadian. Substract
all taxes that could lay in the 600$-1000$ US range.
Thoses prices are UNCONFIRMED.
True, if this card is cheap, it can be very good for the Amiga. But
true also is the fact that at least now WE have something. A solution
is better than no solution.
Daniel.
--
// Daniel Martin Universite de Montreal \\
// MediaLab, ca vous regarde! C.P. 6128, Succursale A, \\
\\// Mail: martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA Montreal (Quebec), CANADA, \\//
\/ Tel.: (514) 343-6111 poste 3494 H3C 3J7 \/seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (12/19/90)
In-Reply-To: message from WHE46@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU No flames, really, but some facts are abit inaccurate. You can get VGA cards for a clone for about $200, NOT TIGA boards. And there isn't a board like this for the Mac for about $600, not with a coprocessor, not with that resolution. The TMS34010 is far from outdated...just check out Number Nine and Hercules. There are little to no boards for the Mac with 1280x1024 and 32bits. Most boards with above 8bits of color have a max of 1024 x 768, or something like 1152 x 832...tops. And all of these options cost plenty...upwards of $5K. If things were as cheap as you'd like to make them out to be on the Mac side, maybe even the Mac owners would quit bitching about Apple prices. Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.5 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc RealWorld: Sean Cunningham ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil Voice: (512) 992-2810 INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com ____________________________________ // | * All opinions expressed herein | HELP KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/ | Copyright 1990 VISION GRAPHICS | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
rsilvers@hawk.ulowell.edu (Robert Silvers) (12/21/90)
In article <EC0E50F2D0DFE0871F@ISUVAX.BITNET> WHE46@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) writes: > > Commodore has so far refused to set a price on their "U-Lowell" >A2410 video card. If and when Commodore does set a price on it, the >price will, I feel, totally dictate Commodore's success or failure >in the workstation market and the Amiga's future as a general-purpose >computer system. This will be the very first video product to be > The A2410 is, basically, a video card with a resolution of 1024x768 >and a color capability of 256 colors out of a palette of 16 million, >with a TI 34010 graphics coprocessor. (These are simplfied stats, > This video card is a LONG time in coming. It is so long in coming >that it is already out-of-date before it is even introduced. There I disagree that the 2410 is out of date. It is true that there are `020 cards availiable for the PC with 24 bits. That should lower the price of his card, but does not make it obsolete. Did you see that IBM just anounced their new XVA graphics card? It is designed to replace VGA, and is said to be the new "standard" for high-end PCs. It offers 1024x768 and 256 colors. --Rob.