lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (12/24/90)
In <1990Dec22.203552.25888@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, cag4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Carson A. Gaspar) writes: > >Hey, get your facts straight. NewTek released the Toaster a couple of >months late, not a couple of years. It was _leaked_ a couple of years >ago, but was only _officially_ announced fairly recently. NewTek >can't help what other people say. Say what? Showing it at shows, and saying "coming in <insert month here>", seems to me to be an announcement. Calling their latest announcement an announcement, does not change the previous announcements one iota, regardless of what dictionary you wish to look in. > Many of us remember the "Laser >Toaster" joke that NewTek circulated as a cover story for any leaks. >Don't say bad things that have no basis in fact about a company that's >done so much for the amiga. What's the big deal? They announced it and showed it and announced it and showed it. Then for good measure, they repeated that a few times. When they got tired of that, they decided to say "We don't know when it will be ready", and "We haven't officially announced it yet". Nothing bad being said about them at all, unless you consider that the Toaster's position of vapourware set records to be particularly bad. -larry -- The best way to accelerate an MsDos machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (12/27/90)
In <118@maxx.UUCP>, tyager@maxx.UUCP (Tom Yager) writes: >In article <2428@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca>, lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >> What's the big deal? They announced it and showed it and announced it and >> showed it. Then for good measure, they repeated that a few times. When they >> got tired of that, they decided to say "We don't know when it will be ready", >> and "We haven't officially announced it yet".Nothing bad being said about them >> at all, unless you consider that the Toaster's position of vapourware set >> records to be particularly bad. >> -larry >> | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | > >Give them some slack. That a company the size of NewTek could EVER manage >to release a product like the Toaster is amazing. That any company of ANY >size could manage it at $1595 is astounding. Those of us who have our >Toasters don't care how long it took; it was worth the wait. Hey... read my posting again. I said there was nothing bad being said, and I meant it. Yes, it is an amazing feat, and I don't see anything particularly wrong with the time frame, considering the complexity of the device, the problems they had along the way etc. You can't change historical fact though, and the fact is that NewTek announced the product LONG before they shipped it. Vapourware is vapourware, regardless of the reasons why or the niftyness of the product. The folks I don't give any slack to are those that try to rewrite history by saying things like "They didn't announce it until recently." -- The best way to accelerate an MsDos machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) (12/27/90)
Tom mentions he'd like to hear from toaster owners what they thought about the toaster. Well I've had mine for just over a day now and managed to pick up most of the concepts fairly quickly so it seems the system is pretty intuitive. The question/gripe I have is with Lightwave 3D (the toaster's 3D renderer). From what I gathered from the manual and from trying out various things with it the program is only capable of doing animation if you had a single frame controller. Granted 700K of info is a lot to load to try and do animation but surely there must be some means or program out there that will create difference pictures like the ANIM format. Is there any tool to do this? How much does a single frame controller cost? Jason Leigh jal@cs.wayne.edu -- :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: :^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: :v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v:
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (12/28/90)
In article <1990Dec27.142256.9879@cs.wayne.edu> jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: >Well I've had mine for just over a day now and managed to pick up most >of the concepts fairly quickly so it seems the system is pretty >intuitive. Yes, the software was all done so that any joe-blo non-computer based video guy would be able to understand and use it. In my opinion, Lightwave is one of the most intuitive and easy to use 3D programs anywhere. Imagine by comparison is a complete nightmare!!! >The question/gripe I have is with Lightwave 3D (the >toaster's 3D renderer). From what I gathered from the manual and from >trying out various things with it the program is only capable of doing >animation if you had a single frame controller. No, animation can be done without a single frame controller, you just can't play the result back in real time without one. >Granted 700K of info >is a lot to load to try and do animation but surely there must be some >means or program out there that will create difference pictures like >the ANIM format. Is there any tool to do this? Lightwave was designed for professional 3D video animation, not for home use, unless your home is your studio :-). Single frame capable video equiptment is a must in a studio that does pro 3D animation so for Lightwave to expect this equiptment is not outrageous. As for animating 24 bits in real time......forget it! Using the current method of Amiga animation compression, only an insignificant portion of the image could change before you would run out of memory bandwidth. Its not worth it! You could however purchase one of those pseudo 24bit cheater boards like DCTV, convert each IFF24 produced by Lightwave to that boards format and then animate those images (with the degradation in quality that is inherent with that psuedo 24bit image). You could also use TAD or ADPro to convert the IFF24 images to more standard amiga formats before compiling your animation. This of course is not what Lightwave was intended for, but it can be done. ADPro would be best because you could do the conversion in batch mode via an AREXX script. >How much does a single frame controller cost? It is unfortunate that although the cost of creating broadcast quality animation has come down to the consumer level, the equiptment to record it on has not. Single frame capable VCRs start at about $5K and the controller is another $1K to $2K. Another option is the discontinued Panasonic 8" videodisc recorder which can be had for around $8K which alleviates the need for the single frame controller. You could also have a video graphics studio do the recording for you. Your final option is to use movie film which can be much cheaper but has its own set of problems. The appendix in the Toaster manual mentions some equiptment options and prices. Anyway....happy Toasting!!! %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tyager@maxx.UUCP (Tom Yager) (12/28/90)
In article <2428@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca>, lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: > What's the big deal? They announced it and showed it and announced it and > showed it. Then for good measure, they repeated that a few times. When they > got tired of that, they decided to say "We don't know when it will be ready", > and "We haven't officially announced it yet".Nothing bad being said about them > at all, unless you consider that the Toaster's position of vapourware set > records to be particularly bad. > -larry > | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | Give them some slack. That a company the size of NewTek could EVER manage to release a product like the Toaster is amazing. That any company of ANY size could manage it at $1595 is astounding. Those of us who have our Toasters don't care how long it took; it was worth the wait. For those of you moaning about the lack of Amiga coverage in the press, my BYTE review of the Video Toaster is on its way. It promises to be one of the biggest, glossiest reviews we've ever run (because the Toaster is a big, glossy product). There will be more Amiga coverage coming in the form of that system's application to various elements of video production and pro (not home) quality multimedia presentations. I've just started reading this group again. I'd like to hear from some other netters who are using Toasters. Let me know how you like it, what you're using it for, what surprised or disappointed you, etc. This is for my own curiousity; the review has already been put to bed. (ty) -- +--Tom Yager, Technical Editor, BYTE----Freelance writer-------------------+ | UUCP: decvax!maxx!tyager NET: maxx!tyager@bytepb.byte.com | | "Get hipper...with flippers!" | +-------------Dr. Dude & Assoc.------I speak only for myself.--------------+