PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) (12/20/90)
(Mounting SoapBox v1.2...)
After all this discussion over a new computer, I think one thing should be
kept in mind, and that's the current library of titles.
Several years ago I went from an Apple IIe to IIgs. Many programs I had were
completely uncontrolable at IIgs speed, like arcade games. Others benefitted
from the increased speed, though.
In speeding the machine up, Apple was smart to do one thing, and that was keep
it downwardly compatible. The 65816 chip the IIgs ran was capable of simulating
a 6502 within itself, making it a IIe when there was need for it.
My point is this: if Commodore does create a new mid-line box, it should retain
some downward compatibility. One reason I'm reluctant to buy an A3000 is that
it only has a 68030 on board, and even if running ADos 1.3 there will still
be problems (besides, can you imagine Blood Money at 25 mhz???)
Now, as for a dream machine... well, how's this:
The Amiga 1200
Uses an A1000 case with one expansion slot, parallel to the mother
board (like the A3000 does)
14 Mhz 68000 with 68881 co-processor
Room for 2 internal 3.5" drives
1 Meg RAM stock, expandable to 3 Meg on the motherboard.
Price: $999
Ok, you can all start telling me I have rocks in my head :-)
(UnMounting SoapBox v1.2)
.signed,
-----
| Bitnet: pyc136@uriacc.bitnet
Andy Patrizio | ARPA: pyc136@uriacc.uri.edu
Class of 2010 | Internet: pyc136%uriacc.bitnet@brownvm.brown.edu
University of RI | Usenet: andypo@idsvax.ids.com
| UUCP: uunet!rayssd!idsvax!andypo
-----
"With friends like these, who needs hallucinations?" - Buddy, "Night Court"
-----don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (12/20/90)
In article <39588@nigel.ee.udel.edu> PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: >(Mounting SoapBox v1.2...) > >Now, as for a dream machine... well, how's this: > > The Amiga 1200 > Uses an A1000 case with one expansion slot, parallel to the mother > board (like the A3000 does) > 14 Mhz 68000 with 68881 co-processor > Room for 2 internal 3.5" drives > 1 Meg RAM stock, expandable to 3 Meg on the motherboard. > Price: $999 > Having an '881 on this machine would serve no useful purpose. The 68000 can only access the '881 as a peripheral, not as a coprocessor, which a) is slower than as a coprocessor and b) is unsupported in s/w as far as I know, unless you write your own code to take advantage of it. While we're at suggestions for new mid-level Amigas, how about this: (Call it, maybe, the 500P+ ?) Start with a 500, 1 meg RAM. Run it at 14 MHz with a small cache (like ADSpeed does) so there won't be a need for upgrading the whole system to faster memory. Throw out the power supply & get a real one. Pull out the internal floppy, replacing it with a 20 meg or so HD (assuming you still have space in there for the controller somewhere). Or, probably better, strip down a 2000 to be sort of a combination of of the above suggestions (with a new case that's not so ugly :-). -- Gibberish Amiga 3000 owner/fanatic is spoken Contact don@brahms.udel.edu for more information. here. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.
baronz@caen.engin.umich.edu (Aaron L Richards) (12/20/90)
In article <16983@brahms.udel.edu>, don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes: > In article <39588@nigel.ee.udel.edu> PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: > >Now, as for a dream machine... well, how's this: > > > > The Amiga 1200 > > Uses an A1000 case with one expansion slot, parallel to the mother > > board (like the A3000 does) > > 14 Mhz 68000 with 68881 co-processor > > Room for 2 internal 3.5" drives > > 1 Meg RAM stock, expandable to 3 Meg on the motherboard. > > Price: $999 > For the past year or so I have kept hearing about a machine nicknamed the "Little menace" (All names have been changed to protect the guilty.) It is supposed to be a 3000 basically inside a 500's case, minus slots and other official expansion options. If/when they release such a machine, especially if it is anytime soon for a price of under $1000, I would be ecstatic. This "rumor" is a sticking point between me and an otherwise incredibly reliable source. If anyone has any further info on the "Little menace" go ahead and email it to me rather than post an on-going series of rumors. I am interested in hearing more about it. -Aaron -- ************************************************************ * * * President MACRO on Campus * * (Michigan's Amiga Computer Resource Organization) * * * * Senior Computer Consultant -> Organizational *
mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (12/21/90)
In article <39588@nigel.ee.udel.edu> Andy Patrizio <PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu> writes:
(Mounting SoapBox v1.2...)
Ah - he's running obsolete software! No wonder....
My point is this: if Commodore does create a new mid-line box, it should
retain some downward compatibility. One reason I'm reluctant to buy an
A3000 is that it only has a 68030 on board, and even if running ADos 1.3
there will still be problems (besides, can you imagine Blood Money at
25 mhz???)
(Mounting SoapBox v2.04...)
CBM has worked very hard to maintain downwards compatability. I've had
only minor zero problems with my 3000, under 2.0 or 1.3. In almost
every case where something breaks, the _program_ is broken, not the
3000 or 2.0. In those cases where it was 2.0 (it's never been the
3000), CBM has done something about fixing it.
Correctly written programs do work on the 3000 under 1.3. The vast
majority of them work under 2.0. Anything that ignores the guidelines
that CBM has published isn't correctly written.
<mike
--daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (12/21/90)
In article <39588@nigel.ee.udel.edu> PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: >(Mounting SoapBox v1.2...) >In speeding the machine up, Apple was smart to do one thing, and that was keep >it downwardly compatible. The 65816 chip the IIgs ran was capable of simulating >a 6502 within itself, making it a IIe when there was need for it. >My point is this: if Commodore does create a new mid-line box, it should retain >some downward compatibility. One reason I'm reluctant to buy an A3000 is that >it only has a 68030 on board, and even if running ADos 1.3 there will still >be problems (besides, can you imagine Blood Money at 25 mhz???) The 68030 is more compatible with the 68000 than the 65816 is with the 6502. Especially since the main user-mode difference between the two, the MOVE SR,<ea> instruction, is replaced by an operating system call by all correct Amiga programs. The Apple IIGS is claimed as running about 80% of the Apple II programs; the A3000 does much better, I imagine. And realize, most of the Apple II programs that failed on the Apple IIGS fail because of things that Apple couldn't forsee when they came out with the Apple II. Very small differences between the 65816 and all, nothing really that much against the [relatively few] proper programming guidelines for the Apple II. Every Amiga program we've seen so far that fails on the A3000 fails because it has a bug that would have been prevented if the programmer followed the guidelines published before the A1000 was commercially available. In other words, the Apple II programmers accidently wrote programs that failed on the IIGS. Amiga programmers for the most part chose to fail on the A3000 (though some of the bugs can also happen by accident). The Amiga machines ARE NOT toy computers with toy operating systems like C64 or Apple II, they are real computers and, if do follow the guidelines, you can expect to run on any system from the A1000 on up to the A3000 and no doubt beyond as well. As for games, since all the Amiga timing is done based on the video display or hardware timers, any correctly written game should be pretty CPU speed independent. While you certainly CAN get away with software timing loops on the A500, they'll go 10-20 time faster on the A3000. One of the many reasons such things have always been expressly forbidden. >Andy Patrizio | ARPA: pyc136@uriacc.uri.edu -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "I can't drive 55" -Sammy Hagar
p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) (01/03/91)
In article <16983@brahms.udel.edu> don@brahms.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes: > Having an '881 on this machine would serve no useful purpose. The >68000 can only access the '881 as a peripheral, not as a coprocessor, which >a) is slower than as a coprocessor and b) is unsupported in s/w as far as I >know, unless you write your own code to take advantage of it. Although it is slower than the 020 coprocessor interface it IS supported by the system software. The mathieeedoubbas.library and mathieeedoubtrans.library can be used with arbitrary math coprocessors (together with a custom MathIEEE.resource module) and have special code for a '881 connected as a peripheral. Regards, -- Michael van Elst UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."