brianr@tekig4.TEK.COM (Brian Rhodefer) (10/22/87)
On the subject of cursor key arrangement:
I work with an intel iPDS development system.
Though its hardware designers deserve the death penalty
for crimes against humanity, it has an extremely
convenient cursor-key arrangement:
____
| | The center "home" key acts as an "amplified"
| ^ | version of the last-used cursor key:
____|____|____ Used after an "up(down)" cursor,
| | | | it means,"scroll up(down) one page".
| < |HOME| > | After a "left(right)" cursor, it means,
|____|____|____| "go to end(beginning) of line".
| |
| V | A good place/use for the "help" key, no?
|____|
Also, I have to know: The so-called "pencil holder" on the
A1000's keyboard is actually a place to put removable printed
labels that a software vendor might supply to show what the
"function" keys do, isn't it?
Disjointedly,
Brian Rhodefergrr@cbmvax.UUCP (10/22/87)
In article <2059@tekig4.TEK.COM> brianr@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Rhodefer) writes: > On the subject of cursor key arrangement: > > I work with an intel iPDS development system. > Though its hardware designers deserve the death penalty > for crimes against humanity, it has an extremely > convenient cursor-key arrangement: > ____ > | | The center "home" key acts as an "amplified" > | ^ | version of the last-used cursor key: > ____|____|____ Used after an "up(down)" cursor, > | | | | it means,"scroll up(down) one page". > | < |HOME| > | After a "left(right)" cursor, it means, > |____|____|____| "go to end(beginning) of line". > | | > | V | A good place/use for the "help" key, no? > |____| Ah, I *looks* convienient, and is probably optimum for a hand that reaches over from the home keys to stab a button, but it isn't so good when you want plant your hand over it and do repeated cursor manipulations such as in a spreadsheet or perhaps a drafting package. The middle finger doesn't like to bend back to the cursor down key, causing this to be tagged as anti-ergonomic. The A1000 cross arrangment is even worse in this respect (opinion) since it seems hard to even figure out which fingers to use. > Also, I have to know: The so-called "pencil holder" on the > A1000's keyboard is actually a place to put removable printed > labels that a software vendor might supply to show what the > "function" keys do, isn't it? I've heard claims to this effect, and it's no doubt true. Somehow, the fact that nobody involved with the new keyboard had ever seen the slot used with a templet led to its being overlooked. I feel kind of silly about it, but then I only tell the boss I'm perfect... CONFESSION: I don't use any of those silly keys off the main keypad! I mean, I even type control/h for backspace. The only things causing me distress are the escape key, which I'd rather have where the ~` key is and the caps lock key which is a worthless anachronism. Of course both of these would be even further departures from the original A1000 keyboard... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: out to lunch... Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
bryce@hoser.berkeley.edu (Bryce Nesbitt) (10/23/87)
In article <2574@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >In article <2059@tekig4.TEK.COM> brianr@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Rhodefer) writes: >> On the subject of cursor key arrangement [I like]: >> ______ >> | ^ | >> ____|____|_____ >> | < |HOME| > | >> |____|____|____| >> | V | >> |____| > >Ah, I *looks* convienient... ...but it isn't so good when you want plant >your hand over it and do repeated cursor manipulations.... >The middle finger doesn't like to bend back to the cursor down key, causing >this to be tagged as anti-ergonomic. The A1000 cross arrangment is even >worse in this respect (opinion) since it seems hard to even figure out which >fingers to use. *But* with the A1000 star pad one can devote a finger for each direction... _no_ lag for changing direction. Place the thumb on the down arrow, middle finger on up. Now two more fingers will be perfectly positioned for left and right, with only the little finger hanging loose. Compare that to the A500: ______ | ^ | _____|____|_____ | < | V | > | |____|____|____| Just try to put your hand on it so no finger travel is needed! [Disclaimer: Keyboards are a religious topic... the squeemish are advised to hit 'n' now!] Better is this: ______ | ^ | _____|____|_____ | < | | > | |____| V |____| | | |____| How's that for the best of both worlds? I like both the A1000 and A500 keyboards. The A2000 keyboard, on the other hand... well... ick! USE THE A500 KEYBOARD OR BETTER, PLEASE! (More details as to why the A2000's keyboard is inadequate are available on request) >> Also, I have to know: The so-called "pencil holder" on the >> A1000's keyboard is actually a place to put [function key templates, >> isn't it?] > >I've heard claims to this effect, and it's no doubt true. 'Tis true! The keyboard templates all still work on the A500, a little lip to keep the card from sliding into the keys would help. (Same time as the extra right hand keyboard standoff goes in, right George? :-) >CONFESSION: I don't use any of those silly keys off the main keypad! I mean, >I even type control/h for backspace. The only things causing me distress are >the escape key, which I'd rather have where the ~` key is and the caps lock >key which is a worthless anachronism. Ahah! You obviously want a copy of my keymap which reverses the two! 1/2 :-) When it works, the A1000 keyboard betwixt my fingers has another very nice feature: _____________________________________________ | | |_____________________________________________| | | | |____|____| Yup! you are not seeing things... two extra keys in easy reach of the thumbs. Press the left and the right hand traces out a cursor pad. Press the right and the opposite hand traces out a numeric pad. ALL WITHOUT MOVING YOUR HAND FROM HOME ROW... EVER. If "back space" "del" and "help" get tossed in somewhere the entire east end of the keyboard will become redundant. *Thats* what I call ergonomics. Now, shall we have a serious talk about redesigning the A2000's keyboard? :-| >George Robbins |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, SOH, EOT) {o O} . bryce@hoser.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!hoser!bryce (") "...the Amiga talks to you in either a male or female voice. U You can perfect stand-up routines, learn longfellow, practice Poe -even study French" -Amiga Advertising, 1985 (Americans in France speaking with an Amiga accent :-)
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (10/23/87)
>*But* with the A1000 star pad one can devote a finger for each direction... >_no_ lag for changing direction. Place the thumb on the down arrow, middle >finger on up. Now two more fingers will be perfectly positioned for left and >right, with only the little finger hanging loose. Yup, that's how I do it too. With a fast repeat and low repeat-lag, it makes for fast positioning. -Matt
klm@munsell.UUCP (Kevin (with the fiberglass reinforced left foot) McBride) (10/23/87)
In article <2574@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: =In article <2059@tekig4.TEK.COM> brianr@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Rhodefer) writes: = => Also, I have to know: The so-called "pencil holder" on the => A1000's keyboard is actually a place to put removable printed => labels that a software vendor might supply to show what the => "function" keys do, isn't it? = =I've heard claims to this effect, and it's no doubt true. Somehow, the fact =that nobody involved with the new keyboard had ever seen the slot used with a =templet led to its being overlooked. I feel kind of silly about it, but then =I only tell the boss I'm perfect... Well, then it's obvious that the people involved with the new keybored have never used Maxiplan before. It has a "pencil holder" sized template that shows you what the various function keys do. Kinda nice. I wish that other software packages had them too. Dpaint comes to mind. I've made up my own template to remind me of all the function keys I have programmed into DBW VT100 that help make life bearable when I have to log in to the PDP-11. (Gack!) (Can you spot the intentional spelling error in the above paragraph? Hint: It's not PDP-11 :-) BTW, speaking of Maxiplan, who supports it these days? When I bought my copy about a year ago, it was distributed by Maxisoft. A couple months later I saw suspicious looking Electronic Farts stickers on the box at my unfriendly neighborhood computer store. Now I hear rumors that It's controlled by OXXI. Can somebody shed some light on this please? My old copy is kinda buggy in a couple places. It calls the guru almost every time I try to graph something. I'd like to get the new "Maixplan Plus" or whatever it is they're calling it with the macro facilities. Do they offer an upgrade? I like Maxiplan, but I'd hate to spend the money buying it all over again. -- Kevin McBride, the guy in the cast // | Your mind is totally controlled Raquetball - the only way to // | It has been stuffed into my mold ruin your ski season :-( \\ // Amiga | And you will do as you are told {encore,adelie}!munsell!klm \\// Rules! | until the rights to you are sold
jack@cca.CCA.COM (Jack Orenstein) (10/23/87)
How about this layout for the function keys: (It's intuitive and has the advantage that the thick-fingered among us will never hit the wrong key) +---+ | A | | | | +--------------------+---+--------------+ | | +-----+ +-----+ | <- | Standard qwerty | -> | +-----+ +-----+ | | +--------------------+---+--------------+ | | | | V | +---+ I just LOVE these intellectual discussions. Jack Orenstein This is not a disclaimer
jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM (Joanne Dow) (10/23/87)
Um, WordPerfect uses templates to show what the function keys do. They have
had to supply (at great expense I'm sure <^_-> ) two templates one for the
A1000 and the other for the A2000. I actually find their A2000 template to
be just a little more pleasing than the A1000 template. The latter is a long
thin affair that seem to waht to curl up slightly towards the ends. Perhaps
i could "iron it out" next time I do laundry; but, it's plastic so I figure
I'd better not try that. The A2000 template is two attacied foldable sections
that end up lying quite flat around the A2000 function keys. Enough space was
left there to support it so this is convenient. In addition it breaks the
rather busy A1000 template into two sections, one for virgin or shifted
and the other for control or alternate - or something like that.
--
<@_@>
BIX:jdow
INTERNET:jdow@gryphon.CTS.COM
UUCP:{akgua, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, ihnp4, nosc}!crash!gryphon!jdow
Remember - A bird in the hand often leaves a sticky deposit. Perhaps it was
better you left it in the bush with the other one.acs@amdahl.amdahl.com (Tony Sumrall) (10/24/87)
In article <1316@atkins.munsell.UUCP> klm@atkins.UUCP (Kevin (with the fiberglass reinforced left foot) McBride) writes: >BTW, speaking of Maxiplan, who supports it these days? When I bought my >copy about a year ago, it was distributed by Maxisoft. A couple months >later I saw suspicious looking Electronic Farts stickers on the box at >my unfriendly neighborhood computer store. Now I hear rumors that It's >controlled by OXXI. Oxxi supports it (and fairly well, too). To the best of my knowledge Oxxi has supported it ever since MaxiSoft gave it up (although I think that the guys that used to be MaxiSoft still do the real tech work). I've spoken with the Oxxi folks on several occasions to report bugs and they've always sent me free upgrades when they've fixed my bugs. I bought the original MaxiPlan (no Plus) and then upgraded to the Plus version for about $35...that was a year or so ago though so I don't think it's quite so cheap now. >Kevin McBride, the guy in the cast -- Tony Sumrall acs@amdahl.com <=> amdahl!acs [ Opinions expressed herein are the author's and should not be construed to reflect the views of Amdahl Corp. ]
rico@oscvax.UUCP (10/24/87)
In article <2574@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: > >Ah, I *looks* convienient, and is probably optimum for a hand that reaches over >from the home keys to stab a button, but it isn't so good when you want plant >your hand over it and do repeated cursor manipulations such as in a spreadsheet >or perhaps a drafting package. The middle finger doesn't like to bend back to >the cursor down key, causing this to be tagged as anti-ergonomic. The A1000 >cross arrangment is even worse in this respect (opinion) since it seems hard >to even figure out which fingers to use. I didn't know what fingers I used to do cursoring until I watched myself do it (I kind of touch type a lot...). And the A1000 cross works good for me alphas keypad _________________ | ....... .. | keyboard with position of wrists |_______________| during normal typing shown / / \ \ To use cursors (in spreadsheet etc.) slide right wrist over by 3 inches you'll find that your index finger lines up with the left-crsr, middle lines up with up-crsr, ring lines up with right-crsr and thumb (which was on space bar) lines up with down-crsr. Works good for me, but I've got small fingers... -Rico -- [NSA food: terrorist, cryptography, DES, drugs, CIA, secret, decode] [CSIS food: supermailbox, tuna, fiberglass coffins, Mirabel, microfiche] [Cat food: Nine Lives, Cat Chow, Meow Mix, Crave]
ccplumb@watmath.UUCP (10/25/87)
I, for one, prefer the vi-style four-in-a-row cursor keys. I find
+---+---+---+---+
| < | v | ^ | > |
+---+---+---+---+
...maps very well onto four side-by-side fingers.
I must admit, however, that I haven't found the A1000 layout that
horrible since learning the contortions.
Of course, I also played games on the C64 by pressing the right key
combinations to fake the presence of a joystick, so my mind and fingers
may be a bit more twisted than most...
--
-Colin (watmath!ccplumb)
Zippy says:
Why don't you ever enter and CONTESTS, Marvin??
Don't you know your own ZIPCODE?peter@sugar.UUCP (10/29/87)
+-----+-----+-----+-----+
|LEFT |DOWN |UP |RIGHT|
+-----+-----+-----+-----+
Anybody recognise this one? It's my favorite layout.
--
-- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter
-- Disclaimer: These U aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.colin@lingua.cltr.uq.OZ.AU (Colin Canfield) (01/06/91)
A while ago people who talking about 101 keyboards being modified to run on an amiga. Could somewhere tell me where these are availlable and how much... Thanks, Colin .