seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (12/15/90)
In-Reply-To: message from JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu DEC has said that they would offer SVr4 for their platforms. Apple isn't a major player in the workstation market, and NeXT isn't as of yet. IBM has been trying to stake its claim, but it has a very small market share. Sun Microsystems, who last I checked was still the industry leader, is whole-heartedly supporting OpenLook and SVr4. If Commodore is following the industry leader, they can't be doing too much wrong :) Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.5 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc RealWorld: Sean Cunningham ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil Voice: (512) 992-2810 INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com ____________________________________ // | * All opinions expressed herein | HELP KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/ | Copyright 1990 VISION GRAPHICS | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
torrie@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Evan James Torrie) (12/15/90)
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: >If Commodore is following the industry leader, they can't be doing too much >wrong :) Hmmm... IBM is the industry leader in the PC world. Does that mean that you'd prefer Commodore to ignore the Amiga and follow the Intel 80x86 PC line? Just because someone/something is the industry leader, doesn't mean that what they're doing is best. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "And remember, whatever you do, DON'T MENTION THE WAR!"
hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (12/16/90)
> Just because someone/something is the industry leader, doesn't mean >that what they're doing is best. Agreed. My favorite argument from IBM owners is that: "18 Million MS-DOS users can't be WRONG!" To which I always reply: "Tell that to post-World War II Nazi Germany. Hey! 18 Million Nazis can't be WRONG! Just because 18 Million people make the same mistake doesn't mean it's the intelligent thing to do." -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ "As if things weren't bad enough already...."| Founder of: "Evil Young Please excuse my ramblings as they come from | Mutants For A Better Tommorow. a diseased mind. -Moriland | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (12/17/90)
In article <4271@vela.acs.oakland.edu> hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) writes: [...] >Agreed. My favorite argument from IBM owners is that: "18 Million >MS-DOS users can't be WRONG!" > >To which I always reply: "Tell that to post-World War II Nazi Germany. >Hey! 18 Million Nazis can't be WRONG! Just because 18 Million people >make the same mistake doesn't mean it's the intelligent thing to do." [...] Oh, please. As a rabid pro-Amiga dude, I have to say this is a most horribly inappropriate analogy that is almost as insulting to MS-DOS users as it is to the memory of the Holocaust victims. Try to keep things in perspective, OK? -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (12/18/90)
In article <1990Dec15.061257.1867@Neon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Evan James Torrie) writes: >seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: > >>If Commodore is following the industry leader, they can't be doing too much >>wrong :) > > Hmmm... IBM is the industry leader in the PC world. Does that mean >that you'd prefer Commodore to ignore the Amiga and follow the Intel >80x86 PC line? Why not just take both worlds? The reason why Commodore in Europe did much better during the last years than in US was that we have also a strong part of the PC market here. Sales volume in this market is not so much different from the Amiga market. So we have a comfortable situation to satisfy our customers with whatever they want. Gee, why is there such a difference? Actually, we GET those PCs from Commodore US!?!? But we hear that marketing in US is strongly improving, so perhaps we'll debate Commodore 386's also here :-) (I should state strongly that I ONLY LOVE my Amiga!) -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (12/18/90)
In article <111596@convex.convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: > Oh, please. As a rabid pro-Amiga dude, I have to say this is a most > horribly inappropriate analogy that is almost as insulting to MS-DOS > users as it is to the memory of the Holocaust victims. Come on, don't you know that no Usenet discussion is complete until someone brings up Hitler and the Nazis? -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) (12/19/90)
In article <111596@convex.convex.com>, swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) says: > >In article <4271@vela.acs.oakland.edu> hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu >(Moriland) writes: > [...] >>Agreed. My favorite argument from IBM owners is that: "18 Million >>MS-DOS users can't be WRONG!" >> >>To which I always reply: "Tell that to post-World War II Nazi Germany. >>Hey! 18 Million Nazis can't be WRONG! Just because 18 Million people >>make the same mistake doesn't mean it's the intelligent thing to do." > [...] >Oh, please. As a rabid pro-Amiga dude, I have to say this is a most >horribly inappropriate analogy that is almost as insulting to MS-DOS >users as it is to the memory of the Holocaust victims. I disagree. First of all, the Nazi movement did not leave "the holocaust" as its only legacy; plenty of French, British, Americans, and especially Russians were also killed. The poster was not putting down or insulting "the memory of the holocaust," or at least I, for one, did not interpret it that way. In fact, I found his analogy to be disturbingly accurate. Blindly following the masses, assuming that "if everyone else does it, it must be the right thing" is a continuing phenomenon. The Germans DID do this in response to the Nazi movement. Do you think every German who joined the Nazi party specifically thought "hey, killing millions of people is a good idea"? Of course not. They just saw everyone on their block doing it and assumed it was proper. Some were also influenced by peer pressure, and others fell to the propaganda of Hitler's regime. What they ended up doing was, of course wrong, but they did not know that when they joined the party. I see MANY similarities between much of my previous paragraph and what is happening today in the consumer computer market. Obviously the outcome will not be as horrible, but does that fact make the analogy any less correct? No. Please look at the three comparisons: 1) Everyone else is doing it: I've heard SO many people say "I want an Amiga, but everyone else has PC's, so I think I'll get one of those." 2) Peer pressure: "You want to get an Amiga? Why? Just get a PC. You can't go wrong with one of those." 3) Media hype: TV ads for the PS/1 and the "multimedia" PS/2. Radio ads for "Dan was an IBM man, sold IBM's by the truckload." And now radio ads for Sears business centers selling MS-Dos compatible computers. If you hear one kind of ad all day every day for months, be it about the Nazi party or MS-DOS, it's going to sink in sooner or later. All three of the above methods/reasons/phenomena are common to both examples. That part of the analogy is logically correct, and as terrible as the holocaust was, I think that fact remains. It does not diminish or insult the holocause, in my opinion.
wasp@chumly.ka.sub.org (Walter Mildenberger) (12/19/90)
In article <111596@convex.convex.com>, Steve Warren writes: >In article <4271@vela.acs.oakland.edu> hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) writes: > [...] >>Agreed. My favorite argument from IBM owners is that: "18 Million >>MS-DOS users can't be WRONG!" >> >>To which I always reply: "Tell that to post-World War II Nazi Germany. >>Hey! 18 Million Nazis can't be WRONG! Just because 18 Million people >>make the same mistake doesn't mean it's the intelligent thing to do." > [...] >Oh, please. As a rabid pro-Amiga dude, I have to say this is a most >horribly inappropriate analogy that is almost as insulting to MS-DOS >users as it is to the memory of the Holocaust victims. Right ! Why not say: "Myriad Flies can't be wrong: sh*t MUST taste good !" :-) Regards --- Walter Mildenberger, Morgenstr. 55, W-7500 Karlsruhe 1, FRG SubNet: wasp@chumly.ka.sub.org ****** Voice: +49 721 385090 BitNet: 2 b announced soon * Discl.: none, I speak 4 myself
hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (12/27/90)
I must have missed the response to my post from the person you are
responding to, but thanx for saying what I would have said.
I didn't mean to insult anyone with my comments on Nazi Germany. It
was simply an anology that I saw as fitting. Most of the people I have
said it to did not take offense and agreed that I had a point, if
nothing else.
-Moriland
--
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
"All usual disclaimers apply..." | Founder Of: Evil Young
// | Mutants For A Better Tommorow.
\X/ "Only Amiga Makes It Possible." | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.eduhastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (12/27/90)
In article <111596@convex.convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes:
!>Agreed. My favorite argument from IBM owners is that: "18 Million
!>>MS-DOS users can't be WRONG!"
!>>
!>>To which I always reply: "Tell that to post-World War II Nazi Germany.
!>>Hey! 18 Million Nazis can't be WRONG! Just because 18 Million people
!>>make the same mistake doesn't mean it's the intelligent thing to do."
!> [...]
!>Oh, please. As a rabid pro-Amiga dude, I have to say this is a most
!>horribly inappropriate analogy that is almost as insulting to MS-DOS
!>users as it is to the memory of the Holocaust victims.
!>
!>Try to keep things in perspective, OK?
Ah. Here is that article I missed. My comments weren't meant to
offend, but I stick by my analogy. I think it put's things into
perspective quite well. If you look at the general attitude of most
businesses today you see a "Either it's MS-DOS compatable or we ignore
it." Mentality.
-Moriland
--
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
"All usual disclaimers apply..." | Founder Of: Evil Young
// | Mutants For A Better Tommorow.
\X/ "Only Amiga Makes It Possible." | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edun177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) (12/27/90)
In article <4427@vela.acs.oakland.edu> hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) writes: > >Ah. Here is that article I missed. My comments weren't meant to >offend, but I stick by my analogy. I think it put's things into >perspective quite well. If you look at the general attitude of most >businesses today you see a "Either it's MS-DOS compatable or we ignore >it." Mentality. > > -Moriland Arrggh. Ain't it the truth? My Amiga has been on loan to my father for the last 6 months (I've been too busy to use it), and I just got it back last Friday. Well, one of my roommates (not particularly up-to-date on non-MS-DOS machines...not even up-to-date on MS-DOS machines,actually) saw it whileI was using it and asked me, "Hey, is that like Windows?" (*whimper*) I responded, "Sort of, although this has been out a lot longer than *usable* Windows." (I know WIndows has been out for 7 years... why it took Microsoft 7 years to get the thing even close to useable is beyond me.) Anyway, he truly did not know what an Amiga was.... --Daryl Biberdorf, n177ac@tamuts.tamu.edu
bunny@cbnewsm.att.com (Laura A. Eppright) (12/27/90)
In article <4427@vela.acs.oakland.edu> hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) writes: > >Ah. Here is that article I missed. My comments weren't meant to >offend, but I stick by my analogy. I think it put's things into >perspective quite well. If you look at the general attitude of most >businesses today you see a "Either it's MS-DOS compatable or we ignore >it." Mentality. > I read a quote in one of the PC magazines a few years ago, and thought it was quite truthful. It was something like, "Elvis is like IBM. It doesn't matter what either of them put out, because it will sell well anyway." -- Laura A. Eppright AT&T, 30 Knightsbridge Rd Piscataway, NJ att!attbl!attmail!leppright
mikep@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mike Powell) (01/04/91)
I had an interesting experience this 'shopping' season... I dropped by Video Concepts (Now owned by TANDY corp. I'm told), which carries the A500 and a couple of Tandy machines... So I act dumb and get a salesman to help me out.... Me: What do ya have? VC: We have this Tandy thingie with this and that and the other... Me: Oh, well what about this one??? (I point to the A500) VC: Oh, that one is not an IBM compatible... (as if I asked to see IBM compatibles or something) Me: (acting VERY stupid..) What does that mean? VC: Well, it can't run IBM software.... Me: Oh. Can the Tandy run Amiga software? VC: (He now has an amazingly bewildered look.... the gears must be turning as I can see some smoke beginning to pour from his ears... Obviously, he cannot fathom this question... then after about a minute goes by he says: ) "well, no." Me: Which has the better software? VC: (He has now pulled himself together, and has a question that he can answer...) The IBM! Because there is more software for it.... Me: Thanks for the info.......... I suppost it's this way all over.......... -Mike P-
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (01/06/91)
In-Reply-To: message from dave@exactus.UUCP Another ms-dos package you can add to the list of IFF supporters is Deluxe Paint Animation (probubly a replacement for DP][ Enhanced). Something I find _very_ disturbing is that EA added some features to this package that we don't have for our machines. To be specific, morphing of animbrushes. I've been leary of EA ever since they started producing packages for the Mac...Deluxe MIDI isn't available for the Amiga, but the "Deluxe" series was started on the Amiga. And EA isn't willing to give DMCS a long overdue workover. Now this. I love DPaint ]I[, but wonder about the future of EA products for the Amiga. Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.5 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc RealWorld: Sean Cunningham ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil Voice: (512) 992-2810 INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com ____________________________________ // | * All opinions expressed herein | HELP KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/ | Copyright 1990 VISION GRAPHICS | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
jerry@truevision.com (Jerry Thompson) (01/07/91)
In article <730031@hpmwngf.HP.COM> mikep@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mike Powell) writes: > > I had an interesting experience this 'shopping' season... I dropped > by Video Concepts (Now owned by TANDY corp. I'm told), which carries > the A500 and a couple of Tandy machines... So I act dumb and get > a salesman to help me out.... [Stuff about dense salesman deleted] > I suppost it's this way all over.......... > > -Mike P- Well, the Video Concepts salesman I talked to here in Indy seemed quite willing to sell me an A500. They had the Consumer Guide computer issue opened to the page rating the A500 as the best computer under $1000. He seemed to think the Amiga was by far the best machine for video, but said they didn't sell too many because people didn't usually come into a video store to buy a computer. They also don't carry any Amiga software. I thought it was a hoot that TANDY's video store was forced to carry Amigas. -- Jerry Thompson | // checks ___________ | "I'm into S&M, I loved the peace and solitude | \\ // and | | | | Sarcasm and so much, I invited my friends. | \X/ balances /_\ | /_\ | Mass Sarcasm."
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (01/07/91)
mikep@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mike Powell) writes: > I had an interesting experience this 'shopping' season... I dropped > by Video Concepts (Now owned by TANDY corp. I'm told), which carries > the A500 and a couple of Tandy machines... So I act dumb and get > a salesman to help me out.... [salesman tries to sell clone] > I suppost it's this way all over.......... It's that way anywhere you have salespeople, in any kind of store, I'm afraid.... they will always push the system/car/stereo/speakers/ computer/tools/whatever that they themselves are most familiar with. Especially these days, it's hard to find salespeople who have the time or inclination to learn about stuff they themselves don't own or use. In the old computer store days, things seemed different in this respect. Oooops. Falling into a "good old days" trap again ;-). best - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>