JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) (12/13/90)
>>IBM's AIX, Apple's A/UX, and NeXT are not embracing this [SysVR4] >>standard. Workstation vendors are. > >I couldn't resist interjecting: _some_ workstation vendors are. >As you note, IBM (RS/6000) isn't. HP/Apollo isn't. DEC (to the >best of my knowledge) isn't. Anyone else notice that this isn't the first time Commodore has adopted an impending "standard" only to be screwed when nobody else adopted it? It sure happened with the IFF "standard"... :-( Kurt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- || Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || With. Without. And who'll || || 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || deny it's what the fighting's || || Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || all about? - Pink Floyd || || jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------|| || jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe || -----------------------------------------------------------------------
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (12/13/90)
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: > Anyone else notice that this isn't the first time Commodore has > adopted an impending "standard" only to be screwed when nobody > else adopted it? It sure happened with the IFF "standard"... > :-( Kurt Greetings. You hit on one of my favorite topics (standards). In this case, I don't think they got "screwed". It was a good idea to adopt any standardized interchange format. Didn't have to be IFF; could've been something totally different. As long as there was a publicly available definition, that's all that counted. [ We've adopted IFF for our new 68K/OS-9 machines. Again, not because it's anything truly special, but because it was easier than reinventing the wheel ;-) and we think it's important to have as many preordained standards as possible; it helps development efforts. And altho we'll be using CD-I and Apple style chunks for most things (many of the chunks Amigans are familiar with, are optimized for Amiga use, y'see), the coming public availability of the formats will allow people to write conversion programs (we already convert and play Amiga ANIMs and sounds, for example)... to the benefit of all sides. Just as people do with various sound and GIF files now.] But again, it doesn't matter what the format is. The key is "publicly availability". Without that, you have no useful standard (here's where I go into high gear on two favorite subtopics ;-) ... Hypercard: Apple went so far as to legally protect the bitmap encoding. Dumb. Dumb. As a result, other platforms and programs use something else. Result: the user loses, due to not being able to share work/data. Future result: someone will eventually come up with a publicly useable "hyper" format, and it'll be adopted by everyone else. Apple misses another chance to become the standard-maker. No "vision", just lawyers ;-). Amiga ANIMs type J: That's the secret encoding in Sculpt/Animate 3D files. While I have nothing against programs that have their own formats, any ANIMs _posted_ should be in a public format (in this case, ANIM 5). It totally defeats the purpose of IFF to post data that can't be used in other programs. Back to the main topic: CBM made an okay choice. What else would you have them pick? There wasn't much else at the time, anyway <g>. Mac PICT format? Some old IBM format? Nah. best - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> PS: If I had to bet, I'd guess that the IBM/Microsoft RIFF format will become the dominant future standard for exchanging multimedia files, at least. The ANSI formats are (as usual) taking too long in creation (altho we made sure we had people on the committee :-).
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (12/14/90)
In article <90346.222925JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu> JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: > >Anyone else notice that this isn't the first time Commodore has >adopted an impending "standard" only to be screwed when nobody >else adopted it? It sure happened with the IFF "standard"... >:-( Huh? The IFF *IS* a standard well alive and further spreading. If it would be limited to the Amiga world, who would care? It sure does the Amiga so much good things that we can live comfortably with it and further watch the rest of the world fighting with their thousands of "standards". You brought up an interesting topic, but sure IFF is not a very good example for it. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
h112706@assari.tut.fi (Herranen Henrik) (12/14/90)
In article <90346.222925JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu> JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: >Anyone else notice that this isn't the first time Commodore has >adopted an impending "standard" only to be screwed when nobody >else adopted it? It sure happened with the IFF "standard"... >:-( What are you talking about? I feel it's kind of nice that I may transfer bitmap pictures and animations between practically ALL Amiga graphic programs. So how can you claim that IFF is screwed when it was clear from the first day that it was intended to be an internal Amiga standard. And if someone else happens to use it, what would be more fun? I use bitmap pictures as an example, becouse that really shows how powerful an internal standard is. Look at the I*M compatible computers. You have N graphic formats and N * N conversion programs. Not funny, IMHO. Sorry, if this sounds too much like a flame, but this is my opinion about IFF. And no flames about my English, I'll argue about it only in Finnish :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >|| Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || With. Without. And who'll || >|| 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || deny it's what the fighting's || >|| Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || all about? - Pink Floyd || >|| jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------|| >|| jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe || > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Henrik 'Leopold' Herranen Internet: h112706@lehtori.tut.fi Snail Mail: TTKK/Paarakennuksen neuvonta/PL527/33101 Tampere/Finland "I don't need no arms around me, I don't need no drugs to calm me" - PF 1979
dave@exactus.UUCP (Dave) (12/31/90)
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > Huh? The IFF *IS* a standard well alive and further spreading. > If it would be limited to the Amiga world, who would care? There are some programs for the IBM that do support the IFF standard, among them, the best graphics converter I have ever seen, Hijaak 2.0 not only converts IFF to just about any format (including PCX, GIF, TIFF, MacPaint, EPS, HPGL, WPG just to name a few), it does the convertion in just a few seconds. Very amazing program. And let's not forget that Electronic Arts has Deluxe Paint II Enhanced available for the PC, which is IFF compatible. Another program that does a job at handling IFF pictures is the Shareware Picture Viewer VPIC. Dave +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | David Salas | Exactus : David Salas | | President | Genie : EXAC-DAVE | | Exactus Information Services | UUCP : exactus!dave | | (707) 524-2548 @ 2400 (8N1) | Fax : (707) 524-2546 | | (707) 524-2553 @ 9600/1400 (V32/HST) | Voice : (707) 524-2547 | +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (01/06/91)
In article <406Zu1w163w@exactus.UUCP> dave@exactus.UUCP (Dave) writes: >peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > >> Huh? The IFF *IS* a standard well alive and further spreading. >> If it would be limited to the Amiga world, who would care? > >There are some programs for the IBM that do support the IFF standard, >among them, the best graphics converter I have ever seen, Hijaak 2.0 >not only converts IFF to just about any format (including PCX, GIF, TIFF, >MacPaint, EPS, HPGL, WPG just to name a few), it does the convertion in >just a few seconds. Very amazing program. Actually, PC programs are supporting IFF but only the simple IFF modes like 2 to 32 colors. PC programs do not, in general, understand EHB or HAM files and also know nothing of IFF24. To convert a 32 color IFF to a 32 color PCX should not take *more* than a few seconds. >And let's not forget that Electronic Arts has Deluxe Paint II Enhanced >available for the PC, which is IFF compatible. DPIIe also has its own 8 bit variant of IFF which is not backwards compatible with IFF. They use it when saving 256 color images. This is fully supported in our TAD and ADPro. >Another program that does a job at handling IFF pictures is the Shareware >Picture Viewer VPIC. Again, very limited IFF support. The best bet for Amiga to/from Anything image conversion is our ADPro. Recently released, it comes with input and output support for many non-Amiga formats and still others are available optionally. And of course, it does understand all IFF variations. pk -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ``We look for things. Things that make us go.'' UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry CIS: 76004,1765 PLINK: pk-asdg
dave@exactus.UUCP (David Salas) (01/08/91)
> >There are some programs for the IBM that do support the IFF standard, > >among them, the best graphics converter I have ever seen, Hijaak 2.0 > >not only converts IFF to just about any format (including PCX, GIF, TIFF, > >MacPaint, EPS, HPGL, WPG just to name a few), it does the convertion in > >just a few seconds. Very amazing program. > perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: > Actually, PC programs are supporting IFF but only the simple IFF modes > like 2 to 32 colors. PC programs do not, in general, understand EHB or > HAM files and also know nothing of IFF24. I believe that Hijaak 2.01 DOES understand IFF24. I could be wrong though. > > To convert a 32 color IFF to a 32 color PCX should not take *more* than > a few seconds. No argument there, but some of the IFF->GIF converters I have seen on the Amiga are extremely slow, and do not work as good as Hijaak 2.0x. Does AdPro support GIF? > DPIIe also has its own 8 bit variant of IFF which is not backwards > compatible with IFF. They use it when saving 256 color images. This > is fully supported in our TAD and ADPro. Do you mean that ADPro can convert DP's 8 bit format into HAM, EHB or any other IFF format? > The best bet for Amiga to/from Anything image conversion is our ADPro. > Recently released, it comes with input and output support for many non-Amiga > formats and still others are available optionally. And of course, it does > understand all IFF variations. > > pk > Is GIF and EPS among those other formats?!? If so, what's the average time for converting IFF to GIF and viceversa? Dave +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | David Salas | Exactus : David Salas | | President | Genie : EXAC-DAVE | | Exactus Information Services | UUCP : exactus!dave | | (707) 524-2548 @ 2400 (8N1) | Fax : (707) 524-2546 | | (707) 524-2553 @ 9600/1400 (V32/HST) | Voice : (707) 524-2547 | +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+