dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (12/30/90)
Hello... I am running JR-Comm, V1.01 (unregistered) to acess the school's Un*x box. Upon login, I tell the computer I have a VT100. This works fine for more and rn. It does not work well for GnuEmacs :(. Specifically, when I do block inserts or deletes, the screen is not updated properly. If I do a CTRL/L (screen-refresh), the screen is displayed properly. Also, the backspace char erases the character it backs over (again, only on the screen). So, my question is: what can I do to fix it? I remember hearing somewhere that there is a termcap for the Amiga. Where is it? I really like JR-Comm, and I really like GnuEmacs -- I would be loath to give up either. Any help would be appreciated beyond the ability of mere mortal man to comprehend... Dave Schaumann | My folks went to uunet.uu.net, but all they got dave@cs.arizona.edu | me was this lousy .sig... And now here's something we hope you'll *really* like:
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (12/30/90)
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) in <600@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> writes:
I am running JR-Comm, V1.01 (unregistered) to acess the school's Un*x
box. Upon login, I tell the computer I have a VT100. This works fine
for more and rn. It does not work well for GnuEmacs :(.
Specifically, when I do block inserts or deletes, the screen is not
updated properly. If I do a CTRL/L (screen-refresh), the screen is
displayed properly. Also, the backspace char erases the character it
backs over (again, only on the screen).
So, my question is: what can I do to fix it? I remember hearing
somewhere that there is a termcap for the Amiga. Where is it? I
really like JR-Comm, and I really like GnuEmacs -- I would be loath to
give up either. Any help would be appreciated beyond the ability of
mere mortal man to comprehend...
Sigh. Don't people read previous postings? Almost NO terminal emulator for
ANY computer will properly emulate a VT100 (as tested using vttest). The one
I use on the Amiga is Handshake which works PERFECTLY with GNU EMACS, EMACS on
a DEC-20, VAX/VMS' SMG screen applications, etc etc.
It would be less trouble for YOU to simply toss JR-Comm and get Handshake.
If you're really set in your ways, you will have to determine by trial-and-
error what brain-damaged subset of VT100 capabilities that JR-Comm does support
and write your own termcap or terminfo description file, and call it something
OTHER than "vt100". Suggest you get a copy of the Nutsell "terminfo and
termcap" book to help you. You "may" be able to start from the vt100 entry
and delete EVERYTHING dealing with line and character insert and delete, and
region scrolling for starters.
Another alternative, though I haven't tried it, is the commercially-available
A-Talk-III package for the Amiga; its author, Marco Papa, claims it does pass
the vttest suite, so it should work for your intended application.
As a hint, once you have a proper emulator, you're better off specifying "dt80"
instead of "vt100" due to fewer pad and fill chars sent to the terminal. I
have real VT100 and DT80 (Datamedia) terminals with which I've run my tests,
but I exclusively use Handshake nowadays.
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (12/31/90)
In article <600@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) writes:
!>Hello...
!>
!>I am running JR-Comm, V1.01 (unregistered) to acess the school's Un*x box.
!>Upon login, I tell the computer I have a VT100. This works fine for more and
!>rn. It does not work well for GnuEmacs :(. Specifically, when I do block
!>inserts or deletes, the screen is not updated properly. If I do a CTRL/L
!>(screen-refresh), the screen is displayed properly. Also, the backspace
!>char erases the character it backs over (again, only on the screen).
!>
!>So, my question is: what can I do to fix it? I remember hearing somewhere that
!>there is a termcap for the Amiga. Where is it? I really like JR-Comm, and I
!>really like GnuEmacs -- I would be loath to give up either. Any help would
!>be appreciated beyond the ability of mere mortal man to comprehend...
!>
Hmmm. I'm using JRComm1.01 (Registered Version) with VT100 with no
problems using GnuMacs, etc. Perhaps there is a small bug fix between
the unregistered and registered versions?
-Moriland
--
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
"All usual disclaimers apply..." | Founder Of: Evil Young
// | Mutants For A Better Tommorow.
\X/ "Only Amiga Makes It Possible." | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edudave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (12/31/90)
In article <4468@vela.acs.oakland.edu> hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) writes: >In article <600@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) writes: >!>Hello... >!> >!>I am running JR-Comm, V1.01 (unregistered) to acess the school's Un*x box. >!>Upon login, I tell the computer I have a VT100. This works fine for more and >!>rn. It does not work well for GnuEmacs :(. Specifically, when I do block I figured out my problem. I didn't have my terminal emulation set to 'VT100'. I discovered it only moments after making the original post. My only defense is that I just switched from V0.94a. I would not have bothered to post this, except I do not want to start rumors that Mr. Radigan's fine product has major difficulties with it's VT100 emulation. It works fine (once you turn it on...) Dave Schaumann | You are in a twisty maze of little dave@cs.arizona.edu | C statements, all different. We want 2.0! We want 2.0! We want 2.0! We want 2.0! We want 2.0!
jimb@faatcrl.UUCP (Jim Burwell) (12/31/90)
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) in <600@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> writes: > I am running JR-Comm, V1.01 (unregistered) to acess the school's Un*x > box. Upon login, I tell the computer I have a VT100. This works fine > for more and rn. It does not work well for GnuEmacs :(. [ stuff deleted ] >Sigh. Don't people read previous postings? Almost NO terminal emulator for >ANY computer will properly emulate a VT100 (as tested using vttest). The one >I use on the Amiga is Handshake which works PERFECTLY with GNU EMACS, EMACS on >a DEC-20, VAX/VMS' SMG screen applications, etc etc. Hmm... I installed Vttest on our system here so that Jack could fix his Vt-100 emulation bugs. He did so a while ago, and it passes the test, except for 132 column mode which he says is "not worth implementing" (or something to that effect). I've run the test several times myself, and it passes. I've never had 1.01 screw up under GNU Emacs myself, although I don't use it a whole lot (just when I'm forced to by a mail program or something, or for dired). There ARE a few corrections Jack has made since 1.01 though. It should be perfect next revision. C'ya, Jim -- UUCP: ...!rutgers!faatcrl!jimb Internet: jimb@faatcrl.UUCP Under brooding skys and watchful eyes On convulsive seas of false urgency We walk empty corridors in vain - "No Exit", Fate's Warning
rpburry@ncs.dnd.ca (Paul Burry) (01/01/91)
In article <4468@vela.acs.oakland.edu> hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) writes: |In article <600@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) writes: |!>Hello... |!> |!>I am running JR-Comm, V1.01 (unregistered) to acess the school's Un*x box. |!>Upon login, I tell the computer I have a VT100. This works fine for more and |!>rn. It does not work well for GnuEmacs :(. Specifically, when I do block |!>inserts or deletes, the screen is not updated properly. If I do a CTRL/L |!>(screen-refresh), the screen is displayed properly. Also, the backspace |!>char erases the character it backs over (again, only on the screen). |!> |!>So, my question is: what can I do to fix it? I remember hearing somewhere that |!>there is a termcap for the Amiga. Where is it? I really like JR-Comm, and I |!>really like GnuEmacs -- I would be loath to give up either. Any help would |!>be appreciated beyond the ability of mere mortal man to comprehend... |!> | |Hmmm. I'm using JRComm1.01 (Registered Version) with VT100 with no |problems using GnuMacs, etc. Perhaps there is a small bug fix between |the unregistered and registered versions? | | -Moriland Actually, I think that Dave has mistakenly configured the VT100 emulation to use "Destructive Backspace". My relevant settings are: VT-100 Swap DEL & BS (and I also have stty intr ^C erase ^?) Wrap lines (I'm not sure if this is really necessary) Cursor blink (I really wish there was a blinking block, but...) Optimized scroll (this doesn't seem to hurt) CR xlate: none LF xlate: none EOL out: CR and EVERYTHING on our Ultrix box, ie. emacs, vi, rn, ..., works perfectly. No, you don't need Handshake (does it support ZMODEM yet?). Hope I have been help, Paul -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Burry Voice: (613)-991-7325 Internet: rpburry@ncs.dnd.ca Fax: (613)-991-7323 UUCP: ..!{uunet,cunews}!ncs.dnd.ca!rpburry
ben@servalan.uucp (Ben Mesander) (01/01/91)
In article <37397@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) in <600@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> writes: > > I am running JR-Comm, V1.01 (unregistered) to acess the school's Un*x > box. Upon login, I tell the computer I have a VT100. This works fine > for more and rn. It does not work well for GnuEmacs :(. > Specifically, when I do block inserts or deletes, the screen is not > updated properly. If I do a CTRL/L (screen-refresh), the screen is > displayed properly. Also, the backspace char erases the character it > backs over (again, only on the screen). > [ ... ] > >Sigh. Don't people read previous postings? Almost NO terminal emulator for >ANY computer will properly emulate a VT100 (as tested using vttest). The one >I use on the Amiga is Handshake which works PERFECTLY with GNU EMACS, EMACS on >a DEC-20, VAX/VMS' SMG screen applications, etc etc. > >It would be less trouble for YOU to simply toss JR-Comm and get Handshake. The terminal emulator named "VT100" (how imaginative...) is a good enough subset of the VT100 terminal to run GNU Emacs and all other full-screen software I've tried. VLT will also do it. However, I have heard that Handshake has superior emulation to the previous two. I use VLT a lot, because I need Tek 4105 emulation. ben@epmooch.UUCP
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (01/01/91)
First, I'm happy to hear that Dave P. Schaumann solved his difficulty with JR-Comm V1.01, and am pleasantly surprised to hear that Jack Radigan enhanced the "base" D.J.James' COMM program so well. As far as "VT100" compatibilty goes, if a program doesn't 100% pass the Per Lindberg "vttest" VT100 validation suite, then a program is NOT compatible. "VT100" compatibilty has become a de facto "standard" to which many terminals and emulators aspire due to DEC's successful marketing in this regards and the presence of many terminal clone manufacturers. Even AT&T saw the need to make SVR3.* curses specifically VT100 compatible in terms of the line-drawing char set for boxes. At my office we have REAL DEC VT100, VT220 and VT240 terminals, and also Datamedia DT80 and Falco TS1 clones. And we have IBM-PCs, Macs and Amigas. Nothing on the Macs or IBM-PCs will properly emulate a VT100; NOTHING. Handshake on the Amiga does, and so apparently does A-Talk-III and now, presumably, JR-Comm. But I'll reserve judgment on those last two until I *see* them do 80 and 132 columns along with double wide and double-wide/-high characters and pass every part of the Per Lindberg validation suite. You may scoff at the need for FULL VT100 (and not just ANSI) compatibility until you encounter the tens of thousands of programs which need the VT100 capabilities, and NOT just on DEC computers. What baffles me is why it seems to be so difficult for "emulator" writers to get it right, especially using an MC680x0-family CPU. A real DEC VT100 has a dinky 8080A CPU, and the Datamedia DT80 uses an 8085 with only a few 4Kx8 EPROMs; the Datamedia DT80 is actually a better VT100 than DEC's own VT100! About 8 years ago (1983) I wrote a 100%-compatible VT100-emulator in assembler which fit in an 8Kx8 EPROM for an MC6803 CPU; just requires a straightforward fsm (finite-state-machine; state transition matrix; decision table; whatever) to parse the ESCape codes, branch off to subroutines, and do the right thing. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
anlhille@rose.ucs.indiana.edu (Joseph Hillenburg) (01/01/91)
In article <37439@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes... |First, I'm happy to hear that Dave P. Schaumann solved his difficulty with |JR-Comm V1.01, and am pleasantly surprised to hear that Jack Radigan enhanced |the "base" D.J.James' COMM program so well. | Nope...JR-Comm was written completely from scratch. |Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ | // Joseph Hillenburg, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group | | \X/ anlhille@ucs.indiana.edu anlhille@iurose.BITNET | | "Have fun folks. It's the last time you'll be seeing this place" | +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/01/91)
jimb@faatcrl.UUCP (Jim Burwell) writes: >thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >> Sigh. Don't people read previous postings? Almost NO terminal >> emulator for ANY computer will properly emulate a VT100 (as tested >> using vttest). The one I use on the Amiga is Handshake which works >> PERFECTLY with GNU EMACS, EMACS on a DEC-20, VAX/VMS' SMG screen >> applications, etc etc. >Hmm... I installed Vttest on our system here so that Jack could fix his >Vt-100 emulation bugs. He did so a while ago, and it passes the test, >except for 132 column mode which he says is "not worth implementing" (or >something to that effect). It really isn't. First, the Amiga, barely capable of showing 132 columns in doggy type with overscan, shouldn't be trying to do that anyway. Second, the 132 column capability in the VT100 was a hardware option, so no program not designed around it should ever require it. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
U3364521@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lou Cavallo) (01/01/91)
G'day, Kent Paul Dolan (xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG ) writes: * jimb@faatcrl.UUCP (Jim Burwell) writes: * [...] *>Hmm... I installed Vttest on our system here so that Jack could fix his *>Vt-100 emulation bugs. He did so a while ago, and it passes the test, *>except for 132 column mode which he says is "not worth implementing" (or *>something to that effect). * * It really isn't. First, the Amiga, barely capable of showing 132 columns * in doggy type with overscan, shouldn't be trying to do that anyway. * Second, the 132 column capability in the VT100 was a hardware option, so * no program not designed around it should ever require it. * * Kent, the man from xanth. * <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG* <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> I agree with Kent regarding the cruddy 132 column font rendition on the usual monitors that most Amiga owners have (such as myself). {But then again there are bad 132 col fonts for emulators and then there are better, VT100-132 is a version of VT100 with a better/readable font than Handshake IMHO.} However I can attest anecdotally that an as an everyday VAX user {please, I'm aware of that status :-)} I often want to use 132 col mode. Moreover, I have a friend that I have loaned my Amiga 1000 to who needs it as a cheap terminal that now uses Handshake exclusively for this feature. I don't have JR-Comm but its not having a 132 col mode is a large minus, from my own and my friends perspective {if he were here to be asked of course :-), as he's not I offer his proxy :-)} ... and I can say I'd like to use JR-Comm because I've heard good things about it's interface etc. yours truly, Lou Cavallo.
sirotto@oak.circa.ufl.edu (Mike Cerrato) (01/02/91)
>Sigh. Don't people read previous postings? Almost NO terminal emulator for >ANY computer will properly emulate a VT100 (as tested using vttest). The one >I use on the Amiga is Handshake which works PERFECTLY with GNU EMACS, EMACS on >a DEC-20, VAX/VMS' SMG screen applications, etc etc. > >It would be less trouble for YOU to simply toss JR-Comm and get Handshake. > >If you're really set in your ways, you will have to determine by trial-and- >error what brain-damaged subset of VT100 capabilities that JR-Comm does support >and write your own termcap or terminfo description file, and call it something >OTHER than "vt100". Suggest you get a copy of the Nutsell "terminfo and >termcap" book to help you. You "may" be able to start from the vt100 entry >and delete EVERYTHING dealing with line and character insert and delete, and >region scrolling for starters. I don't know what version of Jr-Comm you have been using, but I have *NEVER* had any problems with VT100 emulation on Jr-Comm1.01. I have been using it with our VAX cluster and Emacs and our UNIX system and Emacs for 6 months now. On the rare occasion I have used Handshake, I found that it would not switch between the application and normal cursor keys and keypad. That can be quite annoying (yes, for some odd reason, I like my cursor keys to work). It also doesn't support the VT220's redefinible characters. ___ __ |\ |\ | / \ SirOtto -- Gallant Knight of a rather large, squarish | \ | \ | / table someplace in the West Panhandle of Florida. | \ | \ |--< | \| \|___\____/ Michael E. Cerrato -- University of Florida Internet: sirotto%maple.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!sirotto%maple.decnet
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/02/91)
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >First, I'm happy to hear that Dave P. Schaumann solved his difficulty with >JR-Comm V1.01, and am pleasantly surprised to hear that Jack Radigan enhanced >the "base" D.J.James' COMM program so well. I really wish you'd do some investgating before you post such erroneous information. JR-Comm is completely original, it is not "based" on any previous work. I wouldn't be comfortable asking for a registration fee if it was. >As far as "VT100" compatibilty goes, if a program doesn't 100% pass the Per >Lindberg "vttest" VT100 validation suite, then a program is NOT compatible. Have *you* tested JR-Comm with it for yourself? I would appreciate either the source to this program or your results so that I can fix any remaining problems that may (or may not) exist. >At my office we have REAL DEC VT100, VT220 and VT240 terminals, and also >Datamedia DT80 and Falco TS1 clones. And we have IBM-PCs, Macs and Amigas. >Nothing on the Macs or IBM-PCs will properly emulate a VT100; NOTHING. >Handshake on the Amiga does, and so apparently does A-Talk-III and now, >presumably, JR-Comm. But I'll reserve judgment on those last two until I >*see* them do 80 and 132 columns along with double wide and double-wide/-high >characters and pass every part of the Per Lindberg validation suite. Double width/height is there. 132 isn't, by me directly, but if you add the proper fonts it would work. I can't see the use for 132 columns with the Amiga since you need 660 pixels at a minimum for 5 pixel wide characters with only 4 allowed for the character itself since one is required for spacing. -jack-
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (01/02/91)
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) in <1991Jan1.053325.937@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> writes: [...] It really isn't. First, the Amiga, barely capable of showing 132 columns in doggy type with overscan, shouldn't be trying to do that anyway. Second, the 132 column capability in the VT100 was a hardware option, so no program not designed around it should ever require it. Re: "...barely capable of showing 132 columns ...", depends what monitor and what amount of overscan you're using; I have no problems with any of A1070, A1080 or CDP-1302 monitors. Re: "...132 column capability in the VT100 was a hardware option...", yeah, sure. EVERY VT100, from day 1, could do 132 columns. EVERY VT100. If you didn't have the extra RAM, you'd only get 14 lines (e.g. 132x14) instead of 24, but, again, EVERY VT100 would do 132 columns. Additionally, what many people seem to overlook, perhaps due to their not ever having used a VT100 or any VT100-compliant application programs, is that the VT100 has four (4) screen resolutions (NOT counting interlace (yeah, let's not forget that a real VT100 supplies RS-170 broadcast quality video output on one of its two BNC video jacks)): 80 x 24 with standard characters in 80-column mode 132 x 24 with standard characters in 132-column mode 40 x 24 with double-wide characters in 80-column mode 66 x 24 with double-wide characters in 132-column mode Continuing ... jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) in <654@faatcrl.UUCP> writes: >First, I'm happy to hear that Dave P. Schaumann solved his difficulty >with JR-Comm V1.01, and am pleasantly surprised to hear that Jack >Radigan enhanced >the "base" D.J.James' COMM program so well. I really wish you'd do some investgating before you post such erroneous information. JR-Comm is completely original, it is not "based" on any previous work. I wouldn't be comfortable asking for a registration fee if it was. Fine. You've cleared up what apparently wasn't obvious. EVERY other "-COMM" program for the Amiga has been apparently based on the original "COMM" program. >As far as "VT100" compatibilty goes, if a program doesn't 100% pass >the Per Lindberg "vttest" VT100 validation suite, then a program is >NOT compatible. Have *you* tested JR-Comm with it for yourself? I would appreciate either the source to this program or your results so that I can fix any remaining problems that may (or may not) exist. No, I've not tested JR-Comm since I don't have it. Eight (8) times during the past 4 years I've posted the information where to get vttest. It's on a Fish Disk and is also at EVERY comp.sources.* archive site I've seen. Since this appears to be your first post to Usenet, I'll be charitable and include (again) the access info to vttest (at the end of this posting). Double width/height is there. 132 isn't, by me directly, but if you add the proper fonts it would work. I can't see the use for 132 columns with the Amiga since you need 660 pixels at a minimum for 5 pixel wide characters with only 4 allowed for the character itself since one is required for spacing. -jack- Being a bit obstinate, aren't you? I don't know of anyone who'd have difficulty displaying 660 pixels across one's Amiga screen; I even do that at my office with the crappy A1080 monitors and it's usable. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. I hope, for your sake and with your attitude, you never post to sci.skeptic or talk.origins! :-) :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] ==================== begin included material ==================== Path: portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: VT100 tester Message-ID: <36336@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 90 04:08:50 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1946@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> Portal-Origin: Usenet Portal-Type: text Lines: 107 Portal-Bytes: 4228 Portal-Location: 16154.3.3663.2 arutherf@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Andrew Rutherford) in <1946@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> writes: A couple of days back, someone posted to the net regarding an interactive vt100 compatibility tester, and claimed this could be found at your local archiver. Unfortunatly, I have lost the article, and now have need of this tester, and can't find the program anywhere. Can someone please email me the address and directory of an archiver that has this program? Sorry, that was my original posting and I neglected to indicate where the test was to be found (since its mention was only incidental to the gist of the message thread). Enclosed is a copy of one of my prior postings in this regards. The program's name is "vttest" and can also be found, as I discovered recently, at the archive site wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (IP 26.2.0.74). And, note, it's also on a "Fish Disk". Sheesh, the nerve of some people who recently claimed the "old" AmigaLibDisks should be tossed out with the fishwrap (no pun intended :-). An archive is an archive is an archive, and should be preserved FOREVER. Period. What would you think of the Library of Congress tossing out the Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution simply because they're old and have been "amended"? Double sheesh. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] -------------------- begin enclosed material -------------------- Relay-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site portal.UUcp Posting-Version: version 11.1 Portal gateway; site portal Path: portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,unix-pc.general Subject: Per Lindberg VT100 Validation Suite Message-ID: <25019@cup.portal.com> Date: 14 Dec 89 10:06:13 GMT Date-Received: 14 Dec 89 10:14:05 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 59 Xref: portal comp.sys.att:9095 unix-pc.general:4838 Portal-Origin: Usenet Portal-Type: text Portal-Bytes: 2157 Portal-Location: 1074.3.3641.1 Many have asked me how they could acquire the "Per Lindberg VT100 Validation Suite" test program I mentioned in a posting pertaining to something else. Due to an email backlog, I'm presently unable to answer personally, hence this net posting to unix-pc.general and comp.sys.att. If you have uucp and/or FTP access to uunet.uu.net: /usr/spool/ftp/comp.sources.unix/volume7/vttest: total 35 -r--r--r-- 1 rsalz 8824 Dec 1 1986 part1.Z -r--r--r-- 1 rsalz 26029 Dec 1 1986 part2.Z If you have uucp and/or FTP access to tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (aka osu-cis): comp.sources.unix/Volume07: -rw-r--r-- 1 bob 9016 Sep 2 1986 vttest.1.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 bob 26192 Sep 2 1986 vttest.2.Z If you have access to the Fred Fish Freely Redistributable Software Library for the Amiga: This is disk 35 of the freely distributable AMIGA software library. Vttest Program to test compatibility of vt100-compatible terminals and terminal emulators. Requires the resources of a Unix system to test an Amiga hosted vt100 emulator. (I haven't yet found one that even comes close to passing this test!). Author: Per Lindberg If you have access to any other archive site of comp.sources.unix (or the older mod.sources), you can also easily find it there. And, finally, here is the header from the original posting by Rich $alz to mod.sources as I grabbed it over 3 years ago: Article 388 of mod.sources: Relay-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site well.UUCP Path: well!ptsfa!lll-lcc!lll-crg!seismo!mirror!sources-request From: sources-request@mirror.UUCP Newsgroups: mod.sources Subject: v07i016: Test VT100 features, Part01/02 Message-ID: <228@mirror.UUCP> Date: 2 Sep 86 21:07:43 GMT Date-Received: 3 Sep 86 08:54:23 GMT Sender: rs@mirror.UUCP Organization: Mirror Systems, Cambridge MA Lines: 622 Approved: mirror!rs Submitted by: seismo!enea!suadb!lindberg (Per Lindberg QZ) Mod.sources: Volume 7, Issue 16 Archive-name: vttest/Part01 [ See my comments at the beginning of the README. -r$ ] Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] -------------------- end enclosed material -------------------- ==================== end included material ====================
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/02/91)
In article <654@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: > Double width/height is there. 132 isn't, by me directly, but if you > add the proper fonts it would work. I can't see the use for 132 > columns with the Amiga since you need 660 pixels at a minimum for 5 > pixel wide characters with only 4 allowed for the character itself > since one is required for spacing. Hm. Was it Mike Farren's Crystal Quest that has a Tiny font with all the uppercase done already, or was that Keef the Thief? Anyway, such fonts exist. Anyway, yep. That's still doable; the lowercase characters won't be too pretty, but the uppercase will be OK. Its only 20 of the possible 78(?) extra pixels of overscan, which means if you were running on your own screen, and borderless you could do it pretty easily, and it would be a handy mode. Moreover, if you (now or later) make JRComm compatible with one of the better resolution optional displays, you could do a spectacularly good job at 1024^2. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- Potting along with vt100r2.4 forever after, though. Does all I've ever needed; why upgrade?
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/02/91)
In <654@faatcrl.UUCP>, jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: > Double width/height is there. 132 isn't, by me directly, but if you add >the proper fonts it would work. I can't see the use for 132 columns with the >Amiga since you need 660 pixels at a minimum for 5 pixel wide characters with >only 4 allowed for the character itself since one is required for spacing. Well, there's always 4 wide characters, leaving 3 for pixels and 1 for spacing. I wouldn't use it, but I sure wouldn't tell anyone else not to. Will JRComm handle it now if such a font were to be supplied? -larry -- The best way to accelerate an MsDos machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) (01/03/91)
In article <37486@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Fine. You've cleared up what apparently wasn't obvious. EVERY other "-COMM" >program for the Amiga has been apparently based on the original "COMM" program. Actually, COMM was based on Michael Mounier's original A-Term program. As has been discussed here before, A-term (this one) was a -very- early, very rough (but working) example source code. I still have the original source code to it, in fact (as well as the COMM source.) bj >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Brian Jackson Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga Inc. GEnie: B.J. | | bj@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com or ...{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj | | "Huh?" - Lao-Tse | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/03/91)
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Fine. You've cleared up what apparently wasn't obvious. EVERY other "-COMM" >program for the Amiga has been apparently based on the original "COMM" program So much for assumptions, eh Thad? If you'd had used JR-Comm you'd have known that it wasn't a derivitive of COMM. Names ain't everything, at least in my book... >No, I've not tested JR-Comm since I don't have it. Eight (8) times during >the past 4 years I've posted the information where to get vttest. It's on >a Fish Disk and is also at EVERY comp.sources.* archive site I've seen. >Since this appears to be your first post to Usenet, I'll be charitable and >include (again) the access info to vttest (at the end of this posting). No, I've been here for a while now, guess you're as guilty as I am for not seeing each others previous posts before. ;-) The disturbing thing me is that you seem quite ready to criticize something you've not even given a cursory glance at, yet expect me (or anyone else) to live and die with every article you've posted in c.s.a. >Being a bit obstinate, aren't you? I don't know of anyone who'd have >difficulty displaying 660 pixels across one's Amiga screen; I even do that >at my office with the crappy A1080 monitors and it's usable. Just because YOU >don't like it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. The ability to display 660 pixels is not the point, the fact that each character would only contain 4 pixels of information is. It's just not practical on an Amiga to have 132 character lines. >I hope, for your sake and with your attitude, you never post to sci.skeptic >or talk.origins! :-) :-) No, I've got more important things to do with my life. But, thanks for looking out for me... -jack-
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/03/91)
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >Its only 20 of the possible 78(?) extra pixels of overscan, which means >if you were running on your own screen, and borderless you could do it >pretty easily, and it would be a handy mode. The overscan is not the problem, it's the sub-standard appearance that a 5 pixel wide font has. I'd have no argument not to add 132 columns if it looked good, but it simply looks ugly. >Moreover, if you (now or later) make JRComm compatible with one of the >better resolution optional displays, you could do a spectacularly good >job at 1024^2. I've got no problems with adding 132 columns once the system can support it in a visually pleasing fashion, but not on the current system. -jack-
h112706@lehtori.tut.fi (Herranen Henrik) (01/03/91)
In article <659@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
The ability to display 660 pixels is not the point, the fact that each
character would only contain 4 pixels of information is. It's just not
practical on an Amiga to have 132 character lines.
Well, nowadays playing with 2.0 I have set my system default font to
a partially self-made font that has a size of 5x8 pixels, i.e. just
the same size you don't think is useful at all... Well, but life is
tough and becouse you don't like something, don't assume that no-one
does. I think it's great to have an >700x>550 screen with MUCH MUCH
MUCH text in the Workbench...
--
Henrik 'Leopold' Herranen Internet: h112706@lehtori.tut.fi
Snail Mail: TTKK/Paarakennuksen neuvonta/PL527/33101 Tampere/Finland
"I don't need no arms around me, I don't need no drugs to calm me" - PF 1979lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/03/91)
In <660@faatcrl.UUCP>, jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: >xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: > >>Its only 20 of the possible 78(?) extra pixels of overscan, which means >>if you were running on your own screen, and borderless you could do it >>pretty easily, and it would be a handy mode. > > The overscan is not the problem, it's the sub-standard appearance that >a 5 pixel wide font has. I'd have no argument not to add 132 columns if >it looked good, but it simply looks ugly. To you it looks ugly. To others, it might not. To you, the ugliness outweighs the utility. To others, it is REQUIRED that it do 132, regardless of appearance, in order for it to be usable as a VT100. Additionally, a higher resolution display is available for the Amiga (Hedley, Moniterm, etc.), which may or may not look ugly, even to you. >>Moreover, if you (now or later) make JRComm compatible with one of the >>better resolution optional displays, you could do a spectacularly good >>job at 1024^2. > > I've got no problems with adding 132 columns once the system can support >it in a visually pleasing fashion, but not on the current system. Kent has just pointed out that higher resolution displays _CAN_ support it in a visually pleasing manner. Others have pointed out (albeit in a rather condescending and obnoxious manner, in one case), that they require 132 columns, so it could be assumed that they find the current display to be adequate to the task. It's your program, and thus, your call. Just remember that the REAL difference between the Mac and the Amiga is that the Mac constitutes Apple's idea of what's right, regardless of user requirements or tastes. -larry -- The best way to accelerate an MsDos machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) (01/03/91)
In article <660@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: > > The overscan is not the problem, it's the sub-standard appearance that >a 5 pixel wide font has. I'd have no argument not to add 132 columns if >it looked good, but it simply looks ugly. > > I've got no problems with adding 132 columns once the system can support >it in a visually pleasing fashion, but not on the current system. The system can support it now. Several of us at work here use various incarnations of an 8 high x 5 wide font on 1950's, A2024's, NEC's and Moniterm Viking monitors. With the A3000 or an A2000 with an A2320 card, 132 column displays are quite usable (in fact, they are quite nice.) bj > -jack- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Brian Jackson Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga Inc. GEmie: B.J. | | bj@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com or ...{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | "It requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of | | the obvious." | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (01/04/91)
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) in <659@faatcrl.UUCP> writes: [...] The disturbing thing me is that you seem quite ready to criticize something you've not even given a cursory glance at, yet expect me (or anyone else) to live and die with every article you've posted in c.s.a. Huh?? Suggest you look at the first message in this thread from one of your users. As far as my taking a "cursory glace at" JR-Comm, it isn't something that I see being readily available and, by your own admission, it probably wouldn't suit my needs (132 columns, remember?) As far as the last clause in your sentence above, I haven't the slightest idea what point you're trying to make; you've been on Usenet long-enough (again by your own admission) to realize that EVERYTHING should be taken with a grain of salt (and, in jest, is why I made the reference to sci.skeptic and talk.origins before :-) It's just not practical on an Amiga to have 132 character lines. I disagree, since I do it often enough for it to be a useful option. :-) >I hope, for your sake and with your attitude, you never post to >sci.skeptic or talk.origins! :-) :-) No, I've got more important things to do with my life. But, thanks for looking out for me... -jack- OK! :-) Glad to read you're not thin-skinned like some of the people who DO post to those two newsgroups. Thad P.S. Where can one find JR-Comm? Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (01/04/91)
fac2@dayton.saic.com (Earle Ake) in <1991Jan2.095359.1418@dayton.saic.com> writes: > > 80 x 24 with standard characters in 80-column mode > 132 x 24 with standard characters in 132-column mode > 40 x 24 with double-wide characters in 80-column mode > 66 x 24 with double-wide characters in 132-column mode I don't believe a real VT100 can do either 40 or 66 lines of text on the screen. My book says "24 lines X 80 characters or 14 lines X 132 characters ... (24 X 132 with Advanced Video Option)". I don't see anywhere it saying it can handle 40 or 66 lines on the screen. The new VT420 series can do that. Maybe you are mistaken. Huh? Not even a VT100 with a Retro-Graphics card with do 40 or 66 lines. Looks like you misread my original lines (shown at the beginning of this reply for reference); in all four examples, it should be painfully clear that "N x 24" means {80,132,40,66} columns by 24 lines. (And, note: 40 = 80/2 and 66 = 132/2 (where the "2" is from being "double wide")). Specifying graphic coords as {X,Y} pairs is fairly common; how would you specify 80 columns and 24 lines? As 24x80 ? Gee, 12 years ago we were using VT100 terminals for video titling for tech presentations and the 66x24 format was really nice; I still demo some of those programs during a once-monthly seminar I give with a VT100 and an Amiga side- by-side; you'd be pleasantly surprised to know how many people come up after the demo and ask more about the Amiga (and that's from amongst my client base including US Govt, universities, etc.; in fact, the University of Santa Clara Graduate School of Business now teaches one of my products as a required part of their MBA program (last I heard; I really don't get involved with marketing that product since I could never get up early enough to talk with customers; and when I say "my" I mean it: spec'd, designed, implemented, shipped; but, consider, it's 8:25am right now, I've been working all night implementing networking support in my product, and am just NOW getting ready to go get some shuteye! :-)). Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
scott@mcs-server.gac.edu (Scott Hess) (01/04/91)
In article <37439@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >What baffles me is why it seems to be so difficult for "emulator" writers to >get it right, especially using an MC680x0-family CPU. A real DEC VT100 has a >dinky 8080A CPU, and the Datamedia DT80 uses an 8085 with only a few 4Kx8 >EPROMs; the Datamedia DT80 is actually a better VT100 than DEC's own VT100! >About 8 years ago (1983) I wrote a 100%-compatible VT100-emulator in assembler >which fit in an 8Kx8 EPROM for an MC6803 CPU; just requires a straightforward >fsm (finite-state-machine; state transition matrix; decision table; whatever) >to parse the ESCape codes, branch off to subroutines, and do the right thing. Actually, the amazing compactness of the original is the reason that many emulators are not that good. When programming the original, they had to cram, so many of the functions have bizarre ramifications when combined with others - it's almost like emulating circuits on a CPU. It's not very easy. It took me months to figure out all of the weirdisms, and now my program passes vttest (excepting double-high/wide - due to speed considerations, though I might just forge ahead in a future release). The program runs on NeXTs, though, so it won't help the original poster :-). Another problem with most emulators is that the author cared little for the emulation - rather, the thrust was towards communications. Thus, the author wrote an emulator which communcates fairly decently, but only emulates what s/he needs. Say the author only uses vi . . . -- scott hess scott@gac.edu Independent NeXT Developer GAC Undergrad <I still speak for nobody> "Tried anarchy, once. Found it had too many constraints . . ." "Buy `Sweat 'n wit '2 Live Crew'`, a new weight loss program by Richard Simmons . . ."
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/04/91)
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >Well, there's always 4 wide characters, leaving 3 for pixels and 1 for spacing >I wouldn't use it, but I sure wouldn't tell anyone else not to. Will JRComm >handle it now if such a font were to be supplied? The 132 col fonts would have to replace the 80 col fonts supplied with JR-Comm. I did a bit of fiddling with the fonts themselves to allow for the graphics characters and inverse equivelents to reside in four sets of 256 character fonts. As for not telling anyone else not to use it, I can see your point, but I also feel that having such an inferior looking font there only gives the opposition something to harp on about the Amiga. I've got nothing against putting it in, I'm just concerned with it looking good. -jack-
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/04/91)
h112706@lehtori.tut.fi (Herranen Henrik) writes: >Well, nowadays playing with 2.0 I have set my system default font to >a partially self-made font that has a size of 5x8 pixels, i.e. just >the same size you don't think is useful at all... Well, but life is >tough and becouse you don't like something, don't assume that no-one >does. I think it's great to have an >700x>550 screen with MUCH MUCH >MUCH text in the Workbench... Ok, if it looks decent, and you don't mind sharing it, send it on over to me... -jack-
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/04/91)
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >It's your program, and thus, your call. Just remember that the REAL difference >between the Mac and the Amiga is that the Mac constitutes Apple's idea of >what's right, regardless of user requirements or tastes. <deep emotional scars> ;-) Now we're hitting *way* below the belt... Point well taken. -jack-
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/04/91)
bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) writes: >The system can support it now. Several of us at work here use various >incarnations of an 8 high x 5 wide font on 1950's, A2024's, NEC's and >Moniterm Viking monitors. With the A3000 or an A2000 with an A2320 >card, 132 column displays are quite usable (in fact, they are quite >nice.) Uh, where can I get a copy of them, and can I include them with JR-Comm? -jack-
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/04/91)
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) in <659@faatcrl.UUCP> writes: > [...] > The disturbing thing me is that you seem quite ready to criticize > something you've not even given a cursory glance at, yet expect me (or > anyone else) to live and die with every article you've posted in > c.s.a. >Huh?? Suggest you look at the first message in this thread from one of your >users. As far as my taking a "cursory glace at" JR-Comm, it isn't something >that I see being readily available and, by your own admission, it probably >wouldn't suit my needs (132 columns, remember?) As far as the last clause in >your sentence above, I haven't the slightest idea what point you're trying to >make; you've been on Usenet long-enough (again by your own admission) to >realize that EVERYTHING should be taken with a grain of salt (and, in jest, is >why I made the reference to sci.skeptic and talk.origins before :-) Not so much a point as a rub at the exasperated tone of having to post something that you've done so "no less than eight times over the past four years"... Mea cupla for the lack of emoticons for (de)emphisis ;-) >OK! :-) Glad to read you're not thin-skinned like some of the people who DO >post to those two newsgroups. Hell no! I'm not really a bad egg, just a double-yoked one! ;-) >P.S. Where can one find JR-Comm? email a snail address to me or browse a local BBS, it's fairly popular, if I do say so myself... Make sure it's the 1.01 release though. BTW, I got ahold of vttest today, have a few mites crawling around, but no killer roaches... -jack-
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/04/91)
In <666@faatcrl.UUCP>, jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: >lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: > >>Well, there's always 4 wide characters, leaving 3 for pixels and 1 for spacing >>I wouldn't use it, but I sure wouldn't tell anyone else not to. Will JRComm >>handle it now if such a font were to be supplied? > > The 132 col fonts would have to replace the 80 col fonts supplied with >JR-Comm. I did a bit of fiddling with the fonts themselves to allow for the >graphics characters and inverse equivelents to reside in four sets of 256 >character fonts. > > As for not telling anyone else not to use it, I can see your point, but >I also feel that having such an inferior looking font there only gives >the opposition something to harp on about the Amiga. Let 'em harp, if they happen to see it. Ask them to show you _their_ 132 columns, and when they do, ask them "OK, now show me an animation.. no wait.. don't stop your download!" -larry -- The best way to accelerate an MsDos machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/04/91)
In <668@faatcrl.UUCP>, jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: >lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: > >>It's your program, and thus, your call. Just remember that the REAL difference >>between the Mac and the Amiga is that the Mac constitutes Apple's idea of >>what's right, regardless of user requirements or tastes. > > <deep emotional scars> ;-) > > Now we're hitting *way* below the belt... Point well taken. Heh heh.. well, someone had to say it. :-) -larry -- The best way to accelerate an MsDos machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) (01/05/91)
In article <669@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: >bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) writes: > >>The system can support it now. Several of us at work here use various >>incarnations of an 8 high x 5 wide font on 1950's, A2024's, NEC's and >>Moniterm Viking monitors. With the A3000 or an A2000 with an A2320 >>card, 132 column displays are quite usable (in fact, they are quite >>nice.) > > Uh, where can I get a copy of them, and can I include them with JR-Comm? > > -jack- I'll mail you a copy of the one that I created myself. That's ok to use. bj ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Brian Jackson Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga Inc. GEnie: B.J. | | bj@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com or ...{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj | | "Homer, I couldn't help overhear you warping Bart's mind." | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) (01/05/91)
Not to be rude about the program, but JRComm's VT100 emulation is pretty skeleton. It finally has the keymapping and such, but not double height, no double width, no DSR requests... it's looks (to me) like an enhanced ANSI terminal emulation. Besides, no kermit... -- David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22 UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70!David.Plummer Domain: David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG Standard Disclaimers Apply...
David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) (01/05/91)
132 columns is actually nice to have... I was debugging some TSX (PDP-11) dumps a while back using handshake and it sure helps if you can see the comments and the address all on the same line. I wouldn't work in it constantly (too hard to see, I agree), but it is needed. -- David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22 UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70!David.Plummer Domain: David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG Standard Disclaimers Apply...
fac2@dayton.saic.com (Earle Ake) (01/05/91)
In article <37526@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > fac2@dayton.saic.com (Earle Ake) in <1991Jan2.095359.1418@dayton.saic.com> > writes: > > > > > 80 x 24 with standard characters in 80-column mode > > 132 x 24 with standard characters in 132-column mode > > 40 x 24 with double-wide characters in 80-column mode > > 66 x 24 with double-wide characters in 132-column mode > > I don't believe a real VT100 can do either 40 or 66 lines of text on > the screen. My book says "24 lines X 80 characters or 14 lines X 132 > characters ... (24 X 132 with Advanced Video Option)". I don't see > anywhere it saying it can handle 40 or 66 lines on the screen. The > new VT420 series can do that. Maybe you are mistaken. > > Huh? Not even a VT100 with a Retro-Graphics card with do 40 or 66 lines. > > Looks like you misread my original lines (shown at the beginning of this > reply for reference); in all four examples, it should be painfully clear that > "N x 24" means {80,132,40,66} columns by 24 lines. (And, note: 40 = 80/2 and > 66 = 132/2 (where the "2" is from being "double wide")). YUP, I did. Fingers were working faster than the old brain that day. What I read and what I saw were two different things. I missed the double-wide character reference and just saw the 40X24 and 66X24 reference. Oh well. _____________________________________________________________________________ ____ ____ ___ Earle Ake /___ /___/ / / Science Applications International Corporation ____// / / /__ Dayton, Ohio ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet: fac2@dayton.saic.com uucp: dayvb!fac2
dave@exactus.UUCP (Dave) (01/06/91)
> > P.S. Where can one find JR-Comm? > > Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] Thad, Jr.Comm is probably the most popular terminal program among NON technically oriented users, which, I will speculate, account for about 70% of the market. Here on Exactus, about 70% of the users are calling using Jr.Comm 1.01 or lower, so, it is a good guess to say that Jr.Comm is readily available from most major BBS's that support the Amiga. Dave +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | David Salas | Exactus : David Salas | | President | Genie : EXAC-DAVE | | Exactus Information Services | UUCP : exactus!dave | | (707) 524-2548 @ 2400 (8N1) | Fax : (707) 524-2546 | | (707) 524-2553 @ 9600/1400 (V32/HST) | Voice : (707) 524-2547 | +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
manes@vger.nsu.edu (01/07/91)
In article <1.27881089@weyr.FIDONET.ORG>, David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: > Not to be rude about the program, but JRComm's VT100 emulation is pretty > skeleton. It finally has the keymapping and such, but not double height, > no double width, no DSR requests... it's looks (to me) like an enhanced > ANSI terminal emulation. Besides, no kermit... That's funny. My Jr-Comm has double-high, double-width characters. My Jr-Comm answers properly to the DSR Request. It does not seem to be all that "skeleton" to me. You might want to get Jr-Comm v1.01. You will see a difference. My only complaints that remain with Jr-Comm is: - Slow response to Control-y or Control-c at 2400 while using vt100 emulation. (It is a bit better if I go to a 2 color screen) - Needs Kermit - Needs a scripting language! I registered this software and feel it is the best money I have spent thus far in the Amiga software realm, except AmigaVision of course! :-) :-) > -- > David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22 > UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70!David.Plummer > Domain: David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG > Standard Disclaimers Apply... -mark= +--------+ ================================================== | \/ | Mark D. Manes "Mr. AmigaVision" | /\ \/ | manes@vger.nsu.edu | / | (804) 683-2532 "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA" +--------+ ==================================================
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (01/08/91)
David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: >Not to be rude about the program, but JRComm's VT100 emulation is pretty >skeleton. It finally has the keymapping and such, but not double height, >no double width, no DSR requests... it's looks (to me) like an enhanced >ANSI terminal emulation. Besides, no kermit... Nope, double width and height characters are supported, so long as you've installed the vtxx.fonts from the fonts.lzh archive that comes with the distribution archive. And it does do DSR too, I left out a few of them, but the cursor position and and terminal status are there. Kermit? Not yet, but I am going to add XPR support, so you'll have that too. -jack-
David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) (01/11/91)
M> In article <1.27881089@weyr.FIDONET.ORG>, David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FID
M> (David Plummer) writes:
M> > Not to be rude about the program, but JRComm's VT100 emulation is pre
M> > skeleton. It finally has the keymapping and such, but not double hei
M> > no double width, no DSR requests... it's looks (to me) like an enhanc
M> > ANSI terminal emulation. Besides, no kermit...
M>
M> That's funny. My Jr-Comm has double-high, double-width characters. My
M> Jr-Comm answers properly to the DSR Request. It does not seem to be
M> all that "skeleton" to me.
M>
M> You might want to get Jr-Comm v1.01. You will see a difference.
M>
Hmmm... all I know for sure is that the DEC software I wrote ran with
the VT102, VT220, and Handshake, but just sat there with JRComm.
As for double height/width, does it actually use double size characters
or just double space them? All I remember is that the Christmas tree at
logon looked like real crap :-). It IS entirely possible that I may have
been in VT100 mode and not VT102. Would that have made a difference?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
= plummerd@uregina.ca or plumme@hercules.uregina.ca (BITNET) =
=---------------------------------------------------------------------=
= Amiga__ | Make it possible for programmer's to =
= __ /// IBMUBMWEALLBM4IBM | write code in English and you'll soon =
= \\\/// | discover that programmers cannot =
= \XX/ | write in English. =
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--
David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22
UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70!David.Plummer
Domain: David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Standard Disclaimers Apply...David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) (01/11/91)
JR> From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
JR> Date: 7 Jan 91 23:29:04 GMT
JR> Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ
JR> Message-ID: <681@faatcrl.UUCP>
JR> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
JR>
JR> David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes:
JR>
JR> >Not to be rude about the program, but JRComm's VT100 emulation is pret
JR> >skeleton. It finally has the keymapping and such, but not double heig
JR> >no double width, no DSR requests... it's looks (to me) like an enhance
JR> >ANSI terminal emulation. Besides, no kermit...
JR>
JR> Nope, double width and height characters are supported, so long as yo
JR> installed the vtxx.fonts from the fonts.lzh archive that comes with the
JR> distribution archive. And it does do DSR too, I left out a few of them
JR> but the cursor position and and terminal status are there.
JR>
JR> Kermit? Not yet, but I am going to add XPR support, so you'll have t
JR> too.
JR>
JR> -jack-
JR>
JR> --- ConfMail V3.31
JR> * Origin: weyr.fidonet.org (1:140/22)
Actually I think the problem may have been that I had set VT100 instead
of VT102 emulation, if that could make a difference. I still had
problems with the printer query messages though... I'll have to do some
more testing when the PDP-11 comes back up... all in all it looks a lot
better that I thought it did.
--
David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22
UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70!David.Plummer
Domain: David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Standard Disclaimers Apply...v089pfrb@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Jeffrey C Murphy) (01/15/91)
In article <20.278EA8A3@weyr.FIDONET.ORG>, David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes... >JR> From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) >JR> Date: 7 Jan 91 23:29:04 GMT >JR> Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ >JR> Message-ID: <681@faatcrl.UUCP> >JR> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga >JR> >JR> David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: >JR> [many deletions.....] I've been looking for JRC 1.01 for quite a while. Where can I find it? Can someone upload it to the nasa archive site? Thanx. Jeff M.
mtpins@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Firestar) (01/15/91)
From article <54415@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, by v089pfrb@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Jeffrey C Murphy):
> I've been looking for JRC 1.01 for quite a while. Where can I find it? Can
It's available on isca.icaen.uiowa.edu.
--
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* Michael Pins (Firestar) | Internet: mtpins@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu *
* ISCA's Amiga Librarian | <insert std disclaimer here> *
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