tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) (01/16/91)
Ok, well, with the A3000out in the world, all the specs now known. I think it is more than time to start talking about the A3500 (or would it be the A4000 ?) In the long tradition of c.s.a I will expect this to get very spirited and look forward to all the rumors and wish lists (1/2 ;-) Actually, I am not trying to stir up trouble here, but I was thinking the other day abou this topic. My development env here is bogging down, and my choice is to spend approx 1800$ now and get a '486 MB or wait and get a A3000/UX. But I just cant justify the expense of a A3000/UX for >UNIX< development over a '486 IN MY CASE because I would need a entire A3000/UX as opposed to just a '486 MB. So I started thinking, "Ok, get the '486 now and start saving for the NEXT generation Amiga, or a A3000/UX and a Toaster when they make it fit." .. but what WILL be the next generation Amiga ?? Ok... on to the rumors... I have heard that (from the rumors guy at our users group) (Actually, they are such logical changes that they should be true) 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster. These have been alternately mentioned for a "A3500" or "A4000" so I'll list em here... 3) A possible '040 at > 25 MHZ 4) New 256 or 4096 color modes (640x400 or better) 5) Standard ethernet ? (rumored workstation configuration) My WISH LIST would start as follows... 1) Commodore to embrace C++ as the new standard in the way they did with C. 2) The better video modes. 3) A standard >3< button mouse. Hehehe -- have fun! -- ========[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Amiga & Unix Software Development]======= = "I know how you feel, you don't know if you want to hit me or kiss me - = = --- I get a lot of that." Madonna as Breathless Mahoney (Dick Tracy) = =========== Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1 =================== = NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by anybody. = === The Romantic Encounters BBS 201-759-8450(PEP) / 201-759-8568(2400) ====
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/17/91)
tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes: > Ok, well, with the A3000out in the world, all the specs now known. I > think it is more than time to start talking about the A3500 (or would > it be the A4000 ?) Which is a topic specifically meant to be isolated to c.s.a.advocacy; please _start_ such discussions there, and save the rest of the groups the pain of moving them. > In the long tradition of c.s.a I will expect this to get very spirited > and look forward to all the rumors and wish lists (1/2 ;-) Which is why it should be in .advocacy, and not the groups you chose. Those of us interested in participating in such discussions are already running a permanent floating net.riot in .advocacy; do join the fun. > Actually, I am not trying to stir up trouble here, but I was thinking > the other day abou this topic. My development env here is bogging > down, and my choice is to spend approx 1800$ now and get a '486 MB or > wait and get a A3000/UX. A posting that both points to a future path for the Amiga and suggests that any other piece of trash has a hope of acting as a sop until you get an Amiga is an _excellent_ and 100% guaranteed way to stir up trouble; use some sense! > But I just cant justify the expense of a A3000/UX for >UNIX< > development over a '486 IN MY CASE because I would need a entire > A3000/UX as opposed to just a '486 MB. Tell someone who cares. I call that throwing good money after bad. > So I started thinking, "Ok, get the '486 now and start saving for the > NEXT generation Amiga, or a A3000/UX and a Toaster when they make it > fit." .. but what WILL be the next generation Amiga ?? "Next" is not a word we like to hear around here a lot, either. > Ok... on to the rumors... Heeeeere's Kenny.....: > I have heard that (from the rumors guy at our users group) (Actually, > they are such logical changes that they should be true) > 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. Probably. > 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster. The _A3000_ was sized to fit a Toaster; it isn't Commodore's fault that Newtek didn't employ anyone competent to read an engineering drawing, and made a card that wouldn't fit the perfectly well delimited space allowed. Screw 'em; let Newtek fix their own engineering gaffes. > These have been alternately mentioned for a "A3500" or "A4000" so I'll > list em here... > 3) A possible '040 at > 25 MHZ Probably the best you can do. Yawn. Wake me up when you can do that at 100 MHz with memory fast enough to keep up. > 4) New 256 or 4096 color modes (640x400 or better) Far too little imagination; if CBM is going to keep a lock on the Video market in the face of the fast oncoming competition, without an adequate advertising budget, then there _must_ be a stock 24bit color system _from CBM_. If you can't suck them in with advertising bullshit, you have to actually blow the competition out of the water with technical merit. > 5) Standard ethernet ? (rumored workstation configuration) Depends a lot on your intended market; if you are still targeting the high end home market, then ethernet is a bull-nipple as a standard feature for 90% of your market, and should probably be left out to reduce the base price; if you only intend to sell into the workstation market, then you are going to have to jack the machine speed up to outcompete the R6000 class machines, and the cost of ethernet is going to disappear into the noise level compared to the cost of the whole unit, so you might as well toss it in to help you compete on techinical merit. If you're competing in this market, you'd better be striving for 1280x1024 resolution as well, or you'll keep being seen as a toy vendor. > My WISH LIST would start as follows... > 1) Commodore to embrace C++ as the new standard in the way they did > with C. Gag! Follow comp.std.c++. The C++ language is rapidly going the way of Ada -- too damned complicated and counterintuitive to be used for anyone of less than deific competence. Like Ada, C++ has incomprehensible identifier visibility rules, bizarre separate compilation interactions, and adds poor compromises between upward compatibility with C and object oriented programming support, baroque inheritance rules, et ad nauseum cetera. > 2) The better video modes. Keen plan; that's what CBM's been about. The hardware is in place, it is unclear to what extent software support/compatibility has been accomplished. I'm not the least bit thrilled with a monitor technology that seems to paint the screen in quadrants, though; that tremendously complicates the "draw after the scanline is passed" schemes to support BOB motion without double buffering overhead or screen trash from uncoordinated blits. > 3) A standard >3< button mouse. Looks like it will be crucial for AmigaUnix to be used smoothly with the existing software base; it would be nice to see it hacked in to become a standard part of AmigaOS, but that implies that the A3000 should ship with a three button mouse, and the user community will need to upgrade or to have a keypress that emulates the middle mouse button. > Hehehe -- have fun! Sure, but there's a playground for this kind of stuff; please use it. Deliberately starting a thread like this _away_ from .advocacy is just being hostile to the c.s.a.* community. /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, COMPLETED comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization.
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (01/21/91)
In-Reply-To: message from tron1@tronsbox.xei.com
Even though I don't really have time, I'll join in with this thread...
First off, and not to be negative, I don't think C= will make any changes in
future A3x00 machines to accommodate NewTek's wonderboard...it was their
design decision to disregard specs. If C= was to go out of their way for
NewTek, then what's the use of enforcing standards? (Note: I love the
Toaster, and want one more than just about any other single peripheral for my
Amiga, but it just won't fit)
Here's my wishlist for future Amigas:
1.) Of course equip it with the latest and greatest in Motorola
chip, but build on the CPU slot idea. Ship the machine w/o
a CPU on the motherboard, just upgrade through a fast slot.
2.) Finish and release an rtg.library, before the developers
get together and create their own "committee" standard (as
they may be doing now in Europe)...this will save some face.
But be sure to get developer input on what they'd like to see.
3.) A 3D standard. We already have Amigas that can wax an IRIS in
integer and floating point, but they have nifty 3D accelerators
that still let them do shaded renderings interactively.
4.) High-speed EtherNet on the motherboard.
5.) Sound input, both line level stereo and microphone miniplug.
...I'd also like to see C= publish a minimum styleguide for developers to
follow. Not as strict as Apple's, but something that Ami developers could
build on while maintaining some consistency across applications.
Sean
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com (Dave Haverkamp) (01/25/91)
In article <7100@crash.cts.com> seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from tron1@tronsbox.xei.com > [ Stuff deleted...] > >Here's my wishlist for future Amigas: > > 1.) Of course equip it with the latest and greatest in Motorola > chip, but build on the CPU slot idea. Ship the machine w/o > a CPU on the motherboard, just upgrade through a fast slot. > > 2.) Finish and release an rtg.library, before the developers > get together and create their own "committee" standard (as > they may be doing now in Europe)...this will save some face. > But be sure to get developer input on what they'd like to see. > > 3.) A 3D standard. We already have Amigas that can wax an IRIS in > integer and floating point, but they have nifty 3D accelerators > that still let them do shaded renderings interactively. All of these sound pretty resonable to me. > > 4.) High-speed EtherNet on the motherboard. Yuck! Stick us with only one network option, realisticly some people don't even want to pay for having networking on the motherboard. It makes things cost more too. I would rather vote for C= to give us more networking options. What about a Token-Ring board? How about the 20 Mbit ARCNET? FDDI? Some very good arguments can be made for each of these network options. Token-Ring -- Would allow hooking into IBM and possibly Apollo Rings. 20Mbit ARCNET -- Will work with the current 2.5 Mbit ARCNET. C= needs to get more PC network vendors besides Novell to support the Amiga. ( Banyan, 3COM would be good choices. ) FDDI -- The wave of the future... Everyone wants a high speed network. Some College Campus networks are FDDI, and a few large companies are either installing or looking at FDDI. FYI - Current ARCNET supports 255 nodes, many of our ARCNETs have 200+ nodes on them. 20 MBit ARCNET supports 2048(?) nodes and is compatible with existing 2.5 MBit ARCNET. Our Token-Ring network is also in the 200+ range. For people with large networks it is much better to use a token passing network because then each node has a guaranteed chance to access and pass data on the network. Granted some people put large numbers of nodes on Ethernet... But sooner or later, they break it into segments with bridges or routers. :-) > > 5.) Sound input, both line level stereo and microphone miniplug. > I would rather see C= offer a sound digitizer as an add on. Or just let things as they are. Once C= puts something on the motherboard, it discourages developers from making same piece of hardware. Then everyone is forced to wait on C= to upgrade system, and C= is forced to maintain compatibility with previous chips. >...I'd also like to see C= publish a minimum styleguide for developers to >follow. Not as strict as Apple's, but something that Ami developers could >build on while maintaining some consistency across applications. > Very, good suggestion. C= needs to take an active role in establishing standards for the Amiga. That way developers will be compatible with each other to some degree. Users always benefit when there is a low learning curve for some new software package. Plus, it would be nice to think you can continue purchasing Brand-X software to run on Brand-Y hardware. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- David A. Haverkamp Collins Commercial Avionics Division Rockwell International MS 124-211 INTERNET: dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52498