jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) (01/11/91)
KRON-TV, Channel 4 in San Francisco had a report from Mac World on the 11
o'clock news. The really hot item this year is "full motion video". About
1/2 of the report talked about recording video frames on the computer and
producing video on the computer to be sent out as video. They didn't point
out how expensive it is to do this on the Macintosh, but the 2nd half of the
report featured close-ups of New Tek's Video Toaster. For only $1600,
the Video Toaster provides a 4-input/2-output video switcher/genlock with
character generator and 24-bit paint program.
The reporter did not make it clear that you have to have an Amiga 2000
for the Toaster to plug in to.
If you're in Northern California this weekend (Jan 10-13) you can see it
for yourself at Moscone Center in San Francisco.
--
Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: jms@tardis.tymnet.com or jms@gemini.tymnet.com
BT Tymnet Tech Services | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms
PO Box 49019, MS-C51 | BIX: smithjoe | CA license plate: "POPJ P," (PDP-10)
San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | humorous dislaimer: "My Amiga 3000 speaks for me."daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (01/12/91)
In article <1991Jan11.113544.26971@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) writes: >I have some literature from RasterOps that advertises a board that will >capture 8bits in real time. One thing to watch out for. Lots of frame grabbers adverise the capability of grabbing video at resolution N in real time. What they often don't talk about is the fact that they can't actually capture multiple frames that way (I don't know anything about the RasterOps board itself, only these things in general). You really have two separate problems. Some devices, like the DigiView, will capture an image in non-real time. They do a very nice job, but are useless for interactive work. Then you get the class that will capture an image in real time, but only to private memory. These let you take a good snapshot from a video camera or TV, but don't let you capture moving video. At the high end you get devices that allow you to capture multiple frames in real time and, hopefully, leave a little time on the main CPU to let you do something interesting with the images as they come through. "Mandela" for the Live! board is an excellent example of this last one. On a Mac, the big problem would be moving the captured image to some place it could be processed. At best, the video capture board will have fully double buffered memory. You move one snapshot out while capturing the next. If the board doesn't support DMA into main Mac memory, you're left with an effective 2-4MB/s transfer rate, depending on the Mac, to get this stuff out. If you're capturing images in the Mac internal format, that would leave plenty of time for CPU interaction. The only real problem is the amount of memory needed for this capture on the video board. If they're selling it for cheap, it's probably not in the realtime capture class of devices like the Live! If its $1000 or more, it better be. Interestingly, the Live! board is a pretty clever design. Since the levels it caputures are Amiga resolutions, it never grabs anything more complex than what the Amiga can deal with. It doesn't actually have any memory on board, but uses the CPU to dump directly to Amiga video memory. Since it uses the CPU, it can only grab less than 1/2 the full Amiga non-blocking resolution (which would be 640x400x2 or 320x400x4), this works. 8-Bitplanes either needs an awfully fast bus or buffer memory. >>Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: jms@tardis.tymnet.com or jms@gemini.tymnet.com >hgm@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu "..now that Mac way of doing things has taken hold, -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "Don't worry, 'bout a thing. 'Cause every little thing, gonna be alright" -Bob Marley
jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) (01/13/91)
The new newsgroup comp.sys.amiga.advocacy was created for comparing the Amiga to other computers. Here is a new article for it. In article <1408@tardis.Tymnet.COM> jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) writes: :KRON-TV, Channel 4 in San Francisco had a report from Mac World on the 11 :o'clock news. The really hot item this year is "full motion video". About :1/2 of the report talked about recording video frames on the computer and :producing video on the computer to be sent out as video. They didn't point :out how expensive it is to do this on the Macintosh, but the 2nd half of the :report featured close-ups of New Tek's Video Toaster. For only $1600, :the Video Toaster provides a 4-input/2-output video switcher/genlock with :character generator and 24-bit paint program. : :The reporter did not make it clear that you have to have an Amiga 2000 :for the Toaster to plug in to. > >If you're in Northern California this weekend (Jan 10-13) you can see it >for yourself at the Civic Center (and Moscone Center) in San Francisco. I was debating whether to take BART up there all the way from Fremont and pay $25 to get into the exhibits. The news report gave me the excuse I needed. So I went up there. New Tek had booth 5704 in Brooks Hall (below the Civic Center). There were a few places in the Hall where large groups of excited warm bodies overloaded the air conditioning. One such "hot spot" was all around the Video Toaster. They had 3 sets of A2000 + Toaster + 3 monitors (Preview, Program, Control). One set had the spokeswoman, 3 cameras, and a feed from a color Macintosh (to show how the Amiga can be used with Macs). The other 2 sets were used for demonstrations to individuals. At opposite corners, they had VCRs continuously playing the New Tek demo (including Alan Hastings' stuff) and Penn & Teller's "home video". Of course they were hyping that the Video Toaster is only $1595, and a complete system is available for less than $4000. (The Mac video switcher plus genlock combinations are over $10,000 for the added hardware alone.) -- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: jms@tardis.tymnet.com or jms@gemini.tymnet.com BT Tymnet Tech Services | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms PO Box 49019, MS-C51 | BIX: smithjoe | CA license plate: "POPJ P," (PDP-10) San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | humorous dislaimer: "My Amiga 3000 speaks for me."
siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa) (01/15/91)
>>KRON-TV, Channel 4 in San Francisco had a report from Mac World on the 11 >>o'clock news. The really hot item this year is "full motion video". About >>1/2 of the report talked about recording video frames on the computer and >>producing video on the computer to be sent out as video. > > >What a perfectly _charming_ idea! Kind of like an upscale Live!. And only 5 >years since Live! has been on the market. > >I have some literature from RasterOps that advertises a board that will >capture 8bits in real time. As with most Mac literature, it breezes through >the high concept, and gives very little detail what is actually needed to >make it useful. I get the impression that they are not using a compressed >format such as ANIM. > I have evaluate these graphics boards for the Mac,as you describe. Here are some details. 1.RasterOps 364. This one is 24 bits.(not 8 bits).This bd can display live video on Mac window,or full screen.One good advantage is you do not need any 24 bits graphic card separately as all other bds I tested need that.And this one is only a one card (live video processing and 24 bit design). But if you do processor(Mac) dependent work then video motion slow down,but still video is quite good. 2.Radius TV. This bd also live video on mac window or full screen.Can change 8,16 or 24 bits resolution.(This is clever thinking). Can even insert text on VIT(vertcal interval between fields).And also some video special effects.Only RGB inputs. 3.Targa card. We have bought this one.Very expensive as well. But live video is very good. No window facility. You can display only on full screen only.RGB inputs only. Please note: For normal home use RasterOps come on top with price and simple design. For serious research work you might decide Radius or Targa or SuperMac which is not released to the public yet. DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY INFO ABOUT THESE BD'S RELEASED FOR AMIGA. RasterOps told me they might do that for Amiga. Siri Hewa. ||||OTC|| R&D Visual Communications Australia. e-mail: siri@otc.otca.oz.au
simard@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Serge Simard) (01/15/91)
In article <6924@crash.cts.com>, critical.mass@pro-graphics.cts.com (Peter Altamore) writes: |>On 11 Jan 91 23:30:42 GMT daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie): |> |>>interesting with the images as they come through. "Mandela" for the Live! |>>board is an excellent example of this last one. |> |>Mandela is that ANC guy from dungeons of South Africa. It's 'Mandala' which |>is the name of a type of oriental design. Nice misspell! ;> It's pretty |>amazing to me that this revolutionary and useful product is no longer for |>sale to the general public. Anyone want to sell me their copy of Mandala |>for the Amiga? Not sold??? Check Feb 91 issue of MacWorld. They mention a 5900$ package for the amiga and the equivalent coming in the future for the mac. |> |>-Net Spellchecker ;> |>-- |> UUCP: crash!pro-graphics!critical.mass | Critical Mass Software |> ARPA/DDN: pro-graphics!critical.mass@nosc.mil | P.O. Box 23 |> Internet: critical.mass@pro-graphics.cts.com | Short Hills, NJ 07078 *-------------------------------------------------------------- ///----------* * Serge Simard Project: G.I.P.P.O /// Only * * SIMARD@IRO.UMONTREAL.CA ou/or U1075@JSP.UMONTREAL.CA \\\/// Amiga... * *---------------------------------------------------------- \XX/ ------------*
smiley@gcc.uucp (Wise men still seek Him) (02/02/91)
In article <1408@tardis.Tymnet.COM>, jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) writes: ... > report featured close-ups of New Tek's Video Toaster. For only $1600, > the Video Toaster provides a 4-input/2-output video switcher/genlock with > character generator and 24-bit paint program. > > The reporter did not make it clear that you have to have an Amiga 2000 > for the Toaster to plug in to. > I have had the opportunity for a "hands-on" demonstration of Newtek's Video Toaster. It is, in a word, astonishing. The device is a card that plugs into an Amiga 2000 series computer. It will not fit into the 3000s at this time. I understand that work is underway to remedy that problem. The Video Toaster accepts four NTSC inputs and creates NTSC output. It expects that the sources are all genlocked to offer all of its features. It functions as a digital video effects switcher, manually or timed switching. Those $50K effects that you've seen on TV where the page appears to turn or the video frame flips and rolls from the corners - the Toaster can do! It functions as a 24 bit paint program - all of the expected features and a nice display. It functions as a character generator - crawls, text effects (like chrome and gold), again, very nice appearance. It functions as a genlock. Using it exclusively as a genlock is a waste of resource (after all, you're going to pay $1600), and is not the Toaster's strong point. Super product, rivals several expensive pieces of industrial video gear (it will hold 400 lines of resolution, great for Super-VHS and ED-Beta, but not 1"!). Plan to have lots of memory in your 2000 series machine, better performance on a 2500. These opinions are my own, based upon personal observation and salesman provided information. This may not reflect the technical details provided by Newtek. Jim Smiley
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (02/09/91)
In-Reply-To: message from smiley@gcc.uucp
The only complaints that I have, and have heard, deal with ToasterPaint and
the pixely look of its compression effects.
I never want to work in HAM again, and I think it would have been relatively
easy for NewTek to have the Toaster either read in the coordinates of the
mouse, or require a stylus and tablet to work. Although a stylus is typically
$500 or more, what the hell...you're already going to have to spend a
considerable amount of money beefing up an A2x00, buying TBCs, etc. to get the
Toaster to function anyway. I'm painting in full color now with my DCTV, and
never want to look HAM in the face again :)
The problem with artifacts when doing any kind of video compression has
already scared off one of the local production places, but I think they
overlooked everything else it could do. They didn't think it was up to
broadcast specs...but since they haven't gone with the Toaster, and they don't
have $50,000+ to spend on a box that will do about 1/4 of what the Toaster can
they're still "cuts only." Such is life.
Sean
PS> I don't recall what the company's name was, but there's a TBC on a card
for $995 that has multiple inputs (including component for Hi-8mm, SVHS,
MII, etc.)...goes in a PC slot, but doesn't require a BBoard. I want one!
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// | * All opinions expressed herein |
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