tomc@oakhill.UUCP (Tom Cunningham) (12/05/86)
I am finally getting around to posting a collection of responses
(garnered from the net and personal mail) concerning Unix-like shells
for the IBM PC. It looks to me like the original low-cost/shareware
products are giving way to more expensive commercial products that
offer more functionality and (hopefully) work better with resident
programs.
One product that is not mentioned below is Polytron's PolyShell which
sells for $149.00 and includes alias, command macro, and history
substitution, enhanced I/O redirection for DOS, shell programming
capability, and a complement of Unix-like utilities (cp, diff, grep,
mv, mkdir, sed, among others). I do not have PolyShell or any other
Polytron product, so I can't vouch for it. Also, Polytron appears
to be a software publisher, so this shell may be another in a different
guise (viz., Polytron also markets Underware's Brief, a text editor).
Polytron's address is:
Polytron Corporation
1815 NW 169th Place
Suite 2110
Beaverton, OR 97006
Tom Cunningham "Good, fast, cheap -- select two."
USPS: Motorola Inc. 6501 William Cannon Dr. W. Austin, TX 78735-8598
UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax,gatech}!ut-sally!oakhill!tomc
Phone: 512-440-2953
From: Stu Heiss <im4u!ut-sally!topaz!rutgers!lll-crg!ihnp4!jpusa1!stu>
Posted-Date: Fri, 3 Oct 86 15:05:13 cdt
Message-Id: <8610032005.AA20785@jpusa1.UUCP>
To: rutgers!husc6!ut-sally!im4u!oakhill!tomc
Subject: Re: PC-Shell vs. Holub Shell
Newsgroups: net.micro.pc
In-Reply-To: <785@oakhill.UUCP>
Organization: JPUSA - Chicago, IL
Status: R
Tom,
I have both. Either one is considerably better than command.com
but both are missing enough stuff or broken in enough ways to drive you
nuts if you're used to a real csh. I've heard good rumors about
Beckemeyer's csh. I'd spend the 50 bucks and go that route. It does
have back quote expansion which is missing on the others. Holub's shell
has no read capability!!! Forget trying to write a script that can get
input from the terminal. If either Kent of Holub would put the code in
the public domain, we could all hack on it and everyone could have a
real csh.
Stu
--
Stu Heiss {ihnp4!jpusa1!stu}
From: tes@whuts.UUCP (STERKEL)
Newsgroups: net.wanted.sources
Subject: Why I do not use pc_shell Re: need pc_shell
Message-ID: <1013@whuts.UUCP>
Date: 14 Oct 86 19:29:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: whuts.1013
Posted: Tue Oct 14 14:29:21 1986
Date-Received: 15 Oct 86 09:18:12 GMT
References: <496@inuxh.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 17
> I am looking for the pc_shell program in a form I can use.
I have been dying for the next response on this
pc-shell.
pc-shell is a fine, clever Berkeley UNIX emulation
for MS/PC-DOS.
BUT...
it is also extremely naive in its implementation.
It is poorly implemented in todays PC environment of
in-memory programs. For example, it bombs out all
of the Bourbaki (1dir) and Borland (Lightning,
Sidekik), PC-DOS PRINT, PC-MAG CACHE, etc., etc.,
etc.
Get the message?
Sigh,
another nice idea relegated to the round file.
From: alt@ihlpf.UUCP (Todesco)
Newsgroups: net.micro.pc
Subject: UNIX-type PC Shell
Message-ID: <797@ihlpf.UUCP>
Date: 15 Oct 86 12:45:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: ihlpf.797
Posted: Wed Oct 15 07:45:07 1986
Date-Received: 16 Oct 86 02:33:47 GMT
Distribution: net
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 8
I have read of two UNIX-like shells for the PC. They are:
1. Dr. Dobb's Journal of Software Tools
501 Galveston Dr. - Redwood City, CA 94063
Shell=$29.95; /util=$29.95; Both=$50.
2. Kent William - 722 Rundell St. - Iowa City, IA 52240
Donation=$25. - will send compiled version & "C" source
I don't know anything about either of these two, other than what I read in
an ad. Anyone have any experience?
From: paula@bcsaic.UUCP (paul allen)
Newsgroups: net.micro.pc
Subject: Re: UNIX-type PC Shell
Message-ID: <736@bcsaic.UUCP>
Date: 18 Oct 86 01:45:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: bcsaic.736
Posted: Fri Oct 17 20:45:19 1986
Date-Received: 20 Oct 86 00:13:04 GMT
References: <797@ihlpf.UUCP>
Reply-To: paula@bcsaic.UUCP (paul allen)
Distribution: net
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle
Lines: 45
>I have read of two UNIX-like shells for the PC. They are:
> 1. Dr. Dobb's Journal of Software Tools
> 501 Galveston Dr. - Redwood City, CA 94063
> Shell=$29.95; /util=$29.95; Both=$50.
> 2. Kent William - 722 Rundell St. - Iowa City, IA 52240
> Donation=$25. - will send compiled version & "C" source
>I don't know anything about either of these two, other than what I read in
>an ad. Anyone have any experience?
I recently got version 2.9 (I think) of Kent Williams' PC-SHELL off the
net. I have a Zenith Z-100 computer, which runs MS-DOS, but is not
IBM-compatible (thank the local deity!). In particular, I don't have
the IBM ROM BIOS interrupts. Kent's documentation says that he has
re-written the screen-handling portions of his code to not use the IBM
screen interrupt. Sure enough, PC-SHELL has no trouble talking to my
screen. It didn't take long, however, to discover several problems that
have caused me to stop using PC-SHELL.
The shell script stuff does not work. It appears to get stuck
in a loop putting garbage on the screen. I had to reboot to recover.
Maybe this works on a PC with PC-DOS.
PC-SHELL cannot cooexist with the PRINT spooler. In his (very
helpful) documentation, Kent notes that it gets "all hosed up". Again,
I had to reboot when I tested this out.
When I invoke my favorite editor, (BSE, from Zenith) it cannot
find the file I asked it to edit. (??!?!) I didn't take time to try to
figure this one out.
If it weren't for these problems, I would love to run Kent's shell. The
alias and history stuff is really nice.
I don't know anything about the Dr. Dobbs shell. Please post your
results. Thanks.
Paul Allen
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Paul L. Allen
Boeing Computer Services Artificial Intelligence Center
...!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bcsaic!paula
From: p40001@mcomp.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.micro.pc
Subject: UNIX-like Shells for MS-DOS
Message-ID: <10800034@mcomp>
Date: 18 Oct 86 00:21:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcomp.10800034
Posted: Fri Oct 17 19:21:00 1986
Date-Received: 20 Oct 86 00:19:21 GMT
Lines: 58
Nf-ID: #N:mcomp:10800034:000:2972
Nf-From: mcomp.UUCP!p40001 Oct 17 19:21:00 1986
My response to the "UNIX-like PC-Shell" note by ihlpf!alt was sent out
incomplete, so here it is again, with all the info:
> I have read of two UNIX-like shells for the PC. They are:
> 1. Dr. Dobb's Journal of Software Tools
> 501 Galveston Dr. - Redwood City, CA 94063
> Shell=$29.95; /util=$29.95; Both=$50.
> 2. Kent William - 722 Rundell St. - Iowa City, IA 52240
> Donation=$25. - will send compiled version & "C" source
> I don't know anything about either of these two, other than what I read in
> an ad. Anyone have any experience?
I have not used the Holub-Shell ( #1 above); Kent William's PC-shell (#2) is
quite nice but introduces a number of deviations from C-Shell syntax which
I find annoying. Also, both PC-Shell, as well as the shell listed as #3 below
have slight troubles with programs which have the '/' hard-wired into them
as the switch character (i.e. DOS LINK, and a few other programs.). Also,
PC-Shell will not run well apart from COMMAND.COM - it has to be started
on top of COMMAND.COM, not instead of it.
I would like to list two other shells currently available and mention
one about to be released:
3. Micro C-Shell, by David Beckemeyer. He advertises in Dr. Dobb's,
and his shell runs well as a replacement for COMMAND.COM. It is fairly
close to the UNIX C-Shell, and sells for ca. $40.
4. Percent Shell, from Thompson Automation. This seems (from literature
I have received) one of the most complete and thought-through
products of this type, with solutions even for the switch character
problem mentioned above. It sells for $95, from Thompson
Automation, P.O.Box 5163, Beaverton, OR 97006; 503-645-9434.
5. MKS Korn Shell -- due for beta testing in November. This is part of
version 2.1 of the MKS Toolkit. The entire toolkit, which includes
such goodies as sed, awk, vi/ex, etc., sells for $139 from
MKS, 43 Bridgeport Rd. East, Waterloo, Ont. N2J 2J4, Canada; phone
519-884-2251; uucp ihnp4!watmath!mks!toolkit.
One of the nice things about the MKS toolkit is that they attempt
to provide extremely complete implementations, based on SVR2; I
expect their KORN shell to fit that pattern, supporting every
feature that can possibly be implemented under MS-DOS.
Note that my only connection with both David Beckemeyer and MKS is as a
very satisfied customer, and I have no connection with Thompson Automation.
Note also that both MKS and Thompson have extremely generous discounts for
folks who buy more than one copy of the product; MKS lets you make additional
copies of both software and documentation for $60 each, and Thompson will
sell 2-4 copies for 66.50 each, 5-9 copies for $57 each, etc.
-----------------------------------------------------
Wolf N. Paul, 290 Dogwood, Plano, Tx. 75075
UUCP: ihnp4!convex!mcomp!doulos!wnp
or ihnp4!convex!mcomp!p40001
Phone: (214) 578-8023 W.U.ESL: 6283-2882
From: tes@whuts.UUCP (STERKEL)
Newsgroups: net.micro.pc
Subject: Why I do not use Re: PC-SHELL software for PC
Message-ID: <1026@whuts.UUCP>
Date: 27 Oct 86 11:49:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: whuts.1026
Posted: Mon Oct 27 05:49:51 1986
Date-Received: 28 Oct 86 10:18:49 GMT
References: <205@sbcs.UUCP> <12800021@gorgo.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 36
>
> /* Written 2:41 pm Oct 15, 1986 by asf@sbcs.UUCP in gorgo.UUCP:net.micro.pc */
> /* ---------- "Re: PC-SHELL software for PC" ---------- */
> >
> > Do any of you folks know where I can obtain a copy of PC-SHELL, which is
> > Gene Lee UUCP: ...ihnp4!{meccts,dayton,rosevax}!ems!A60!lee
> > Sperry Corporation ATT: (612) 635-6042
>
> Me too!! Thank you.
> Alan S. Fink
> UUCP: {allegra, hocsd, philabs, ogcvax}!sbcs!asf
> PC-SHELL is avaliable from many bbs's, including mine: call
> (405) 728-2463 between 7:15am and 3:00am, 2400/1200/300 bps.
I downloaded pc-shell from net.sources three times
over the last few months until one actually worked.
The good news is heavily tainted with bad.
Specifically, pc-shell is written in a manner
deleterious to ram resident programs, (PCDOS Print,
PCMAG cache, parity interupt monitors, Borland
Lightning, and probably Sidekick, Borbaki 1dir,
probably XYwrite, probably SmartCom II, etc., etc.,
etc.) (the "probably" means that I did not fully
test before I gave up and deleted pc-shell off my
disk.)
Use pc-shell if you must have UNIX (tm) type
commands, and do not have the talent to *.bat
reasonably emulations of them. (the history, and
fgrep were *very* nice and definitely not *.bat
material.) BUT forget compatibility with other
memory resident programs.
sorry.
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 86 09:36:17 edt
From: im4u!ut-sally!nike!ll-xn!scubed!sdcsvax!dcdwest!ittatc!ittvax!jeffd@oakhill.uucp (Jeff Denenberg)
To: tomc@oakhill.uucp
Subject: Re: PC-Shell vs. Holub Shell
In response to your request for information on "UNIX - like" shells,
I am a happy user of pc-shell and the MKS unix utility set. The combination
results in a usefull environment for people with a UNIX background. I am
careful to avoid running DOS turnkey applications under the shell but all
administrative activities take place with it active. It is likely, however,
that the KORN shell from MKS (due in December, 1986 as part of the version 2
release of MKS) will replace pc-shell in my daily use.
Jeff Denenberg
..!decvax!ittvax!jeffd
--
Tom Cunningham "Good, fast, cheap -- select two."
USPS: Motorola Inc. 6501 William Cannon Dr. W. Austin, TX 78735-8598
UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax,gatech}!ut-sally!oakhill!tomc
Phone: 512-440-2953