[comp.sys.ibm.pc] C compilers?

vanzandt@uiucdcsp.UUCP (12/11/86)

	Question: If I were to buy a C compiler for my AT, which one
	should I buy?

brimoe@hope.UUCP (Brian Bender) (12/14/86)

> 
> 
> 	Question: If I were to buy a C compiler for my AT, which one
> 	should I buy?

Aztec C all the way!!!
	its expensive but all good things are and aztec is worth it!

	Brian(moe) @ unixversity of calif riverside

vanzandt@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu (12/16/86)

	The result is unanimous: Quite a few people mailed me their
opinion and 99.9% of you said Microsoft C was the compiler of choice.

	Thank you for your comments,

	Lonnie.

+=============================================================================+
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+=============================================================================+

bright@dataio.Data-IO.COM (Walter Bright) (12/16/86)

In article <75800002@uiucdcsp> vanzandt@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>	Question: If I were to buy a C compiler for my AT, which one
>	should I buy?

That's easy. By Datalight C. It costs $99, and is available from:
(206) 367-1803.

ss60f@sdcc18.ucsd.EDU (ss60f) (12/17/86)

---------------

Re Aztec C: not a bad recommendation.  I have the latest version
(3.40) and have run a lot of code through it, with no problems.  The
executables it produces are smaller than many other compilers, and
it does a reasonably good job at speed optimization.  It is also nice
to have the library source.

I have had some trouble with the Aztec debuggers: they do not seem
to work properly when the console is set to character mode, no echo.
This is true of the new symbolic debugger as well as the older db.
Although I haven't used it, my impression from ads/reviews is that
the Codeview debugger that comes with the new Microsoft C compiler
(4.00) is superior.  The availability of good debugging tools can
make a big difference in how much code you can turn out and how fast,
so this is an important consideration.  Microsoft also has good benchmark
results.  No library source, though.

Dr. Dobb's Journal, Aug. 1986 has a good review of C compilers
including Microsoft 4.00 and the next-to-latest version of Aztec C.

  -Jon Dart
   Dept. of Anthropology
   UCSD C-001
   La Jolla, CA 92093

   ss60f%sdcc18@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU

news@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Usenet netnews) (12/17/86)

Organization : California Institute of Technology
Keywords: 
From: tim@tomcat.Caltech.Edu (Tim Kay)
Path: tomcat!tim

In article <1218@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>In article <75800002@uiucdcsp> vanzandt@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>>	Question: If I were to buy a C compiler for my AT, which one
>>	should I buy?
>
>That's easy. By Datalight C. It costs $99, and is available from:
>(206) 367-1803.

It's even easier by that argument.  By Mix C.  It costs only $39, and is
available from Mix Software, Inc., 2116 E. Arapaho, Suite 363,
Richardson, Texas  75081, 214-783-6001.

It seems to be a reliable compiler, but I have only used it for small
programs.

Timothy L. Kay				tim@csvax.caltech.edu
Department of Computer Science
Caltech, 256-80
Pasadena, CA  91125

tfra@ur-tut.UUCP (Tom Frauenhofer) (12/17/86)

[Et tu, line-eater?]

> Re Aztec C: not a bad recommendation.  I have the latest version
> (3.40) and have run a lot of code through it, with no problems.  The
> executables it produces are smaller than many other compilers, and
> it does a reasonably good job at speed optimization.  It is also nice
> to have the library source.

> I have had some trouble with the Aztec debuggers: they do not seem
> to work properly when the console is set to character mode, no echo.
> This is true of the new symbolic debugger as well as the older db.
> Although I haven't used it, my impression from ads/reviews is that
> the Codeview debugger that comes with the new Microsoft C compiler
> (4.00) is superior.  The availability of good debugging tools can
> make a big difference in how much code you can turn out and how fast,
> so this is an important consideration.  Microsoft also has good benchmark
> results.  No library source, though.

>  -Jon Dart

I make use of both AZTEC C (version 3.20) and MS C (Version 4.0).  For a
project my company is working on I had to determine which of the two 
compilers to use.  I ran the dhrystone benchmark on both compilers using
the small and large memory models only (the version of AZTEC we have doesn't
allow the mixed models).  A typical MSC dhrystone was around 1400; a 
typical AZTEC dhrystone was around 3200. Other benchmarks showed similar
results.

Another important result was the size of the object and executable code 
generated by the two compilers.  I compiled abouttwenty different programs
and linked them together, again under the small and large memory models.
Aztec files were typically about 1/2 to 2/3rds the size of MSC files.
This was the same whether we were looking at object or executable files.

One more test that I ran on Aztec was the conversion of object to the
Microsoft .OBJ format using tools provided by Aztec.  While there was a slight
increase in code size (typically less than 100 bytes for an object module)
when compared with MSC it was still smaller.  I also converted the libraries
and used Microsoft's linker to link the stuff together.  The dhrystone results
were a hair slower, but not enough to comment on (maybe 3000 instead of 3200).

Oh, my hardware base was an IBM AT with a 30 meg hard disk, 512K memory,
PC-DOS Version 3.2, running at 8 MHz.

My conclusion was that Aztec gave us more bang for the buck than Microsoft.
I didn't try out either debugger (CodeView or db) but I usually find
debuggers of limited help - What usually works better for me is to let
someone else look at my code (unfortunately, it is accompanied by comments
like stupid mistake or the like- maybe I should use a debugger after 
all :-).  Programs seem to run with little modification under either compiler.

I also have an older rev of Ecosoft C.  If I have a chance, I will try my
tests on it to see what happens.

- Tom Frauenhofer

...!seismo!rochester!ur-tut!tfra

"Aha, Zander Zlaslowych!  You thought you could defeat me, but I still have
 my feet!"

stevenj@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Steven Vore ) (12/18/86)

In article <1358@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> tim@tomcat.UUCP (Tim Kay) writes:
>In article <1218@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes
>>In article <75800002@uiucdcsp> vanzandt@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>>>	Question: If I were to buy a C compiler for my AT, which one
>>>	should I buy?
>>That's easy. By Datalight C. It costs $99, and is available from:
>>(206) 367-1803.
>It's even easier by that argument.  By Mix C.  It costs only $39, and is
>It seems to be a reliable compiler, but I have only used it for small
>programs.
>Timothy L. Kay				tim@csvax.caltech.edu


reliable, mabye, but it produces S-L-O-W programs.  Check out an article
in a recent Dr. Dobbs (sorry for no date, but I'm at work and the mag's at
home) called  'Benchmarking C compilers'.   I've been looking too, and I'm 
probably going to follow Mr. Bright and go with Datalight.

Steven J. Vore           stevenj@umbc3.umd.edu

--------------------
MY opinions, only MINE.  belonging only to ME (and others who know what's
                                               correct, of course)

rde@ukc.ac.uk (R.D.Eager) (12/19/86)

In article <1218@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>In article <75800002@uiucdcsp> vanzandt@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>>	Question: If I were to buy a C compiler for my AT, which one
>>	should I buy?
>
>That's easy. By Datalight C. It costs $99, and is available from:
>(206) 367-1803.


I  just  read this after posting my opinion of Zorland C. Looks to me as
if it is the same compiler  (I  always  thought  it  originated  in  the
USA). The  giveaway  is  that  the compiler (Zorland, that is) outputs a
message saying it was written by Walter Bright....

I'm not knocking him, he has every right to advertise a good product.
-- 
           Bob Eager

           rde@ukc.UUCP
           rde@ukc
           ...!mcvax!ukc!rde

           Phone: +44 227 66822 ext 7589

steveb@zaphod.UUCP (Steve Brozosky) (12/20/86)

In article <75800002@uiucdcsp>, vanzandt@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
> 
> 
> 	Question: If I were to buy a C compiler for my AT, which one
> 	should I buy?

 I have found that Microsoft has the best C.  If have used both it and
 the lattice compilers.  Also, since Microsoft controls the operating
 systems, when it makes a change to DOS (e.g. DOS 5) they will be the
 first to update their C for it.

 I have also had very good luck in taking sources from UNIX and compiling
 them on DOS with the Microsoft Compiler.

psfales@ihlpl.UUCP (Peter Fales) (12/21/86)

> >That's easy. By Datalight C. It costs $99, and is available from:
> >(206) 367-1803.
> 
> It's even easier by that argument.  By Mix C.  It costs only $39, and is
> available from Mix Software, Inc., 2116 E. Arapaho, Suite 363,
> Richardson, Texas  75081, 214-783-6001.

I have a copy of Mix C (purchased for $39) which I would gladly sell for
the cost of shipping the manuals to anyone interested.  The manuals are
a reasonably good C tutorial, but I was quite unimpressed with the
compiler.  It does not produces standard .OBJ files and therefore cannot
be linked with the output of other compilers or assemblers.  The programs
do not stand alone, but require an overlay file present on the disk (though
to be fair, there is a way around that).  However, the worst complaint
I have is that the performance is very poor.  I wrote a program that did
nothing more than open a file and  print the bytes in hex.  One can
see a noticeable slowdown in comparing the hex output to the title lines
that were done with a simple printf.  Admittedly, this is not  much of a
benchmark but it didn't encourage me to try much more.  The whole package
seemed to have sort af a "toy" feel to it.

The compiler that I swear by is the ECO-C88 Compiler for $59 from
Ecosoft, Inc.; 6413 N College Ave.;Indianopois, IN 46220. (312)255-6476.
Features include: All C features, data types (except bit-fields), and
operators.  Tiered error checking - at high levels it checks many of 
the same things that lint does.  Excellent set of library functions
including many that are System V compatible.  A great product at a great
price.

-- 
Peter Fales		UUCP:	...ihnp4!ihlpl!psfales
			work:	(312) 979-7784
				AT&T Information Systems, IW 1Z-243
				1100 E. Warrenville Rd., IL 60566