godawski@usceast.UUCP (03/25/87)
Anybody know why I can not make flippy floppys (use a dsdd disk as 2 ssdd
floppy disks) on my IBM-PC compatible? I have cut a precision (as precision
as a rasor blade can get) notch on the opposite side of the other wr. pro.
notch, and when I put the disk in upside down to format a:/1, I get
a format failure on drive A:. When I format a: (with the disk the "proper"
way, I have no problems--I get 360K free with NO bad sectors).
Does my problem have to do with the little hole by the hub hole, or lack
thereof on the side in question?
If you are wondering WHY somebody would want to do something like this, our
DEC Rainbows read IBM ssdd floppys, and when I bring stuff to school, I
could theoretically have stuff on each side of the disks saving the number
of disks that I have to tie up as ssdd.
Please post to net or reply to me directly. I'm sure I'm not the only one
out there wondering why we can't do this.
Thank you.
Mike Godawski {ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!akgua!usceast!godawski
1907A Wheat Street
Columbia SC 29205
{line eater, eat this! [-}tr@thumper.UUCP (03/25/87)
In article <2354@usceast.UUCP>, godawski@usceast.UUCP (Mike Godawski) writes: > Anybody know why I can not make flippy floppys (use a dsdd disk as 2 ssdd > floppy disks) on my IBM-PC compatible? I have cut a precision (as precision > as a rasor blade can get) notch on the opposite side of the other wr. pro. > notch, and when I put the disk in upside down to format a:/1, I get > a format failure on drive A:. When I format a: (with the disk the "proper" > way, I have no problems--I get 360K free with NO bad sectors). > > Does my problem have to do with the little hole by the hub hole, or lack > thereof on the side in question? > > [...] > > Mike Godawski {ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!akgua!usceast!godawski Yes, you need the hole in the other side. This will make it work. I think you need the hole on both faces of the jacket too. But you shouldn't do this. I understand that there is a fabric on the inside of the jacket that serves as a brush. It cleans the disk as the disk rotates. The fibers of the fabric are pointed in one direction, as on a lint brush you use for clothes. You could ruin your disk by spinning it the wrong way. When you ruin your disk, you lose your data. Which is more valuable? Have you ever heard the expression "penny wise, pound foolish"? Tom Reingold INTERNET: tr@bellcore.com -------- UUCP: ---- watmath!clyde!bellcore\ ucbvax\ \ lll-lcc\ ihnp4!mhuxt!ulysses!faline!flash!tr seismo!rutgers!mit-eddie!allegra/ -- Tom Reingold Internet: tr@bellcore.com Uucp: ..!allegra!ulysses!faline!flash!tr
skhurana@watnot.UUCP (03/25/87)
In article <2354@usceast.UUCP> godawski@usceast.UUCP (Mike godawski) writes: >Anybody know why I can not make flippy floppys (use a dsdd disk as 2 ssdd >floppy disks) on my IBM-PC compatible? ..... > >Does my problem have to do with the little hole by the hub hole, or lack >thereof on the side in question? That is the reason why you cannot use the other side, you need an index hole on the other side of the hub of the diskette. This is generally used by the disk controller to find track zero on the disk so it can read the directory. If you really wanted to use the other side you could CAREFULLY make another little hole with a hole puncher perhaps (although a U shaped notch would be easier to make with a sharp pair of sissors) on both faces of the disk. I wouldn't recommend it as you might ruin the disk. >Mike Godawski {ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!akgua!usceast!godawski -Sanjiv --------------------------------------------------------------------- sanity: live to rn...rn to live --------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP : {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!watnot!skhurana CSNET : skhurana%watnot@waterloo.CSNET ARPA : skhurana%watnot%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa ---------------------------------------------------------------------
smvorkoetter@watmum.UUCP (03/26/87)
You have to have a round index hole opposite the existing one. The easiest way to make this is with a one hole punch (the plier type). You won't wreck the disk surface, because if you reach in far enough to punch the hole, the tool will not reach as far as the recording area. DO NOT punch through the entire disk, just through the jacket on each side. The best way to find out where to put the hole is to use an old floppy jacket as a template. WARNING: Flippy disks are not recommended. When the disk spins one way, all the dust and dirt gets pushed into the lined "downspin" of it. When you flip it, all the dust comes out of the liner, visits your disk drive head briefly (maybe leaving a few canyons) and goes into the liner on the other side. This is not good for your disk drives.
tj@mks.UUCP (03/26/87)
In article <2354@usceast.UUCP>, godawski@usceast.UUCP (Mike Godawski) writes: > Anybody know why I can not make flippy floppys (use a dsdd disk as 2 ssdd > floppy disks) on my IBM-PC compatible? I have cut a precision (as precision > as a rasor blade can get) notch on the opposite side of the other wr. pro. > notch, and when I put the disk in upside down to format a:/1, I get > a format failure on drive A:. When I format a: (with the disk the "proper" > way, I have no problems--I get 360K free with NO bad sectors). -------__------------------------- | | | | | | | ( ) | | ----- | | / \ _______ | | { } ( )| | \ / ~~~~~~~ | | ----- | | ( ) <============ You need this hole also (in jacket only) | | so flippy looks the same from both sides. | | You might be able to do it very carefully | __ | with a paper punch. Good luck! ------- ------------------------- -- ll // // ,~/~~\' T. J. Thompson {decvax,ihnp4,seismo}!watmath!mks!tj /ll/// //l' `\\\ Mortice Kern Systems Inc. / l //_// ll\___/ 43 Bridgeport Rd. E., Waterloo, ON, Can. N2J 2J4 O_/ (519)884-2251
perkins@bnrmtv.UUCP (03/26/87)
> Anybody know why I can not make flippy floppys (use a dsdd disk as 2 ssdd > floppy disks) on my IBM-PC compatible? > > Mike Godawski {ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!akgua!usceast!godawski The answer is in the disk pads. These are the white sheets between the floppy disk and its outside envelope. The disk pads are designed to pick up and hold onto loose oxide that flakes off the disk. They only work in one direction. If you reverse the rotation, you'll be knocking the loose crud out of the disk pads and back onto the disk. The result is that you can't reliably read or write the disk because of all the crud getting between the disk and the head. -- {hplabs,amdahl,3comvax}!bnrmtv!perkins --Henry Perkins It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck? One in a million, perhaps.
john@xanth.UUCP (03/26/87)
[I'm adding comp.sys.misc to the Newsgroups for this article, since this should be of general interest. (Not high interest, just general interest... :-) )] In article <2354@usceast.UUCP>, godawski@usceast.UUCP (Mike Godawski) writes: > Anybody know why I can not make flippy floppys (use a dsdd disk as 2 ssdd > floppy disks) on my IBM-PC compatible? I have cut a precision (as precision > as a rasor blade can get) notch on the opposite side of the other wr. pro. > notch, and when I put the disk in upside down to format a:/1, I get > a format failure on drive A:. > Does my problem have to do with the little hole by the hub hole, or lack > thereof on the side in question? Indeed it does. Here's what I used to do (on a TRS-80 Model I - 100K per disk side!): - Take a thin sheet of paper and trace out a floppy disk, including the write protect notch, the little index hole (next to the hub hole), and the hub hole. - Take a sheet of moderately steady light cardboard or heavy paper and trace the lines you've drawn on the thin sheet into it (may involve a very sharp pencil or the tip of an x-acto knife). Discard the thin sheet. Cut out the simple square of the outer edge of the disk. - Using a standard hole punch (you don't need to be quite that precise with the write-protect notch), make a semi-circular or larger punch that inscribes the rectangle of the original write-protect notch. Be sure not to go much farther towards the interior of the diskette, or you will punch through your diskette media when you get to the later steps! - Cut out, roughly if necessary, the center hub hole. - Taking advantage of this hole, use your hole punch to punch the round index hole. You now have a diskette template that you can use to make your diskettes flippy. For each diskette: - Line up the template appropriately and punch out the write-protect semi-circle. Also, in pencil, fill in the circle of the index hole through the hole in the template. (Filling it in instead of just tracing the circle makes it much easier to see.) Do the same with the index hole on the other surface of the diskette jacket. - VERY CAREFULLY insert your hole punch at the center hub, such that the "lower lip" is between the jacket and the diskette media. Punch out the index hole on that side. Do the same on the other side. BE SURE TO COLLECT THE "JACKET HOLE" THAT IS LEFT OVER. (If you have a nice punch it'll do this for you.) Don't insert the "lip" any farther than necessary, or you may scratch the data-carrying part of the media. That's all there is to it. I've done it on over 50 diskettes and have never had a problem due to this procedure. Maybe one out of 20 will be unusable on the "back" side, but that was with SSSD diskettes. If you actually buy diskettes rated as double-sided, you'll do much better.... -- John Owens Old Dominion University - Norfolk, Virginia, USA john@ODU.EDU old arpa: john%odu.edu@RELAY.CS.NET +1 804 440 3915 old uucp: {seismo,harvard,sun,hoptoad}!xanth!john
zhahai@gaia.UUCP (03/26/87)
Yes, your problem in trying to flip a DSDD floppy over to use as 2 SSDD
floppies probably is the index hole (the little hole near the center hub),
since you have already cut a new write protect notch. Cutting another
index hole might work if you can do it without damaging the media or jacket.
Of course, flipping diskettes has been criticised on the grounds that dirt
tends to be picked up by the liner, and that spinning the disk backwards will
redeposit such back on the disk surface - I don't know if this is really
significant or another new wives tale. In any case, floppies can be had
pretty cheaply - why not just get an extra box for use in transferring
between the DSDD & SSDD systems and be safe? ~z~
--
Zhahai Stewart
{hao | nbires}!gaia!zhahaiboykin@custom.UUCP (03/27/87)
In article <2354@usceast.UUCP>, godawski@usceast.UUCP (Mike Godawski) writes: > Anybody know why I can not make flippy floppys (use a dsdd disk as 2 ssdd > floppy disks) on my IBM-PC compatible? I have cut a precision (as precision > as a rasor blade can get) notch on the opposite side of the other wr. pro. > notch, and when I put the disk in upside down to format a:/1, I get > a format failure on drive A:. To make 'flippy' disk you not only need to cut the write protect notch, but to cut another index hole. Without the hole you'll get a 'drive not ready' error. If you're going to do this alot (which isn't a great idea!) there have been devices sold which will make the cuts for you. -- Joe Boykin Custom Software Systems ...{necntc, frog}!custom!boykin