iks@psuvm.bitnet.UUCP (04/22/87)
April 9, 1987 -- OS/2 Conference at 9:30 PM EDT, featuring Mark Mackaman, OS/2
Product Manager at Microsoft, Inc.
(18,ROBERT KYANKO) IS THIS THE CONFERENCE ROOM FOR THE MICROSOFT SPEAKER?
(18,Microsoft) Yes.
(18,Noel) doug, r u waiting for the LCC cable? I heard there was a shortage
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Noel, yes. None have shipped from Intel yet (LCC).
All --> People are starting to come in, and we should be starting in ...
All --> about 5 more minutes.
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Mark - in case it doesn't get mentioned, thanks for being here!
(18,Microsoft) and (hopefully) Gordon Letwin (Chief Designer ) are here...
(18,Microsoft) Microsoft or MS is easiest I think
(18,Microsoft) ga
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Gordon Letwin - is that name from the Microsoft Adventure?
ALL!!!!!! Let's get started. NO COMMENTS PLEASE FOR A MINUTE!
Welcome to The on-line conference about the new Microsoft operating ...
System, and other related matters. We have representatives from ...
Microsoft here to answer any and all possible questions ... Mark Mackaman,
The OS/2 product manager, and Adrian King, the OS/2 Marketing Manager ...
As well as some other notables hidden behind the name, 'MS'. ....
I will be moderating this CO ... Mark will make some opening statements ...
and then I will throw it open for questions. When you have a quiestion ...
just type '??' at any time .... I will call your name as soon as you ...
get to the top of the list. When I say, 'joe, go!' or something ...
similar, start talking. I'd like this to move as fast as possible, ...
and keep the side chatter to a minimum. And now, from Microsoft ....
Mark Mackaman!
(18,MS) Welcome! This is a new experience for microsoft... before we get started
(18,MS) we want to make people aware of the software ddvevlopment kit that
(18,MS) was announced last thursday...
(18,MS) the kit provides app developers with early acccess to the OS?2 environment
(18,MS) and includes beta copies of os/2, windows, 'c', MASM, along with support
(18,MS) from Microsoft (via DIAL and direct phone)
(18,MS) People who purchase the SDK (software devl. kit) prior to june
(18,MS) will receive the software doc. before the published aug. 1 ship date.
(18,MS) The spaces are going quick in our first conf. scheduled for june in
(18,MS) seattle, so we suggest that you hurry and reserve a space, if interested,
(18,MS) by purchansing a SDK...
(18,MS) Now, we're ready for questions from the reading audience:
(18,MS) ga
(18,davey) what about cobol su[port for the os2 environment...
(18,davey) nt all of us out there love c and semi colons...
(18,davey) also multiple terminal and user support for the model 80 config
(18,davey) ga
(18,MS) IBM announced a cobol/2 which is ryan-mcfarlan (sp?) cobol
(18,MS) we haven't announced a cobol product.
(18,MS) As for multi-terminal and user.... the system doesn't support
(18,MS) that formally, because we think that this is primarily a
(18,MS) user-per-box environment. Its logically multiuser via the net.
(18,MS) It is possible to support multiple users, easily. The bigest problem
(18,MS) is that the hardware and the system architecture only supports
(18,MS) one hires graphics device... your other users would have to be serial
(18,MS) ports. If this is OK, then its pretty easy to write a program that
(18,MS) opens a COM port on STDIN,STDOUT and then runs child programs.
Mark -->I think he was trying to find out if you're *going* to announce ...
Mark -->a cobol for OS/2 separate from IBM.
(18,MS) You'll have to make sure that you don't runapps that want the graphics device...
(18,MS) kinda specialeid, which is why we don't support it
(18,MS) The people here tonight don't know if we'll announce a Cobol...
(18,MS) we have OS markenting and techies, nobody from lang. Sorry
(18,MS) ga
Alan H -- your turn.
(18,davey) will ms support /v
(18,MS) what is "/v"?
(18,MS) ga
(18,AlanH) pleaseplease say more about data exchange and intertask comm. any chance of passing objects?
(18,AlanH) ga
(18,MS) There are lots of ways to pass objects. The most formal "object" structure
(18,MS) would be via the Queue mechanism. We have N IPC data mechanisms:
(18,MS) 1) anon. pipes (ala unix)
(18,MS) 2) named shared memory
(18,MS) 3) queues
(18,MS) 4) via files and semaphores
(18,MS) and a few ways to flag processes back and forth, a kind of IPC
(18,MS) ga
(18,Robert Kyanko) Is the operating system going to be available separatly, and C as well?
(18,Robert Kyanko) I can't afford $3000
(18,MS) The OS will be sold seperately from the SDK in the future, from a
(18,MS) varieyt of OEMs. About 1Q 1988. The SDK is beta release software
(18,MS) which is updated frequently and supported heavily, aimed at those
(18,MS) doing professional software dvlmht...
(18,MS) C also will be a retail product aq1` 88 (1q)
(18,MS) ga
(18,margaret) why develop under Windows (ie: v2.0) vs Os/2 and what accounts for the 25...
(18,margaret) 30% coding change for an app. to be converted from Windows to OS/2?
(18,margaret) ga
(18,MS) Windows provides a standard hires user interface... you can write
(18,MS) your own under OS/2, but OS/2 w/o the windows part of it won't do it
(18,MS) for you. If you use windows you can run your app now, under DOS,
(18,MS) and have that binary run under OS/2 in the compatibility box.
(18,MS) THe changes were forced because of the need to add IBM's "mainframe"
(18,MS) graphics capabilities to the product. GDDM.
(18,MS) Once that change was mandated, we took advantage of the oprotunity
(18,MS) to clean up some naming, etc. Most of the changes are lexical
(18,MS) in nature, not much redeisgn is needed. We also added features
(18,MS) that were requested by current windows developers.
(18,MS) ga
(18,JimD) will OS/2 and XENIX run concurrently on 386 machines?
(18,JimD) Can OS/2 support real-time applications?
(18,JimD) ga
(18,MS) OS/2 and xenix don't run concurrently.
(18,MS) Serially, of course, indifferent disk partitions.
(18,MS) OS/2 has several real time support features - a high priroty
(18,MS) scheduleing mechansm that guarantees response in about 10 ms.
(18,MS) Also guarantees interrupt response at some number - forget what it is.
(18,MS) So its "pretty real time like", but its not a dedicated RT system.
(18,MS) ga
(18,davey) i would like to know if os/2 will support mini type applkications....
(18,davey) are my current AT"s going to run os/2 or mustr i scrap the
(18,davey) also will ms support or market their own network in the future...
(18,davey) note that i"m basically an applications pgr"mr
(18,davey) ga
(18,MS) Dunno what a "mini type" app is. There is full multitasking, and
(18,MS) full unix-like execution and control of child processes. You can
(18,MS) invoke programs to do work for your program. Main issue is the
(18,MS) segmented architecture - you'll need to be large model if you're
(18,MS) big.
(18,MS) Current ATs run OS/2. You'll want to add RAM if you havent'
(18,MS) MS has announced "LAN Manager" which is a network software product.
(18,MS) We don't sell the wires or cards
(18,MS) ga
(18,DavidM) What is the difference between developing for MS Windows...
(18,DavidM) and IBM's Presentation Manager...
(18,DavidM) Is there a possibility that two versions of code will...
(18,DavidM) have to be created maintained? Also does MS...
(18,DavidM) Plan an equivalent to IBM's OS/2 1.1 (extended edition) ga
(18,MS) There isn't a difference btween IBM pres. mgr and the Microsoft pres. mgr
(18,MS) in the Microsoff OS/2 release. There is a dif. between these two
(18,MS) and the current windows product - the program logic is the same, but
(18,MS) there are some differences in the interface callings equences.
(18,MS) Some editing is needed at the source level, plus changes to windows
(18,MS) apps which use graphics heavily. You'll need 2 versions to support
(18,MS) DOS 8086 machines and OS/2 machines.
(18,MS) No plans for the extended edition function, other than our LAN
(18,MS) software covers the same need as theirs. Note that there is no
(18,MS) API in the os/2 kernel that supports the "extended addition" - the
(18,MS) stuff in that product is really apps, its a marketing strategy to
(18,MS) call them part of the OS
(18,MS) As for RAM, 1.5 meg minimum. If you want to run real mode guys,
(18,MS) recommend that you have 2 meg total. We swap, but it is of
(18,MS) course slower than RAM...
(18,MS) ga
(18,Noel) By queue mechanism, can I assume a generalizd message queue, capable of
(18,Noel) moving different sized objects? R they strictly FIFO? ...
(18,Noel) Re: communications manager, can you give some details, or is that I app?
(18,Noel) er, make that IBM app.
(18,MS) Yes, generalized message queue. Different sized objects
(18,MS) FIFO if you want, I'm pretty sure that you can fetch messages out
(18,MS) in other waqys, too - priority based, for example.
(18,MS) The comm. manager is IBM SNA and multi-buzzword stuff. I don't know
(18,MS) that much about it.
(18,MS) ga
(18,...Ken...) Will I be able to run os/2 on an 8086?
(18,...Ken...) ga
(18,MS) no
(18,MS) must be 286 or 386.
(18,MS) ga
(18,SteveS) I think Noel asked but ...
(18,SteveS) You mentioned GDDM- does this mean SNA gateway in OS/2 lan...
(18,SteveS) and what about data transfers -- standards maybe??
(18,SteveS) you know between MVS/XA ga
(18,MS) GDDM is an IBM graphics standard - Graphical Data ???? Mangager.
(18,MS) GDDM is a vector graphics package.
(18,MS) Windows supprots a data transfer standard - DDE - dynamic data exchange.
(18,MS) THe communications manager is intedned to integrate PCs into an SNA
(18,MS) environemnt, so there must be standards for those data xfers.
(18,MS) Don't know the IBM MVS/SNA env. enough for detailed q's.
(18,MS) ga
(18,margaret) why can't he 87 fp library be accessed in Windows apps and is this also...
(18,margaret) true in OS/2..if so, why?
(18,margaret) ga
(18,MS) Sorry, don't know about this. SOunds like a language issue. Windows 2.0
(18,MS) we believe supports it, as will presentation manager. Its probably
(18,MS) tiekd in with saving the state of the emulator software or something.
(18,MS) ga
(18,JanB) What is the story on Pascal support? IBM said use C but supports a data...
(18,JanB) base language preprocessor. ga
(18,MS) IBM announced a pascal/2, which isn't the MS pascal. We will also
(18,MS) have our pascal product, and it will be supported for presentation
(18,MS) manager (windows) applications under OS/2, but I dont know the date.
(18,MS) Certainly 1Q 88 or after.
(18,MS) o
(18,MS) the data base langauge thing is a SQL related product which
(18,MS) front ends their data base stuff. Its not a true language, or
(18,MS) general purpose...
(18,MS) ga
(18,AlanH) When can i get a windows driver for the 640x480 VGA for my model 60?
(18,AlanH) ga
(18,MS) within the next 30 days - shipped with windows 1.04, which is an update
(18,MS) to the current product.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Robert Kyanko) I keep hearing roomers that dos might run under unix. How much truth is there in this?
(18,Robert Kyanko) on the 386 that is. ga
(18,MS) suggest that you get new roommates. But seriously, folks, there will
(18,MS) be a DOS 3 compatibiltiy support in XENIX, running only DOS 3 and
(18,MS) apps which run under DOS 3
(18,MS) ga
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Are current disk formats supported, and...
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) would OS/2 have anything against a 286 "turnbo" board on a 8088 with...
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) at least 1.5MB memory (that questions is not for me, but others). ga
(18,MS) Yes, the current disk formats are supported.
(18,MS) You can read DOS 2/3 disks and write them w/o any special effort.
(18,MS) The turbo 286 card probably won't work. The 286 chip has major flaws,
(18,MS) it won't mode switch back and forth. OS/2 uses special mode switching
(18,MS) hardware which is built into ATs and clones. Some of the AT plug in
(18,MS) cards support this, with a "special adaptation"; others probably won't.
(18,MS) You'd have to check out each case...
(18,MS) ga
(18,Ross Chappell) came in late.. when will we sign up for Developer kits..
(18,Ross Chappell) && can we run them on new IBM HW?
(18,Ross Chappell) ga
(18,MS) sign up ASAP - 206-8828080, ask for "consumer response"
(18,MS) Seminarse are filling up, so sign up asap for an early slot
(18,MS) They run on ATs and compatibiles - they're an early development environemt.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Ross Chappell) ltold by MS Canada can't accept yet?
(18,MS) dunno.. call the us - 206-882-8080
(18,MS) ga
(18,JimD) is a journaling mechanism supported for mouse and keyboard input?
(18,JimD) ga
(18,MS) they run fine under windows 2.0, althought the windows won't tile,
(18,MS) they overlap. For OS/2 you've got to make some changes. Mostly
(18,MS) lexical rather than structural, but source changes.
(18,MS) No journaling is built in. Can use a facilitiycalled "monitors"
(18,MS) to do it yourself.
(18,MS) ga
(18,davey) about COBOL; can you tell me if RM cobol is the same structure as your cobol..
(18,davey) can ms/dos run as achild under os/2 thru the comm ports as you described in
(18,davey) multiple sessions...
(18,davey) hga
(18,MS) No. sorry.
(18,MS) To both cobol and OS/2 question. There is only one real mode app that
(18,MS) can run at the same time.
(18,MS) This is because the apps run in true real mode, and if we had more
(18,MS) than one they'd fight it out.
(18,MS) ga
(18,...Ken...) Looking at the initial information on OS/2 and the net mgr.
(18,...Ken...) it seems like the network is in place. All you need is the
(18,...Ken...) transition medium. ( RS-232, net boards, etc.)
(18,MS) Yes, with the MS lan manager you're golden. The lan manager stuff
(18,MS) will be one of the updates shipped towards the end of the year for the SDK package. The spec for
(18,...Ken...) sorry repete?
(18,MS) the lan manager is in the first SDK release
(18,MS) ga
(18,MS) ken - ga
(18,MS) True that the network is in place, except for the cards and wires.
(18,MS) The first SDK release has the LAN manager spec; the LAN manager
(18,MS) software will be in an SDK update issued close to the end ofthe year.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Noel) Does MS plan a standard interface to OS/2 comm manager, adhered to by both
(18,Noel) IBMs SNA comm. manager as well as 3rd prty, or is it roll own std time? Do
(18,Noel) you know if Sperry IT has the mode switching hardware? R all AT clones ok?
(18,MS) All true clones are OK. The Sperry IT has the mode switch hardware.
(18,MS) The COMM mgr interface is published by IBM, so that should be the stdnard.
(18,MS) ga
(18,margaret) Guess I get conused:: is it true: Windows is an operating system running...
(18,margaret) applications under DOS. OS/2 is an operating system which Windows can run
(18,margaret) apps under. Yet from a user's view Windows and OS/2 look extremely..
(18,margaret) similar since Windows 2.0 runs on 86/286/386 why switch to OS/2 app
(18,margaret) programming?
(18,margaret) ga
(18,MS) Windows is architecturally an interface package that runs on top of an OS.
(18,MS) DOS 2/3 didn't have enough in them for windows, so windows in that
(18,MS) environment does bring along a lot of OS functionality. Int he OS/2
(18,MS) environemnt, the OS provides everything so windows goes back to being
(18,MS) what he's architected - an interface manager.
(18,MS) Windows under OS/2 is better than under DOS 3 because you get true
(18,MS) multitasking, true asynchronous I/O, and preemptive scheduling.
(18,MS) Also, you can run better daemons such as spoolers, and network stuff in background.
(18,MS) Also, you can switch away from windows apps faster then you can
(18,MS) with windows 2.0, and the switched away from guys can still run,
(18,MS) under os/2
(18,MS) ga
(18,PaulH) Any upgrade type credit for current owners of the C compiler, Masm, etc on
(18,PaulH) purchase of OS/2 SDK?
(18,PaulH) ga
(18,MS) sorry, no
(18,MS) ga
(18,John H.) Will OS/2 allow instantanous text char. display updates via ...
(18,John H.) device drivers which do block copies form the appl. seg to ...
(18,John H.) the video seg., or are we stuck with a choice between a graphic...
(18,John H.) interface, Unix stream I/O and BIOS functions?
(18,John H.) ga
(18,MS) you can write such a driver, but you don't want to.
(18,MS) OS/2 provides a direct hardware interface for apps which want to
(18,MS) paint the screen directly. A call is made, you get a selector
(18,MS) for the screen ram, and you flip the bits yourself, if you want.
(18,MS) The VIO package and the Windows package are actually subroutine
(18,MS) librarys, physically, they don't involve any transion to the kernel
(18,MS) mode or device drivers. Those subr. librs. flip the bits for you.
(18,MS) If you're grapghics or high throughput dont use the stream functions,
(18,MS) use the screen directly. Stream fcns are for apps which can work
(18,MS) with files, such as MASM output messages, etc., and they're not
(18,MS) performance critical
(18,MS) ga
(18,DavidM) Your mentioned the upgrade to Windows 1.04...
(18,DavidM) What about the Windows SDK...
(18,DavidM) and to what level 1.04 or 2.0 or both...
(18,DavidM) also what about availablity ga
(18,MS) hang on...
(18,MS) we don't know about the windows SDK. Sorry.
(18,MS) They'll be an upgrade to the SDK if its needed, but we'renot sure if
(18,MS) its needed... no windows experts here
(18,MS) ga
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) DavidM - I heard it will be inexpensive to 2.0,
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) but no 1.04. Qvail. 3q 87.
(18,DavidM) Doug,<-- thanks
(18,Robert Kyanko) Will large hard disk partitions be supported under OS/2?
(18,Robert Kyanko) ga
(18,Robert Kyanko) and how large?
(18,MS) Re: windows - 1.04 ships in 30 days, 2.0 Q3 87. Upgrades are free or
(18,MS) v. cheap.
(18,MS) Re: partitions
(18,MS) the first release is the same file system - 32 meg limit. (sorry!)
(18,MS) Future release will support large partitions - min of 512 meg.
(18,MS) Might be larger, depends upon how the work fits into th releases.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Robert Kyanko) i.e. plenty
(18,Ross Chappell) 1.. I got garble answer on IBM HW vs Developer Kits..
(18,Ross Chappell) 2.. IBM annouce said rlse 1.1 by 3Q87.. is this mistake
(18,Ross Chappell) ga
(18,MS) the DSK runs on ATs and compatibles, not on new machines.
(18,MS) The 1.1 by 3Q 87 is a mistake. 1.1 is sometime in 88.
(18,MS) ga
(18,EricC) When running a DOS 3.x task in compatibility box...
(18,EricC) can OS/2 still be running multiple background tasks....
(18,EricC) or does it take up the whole system? ga
(18,MS) still full multitasking when the real mode task is running.
(18,MS) THe protect mode backgorund guys can run if they want.
(18,MS) The real mode guy, on the other hand, is frozen when ITS background,
(18,MS) because we can't trust it not to play with the display card, etc.
(18,MS) (hi mani - this is gordonl)
(18,MS) ga
(18,Noel) Is it possible to write OS/2 apps for 286/386 priv levels? In particular,
(18,Noel) what does it take to write app or driver with right to access hardware? Also
(18,Noel) will runtime libs (like from MSC) be available as dynamic libs?
(18,MS) re: priv levels - the full answer is complicated. Generally, no, an app
(18,MS) can't use priv levels. But, an app can ask a device driver for device
(18,MS) access, and if the driver permits then the app can have I/O privildge,
(18,MS) and also direct access to the device's memory mapped area (such as
(18,MS) display cards). The one thing that the app can't do is to take interrupts.
(18,MS) If you gotta have intrs, you gotta write a device driver.
(18,MS) Doubt that the C runtime will be a dynlink library. The dynlink
(18,MS) interface is via a far call far return, which is too expsneive for
(18,MS) runtime library stuff, generally. It also becomes a problem to
(18,MS) have the client app refernece values like _errno, since the dynlink
(18,MS) lib needs _errno in a constant offset for each client, but each
(18,MS) clinet is a differnt app and _errno was at a different addr...
(18,MS) it CAN be done, but its kinda slow so unless your lib is really
(18,MS) fat its best to avoid it
(18,MS) ga
(18,Noel) What do I do if I have designed a custom board and need to talk to it? Do I
(18,Noel) get the info to write a device driver with SDK?
(18,Noel) ga
(18,MS) sdk has the info to write the device driver.
(18,MS) If the driver is just granting said permission, then its a very
(18,MS) small and simple driver
(18,MS) ga
(18,Steve Smith) ok. sorry if this was asked b4...got on late
(18,Steve Smith) what are we talking in terms of Kbytes for OS/2, Windows and
(18,Steve Smith) have you done any benchmarks of apps under OS/2 (faster? slower? same?)
(18,Steve Smith) ga.
(18,MS) minimum consumption is about 100K low, 200K high (above 1 meg).
(18,MS) Total consumption is quite a bit more - forget how big windows is, but
(18,MS) its in the neighborhood of 500k high. A lot of that can swap out
(18,MS) if you aren't using it... it can swap down to about 200K high.
(18,MS) We've been benchmarking heavily. Most things run the same or
(18,MS) a little faster under OS/2. Most kinds of file I/O is either a little
(18,MS) or somewhat faster, due to smarter caching, etc. I forget what runs
(18,MS) slower, but its not important, I remember that...
(18,MS) ga
(18,JohnE) Cost of SDK?
(18,MS) $3000
(18,MS) ga
(18,Ross Chappell) $4,000 in Canada
I probably already know the answer to these, but if I didn't ask ...
people would think I'm getting soft <grin>. What about source code ...
to the C runtime library, and how about TSR support? ga
(18,MS) Sorry, no source code for C runtime. You get source for "startup"
(18,MS) There isn't any TSR, litterally, under OS/2 protect mode because you
(18,MS) don't need to terminate tohang around, and if you dotermiinate there's
(18,MS) no trick to get you a CPU. There are monitors, which allow apps
(18,MS) to monitor data streams to/from devices and to remove or insert or
(18,MS) edit the data. Used for stuff like line printers, keyboard, etc.
(18,MS) also there is a popup facility where an app can command a screen
(18,MS) switch, temporarily, sot hat it can interact. So, you could write
(18,MS) a sidekick like guy by monitoring the keyboard for your magic key,
(18,MS) then popping up.
(18,MS) T&SR works int he compatibiltiy box as well as it does under DOS 3,
(18,MS) which means the standard arbitrary ordering problems if you run many
(18,MS) of them
(18,MS) ga
I just hadda ask <sheepish grin> ... Doug H. go!
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Is there some call based API added to MS-DOS 3.3?
(18,MS) no, the call-based API is for OS/2 protect mode only.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Mani Ulloa) two questions... One Dyn Link one netbios
(18,Mani Ulloa) Is Dyn Link a la windows or through call gates??
(18,Mani Ulloa) ga
(18,MS) First, a re-reply to Doug/powersoft
(18,MS) I forgot about a thing called "family API" - its a call-based API
(18,MS) thats a subset of the OS/2 protect mode API. It allows you to write
(18,MS) a program to this API and link it in such a way that the binary
(18,Mani Ulloa) Boy it reminds me of hacking Multics
(18,Mani Ulloa) ga
(18,MS) runs in protect mode under OS,2 and can also run under DOS 3 and
(18,MS) in the OS/2 DOS 3 comaptibiltiy box, if you wanted to do that.
(18,MS) ITs a trick that links in extra code into the app to support the
(18,MS) calls... the extra sfuff is ingored in protect mode.
(18,MS) Re: dynlink
(18,MS) Dynlinks are just far calls -t hey don't go through call gates and
(18,MS) they are'nt a windows feature -t hey're a DOS feature. The different
(18,MS) difference between dynlink and regular far calls it that the fixup
(18,MS) isn't done at link time, its done either at load time for static
(18,MS) dynlinks or it can be done at runtime with runtime dynlinking.
(18,MS) some of those dynlinks are entry points in to the kernel,
(18,MS) and those ARE call gates, but this is a trick that the app doesn't see.
(18,MS) Windows, as do all system components, is called via dynlinks.
(18,MS) The windows entry points are not call gates - only those functions
(18,MS) of the OS which require kernel ring 0 have call gates.
(18,MS) ga
Before everyone leaves ... the MS folks have agreed to do this again ...
on Monday nite. So I want to offer my thanks to Mark, Adrian and Gordon ...
and a great big welcome back! RossC, go!
(18,Ross Chappell) Can you explain some of 3.3 -> OS/2 compatiblity
(18,Mani Ulloa) netbios q: What extensions? Any remote procedure calls??
(18,Ross Chappell) functions discussed in announcement.. eg CALL function
(18,Ross Chappell) ga
(18,MS) netbios - there are remote procedure calls. DOn't know the details
(18,MS) 3.3 -
(18,MS) 3.3 by itself doesn't have anything to do with os/2 - their
(18,MS) coannouncement is a coincidence. 3.3 supporst 3.5" disks and
(18,MS) multiple disk partitions, and a few tweaks here and there.
(18,MS) The family API stuff I mentioned provides compatibiltiy between
(18,MS) apps written to that OS/2 subset, and those apps run under DOS 2.x
(18,MS) and 3.x, as well as the compatibility box.
(18,MS) ga
*****************************************************************
(18,Jan Bottorff) Any comment on when we might see virtual 8086 mode on a 386 used. ga
(18,MS) The sooner the better, according to the eng. dept. THe official word is "386 release
(18,MS) following about 18 months behind". Of course OS/2 first release
(18,MS) runs on the 386, but it uses it as a high speed 286, no 386
(18,MS) features are exposed in the first os/2 release
(18,MS) ga
(18,John H.) How compatible are appl under OS/2 going to be with the OS for...
(18,John H.) the 386 ga
(18,MS) fully compatible. The 386 OS will be the same OS, architecturally,
(18,MS) with features to allow large segments, linear addressing, and virtual
(18,MS) memory. So 286 OS/2 programs run fine. They get virtual memory,
(18,MS) but they don't get large segments because they don't know to ask
(18,MS) for them...
(18,MS) ga
(18,JohnE) Any conferences like this planned on GEnie?? Besides being Windows developers
(18,JohnE) meeting place, it's also al lot cheaper <GRIN>.
(18,JohnE) ga
(18,MS) none planned at this time
(18,MS) ga
(18,Ross Chappell) do u forsee any incompatiblity between MS & IBM offerings.. particularly
(18,Ross Chappell) between 1.0 & IBM's 1.1 in mixed LAN environment?
(18,Ross Chappell) ga
(18,MS) no incompatibiltiy. The products are jointly developed, and we get
(18,MS) full rights to their source, as they do to ours.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Tim S.) What does the Windows Presentation Manger accomplish, how does it interface...
(18,Tim S.) with Windows, and how will present Winaps be affected? ga
(18,MS) the terminology is confusing. The "windows presentation manager"
(18,MS) is the new term for what used to just called "windows". There is
(18,MS) a change, though, in that IBM's vector graphics mainframe standard
(18,MS) GDDM has been added, and the app interface has been changed, mostly
(18,MS) lexically, and the display is overlapped rather than tiled.
(18,MS) So it doesn't interface with windows, it IS windows.
(18,MS) Present winapps have to be modified to the new interface mandated
(18,MS) by the GDDM integration. Mostly a lexical change, only apps which
(18,MS) are heavily into graphics will need any logical revision.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Craig Mellor) You probably have already covered this but I just tuned
(18,Craig Mellor) in... Can multiple mindows be driven asyncronously by
(18,Craig Mellor) their applications, or is the screen in the active
(18,Craig Mellor) window the only one that is updated?
(18,Craig Mellor) If async screen updates are possible, what is the HW/SW
(18,Craig Mellor) required to do that?
(18,Craig Mellor) ga
(18,MS) OS/2 provides full preemptive scheduling, so multiple apps can
(18,MS) update multiple windows. No HW required, other than the minimum
(18,MS) iron for OS/2. For a windows app, no SW either. Just do your
(18,MS) thing. You're told when you're not the focus anymore, if you care.
(18,MS) You can ignore that and keep updating, or you canhold. Your choice.
(18,MS) ga
(18,Ross Chappell) Do u mean that IBM's 1.1 extended offerings will be offered via MS?
(18,Ross Chappell) & when you said compatible..
(18,Ross Chappell) do you mean that IBM isn't bundling anything to their BIOS?
(18,Ross Chappell) aga
(18,MS) Be clear about versions:
(18,MS) 1.0 and 1.1 are both 'standard edition' OS/2
(18,MS) This is kernel plus presentation manager.
(18,MS) This was the stuff jointly developed and separately marketed.
(18,MS) The extended edition is standard plus Database mgr plus Comms mgr.
(18,MS) Both mgrs are IBM mframe oriented things which IBM did themselves.
(18,MS) They are really sophisticated apps which IBM has chosen to bundle
(18,MS) with the OS as a marketing tactic.
(18,MS) The OS/2 LAN mgr is an MS only product which addresses LA netting.
(18,MS) The IBM Comms mgr is SNS mframe comms stuff (SNA).
(18,MS) ga
(18,Ross Chappell) this would seem to forebode a future divorce in the works!
(18,Ross Chappell) ga
(18,ms) Ross: Definitely not. The OS plus presentation mgr is what we jointly
(18,ms) work on.
(18,ms) IBM has always developed s/w and it makes sense for them to do mframe
(18,ms) oriented apps. There is nothing in the OS which is specifically
(18,ms) there to support the database or comms managaers. Thye could be installed on any OS/2.
(18,ms) Choosing the smae name (which we agreed to share) and talking about
(18,ms) each other in the announcement plus the ongoing JD Agreement would,
(18,ms) we hoped, quash these rumours. But there is always a doomsayer somewhere...
(18,ms) ga
One more question from Craig, and then we'll call it a nite and ...
continue on Monday nite, at 9:30PM EDT, (6:30PM PDT).
(18,Craig Mellor) Some software companies are developing control programs
(18,Craig Mellor) for 386 virtual 8088 mode. This will allow multitasking
(18,Craig Mellor) of current applications. I've heard talk that some may
(18,Craig Mellor) be on the market this spring. Is MS doing anything
(18,Craig Mellor) along those lines?
(18,Craig Mellor) ga
(18,ms) Of course. We try everything. We haven't announced any products though!
(18,ms) ga
(18,Craig Mellor) that you can talk about...
(18,ms) right
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Craig - Windows 386 is expected out about same time as 2.0 (end of year).
(18,ms) vile rumor!
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) From Rick, the head of the project!
Thanks everyone. We'll continue in free-for all for a bit, but this ...
conference is now ended! MANY, MANY thanks to Mark, Adrian and Gordon ...
************* free for all follows <grin>*************
(18,ms) HEad of which project?
(18,Craig Mellor) electronic applause!!!!!
for their frank and open answers to *very* technical questions. Three ...
cheers for MS!
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Rick someone at MS is heading up the Windows 386, he said last week.
Yes, bob?
(18,Noel) <<<applause>>>
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) richard dill.
(18,DavidM) thanks guys, very honest straight to the point answers
(18,Jan Bottorff) Thanks people from MS!!! <applause>
(18,Ross Chappell) very grateful for all the time... & i'll be back monday..
(18,ms) Electronic bows from this side - throw money not flowers.
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) Double thanks for agreeing to come back Monday.
(18,Ray McVay) Chip -- Thanks. I just saw the end as well.
(18,Bob I.) Dito
(18,Craig Mellor) How about virtual money!
(18,JohnE) Thanks to ALL of you at MS? Will WG ever reveal the secret of Yoiuth to the rest of us over 30!!
(18,John H.) Chip, thanks for organizing and overseeing tonight.
(18,ms) the saddest thing is, the engineers don't get a dime of
(18,ms) it!
(18,DavidM) Seriously, thanks for tonight AND the return engagement
(18,Ross Chappell) i don't know about all you guys, but I'm still trying to figure out
(18,Ross Chappell) how much all these announcements are going to cost me
(18,Ross Chappell) NOT THAT I'M COMPLAINING!!!
(18,Jan Bottorff) [Ross-->I'm still debating if I should REALLY develop special for OS/2.
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) JohnE, they said you can request bit access through a device driver.
(18,Jan Bottorff) Ross-->After all, how many millions of 8088 machines are there.
(18,Ross Chappell) Anybody out there running 3Com?
(18,Noel) JohnE <- same raster graphics as Windos plus Vector graphics, I think?
(18,JohnE) Thanks Doug! Hard to read while feeding a 1-week old Jr.
(18,Doug (PowerSoft)) has left
OK guys ... lets all go home and come back on Monday!
(18,John H.) Goodnight everyone, enjoyed it!
****************** end of transcript ****************