japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) (04/24/87)
>I am posting this out of concern because I would not want what has happened >Robert Briggs to happen to any one. > -Indra. > > I've been ripped off to the tune of $700 by PC's Limited, 7801 N. > Lamar, Suite E-200, Austin, TX. > Robert S. Briggs Though I can sympathize with Mr. Briggs' dilemna he has pointed out a very common danger in dealing with mail order equipment or software. PC's Limited for one has had a great deal of bad press in the past and yet they remain in business (and conduct a considerable quanity of business at that!)... In the past 3 years I have seen numerous reports in the PC magazines of problems with their products and support. One incident which was discussed in MicroCornucopia involved a group of dissatisfied customers in Texas actually staging a demonstration in their lobby in order to finally see their director of service. I have and will caution all consumers to stay clear of this company no matter how low their prices or how good their advertising... Mr. Briggs could have easily recovered his money if only he had placed the original purchase with a major credit card. Federal law allows the remedy of debt removal for unsatisfactory merchandise if a credit card is used and the purchase is made from a firm 100 or more miles away from your residence (or place of business). I had to used this once on mail order software that I felt failed to function as advertised and where a refund was refused. I recommend that all mail order purchases be conducted via credit card trans- action in order to give the consumer full legal recourse... (I also use this for all software purchases do to the lack of warentee inherent in their quasi-legal license aggreements)! Joe Applegate - Colorado School of Mines Computing Center {seismo, hplabs}!hao!isis!csm9a!japplega *** UNIX is a philosophy, not an operating system *** *** BUT it is a registered trademark of AT&T, so get off my back ***
jkg@gitpyr.gatech.EDU (Jim Greenlee) (04/25/87)
In article <440@csm9a.UUCP> japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) writes: >Mr. Briggs could have easily recovered his money if only he had placed the >original purchase with a major credit card. Federal law allows the remedy >of debt removal for unsatisfactory merchandise if a credit card is used and >the purchase is made from a firm 100 or more miles away from your residence >(or place of business). I want to point out that there are certain restrictions and guidelines which must be followed before you can do this. This procedure is referred to as a "charge-back" and is mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act, a 1974 amendment to the Truth in Lending Act. It spells out specific steps that must be taken to reverse the charge. Firstly, the firm must be at in your state or within 100 miles of your home or place of business for purchases under $50. For purchases over $50, the distance test does not apply. Secondly, the purchase must have been by MAIL order (technically, telephone orders do NOT count). You must first try to settle the dispute with the merchant. If the matter is not resolved to your satisfaction, then you must notify the card issuer that you are requesting a charge-back. During the time that the matter is in dispute, the card issuer may not charge you interest on the amount, nor report your account as being delinquent. Of course, all correspondence should be as well documented as possible, with copies of any pertinent documents included. It's also a good idea to send everything via registered mail, so you have some proof that the letters were received. The procedure, although simple, must be followed to protect your rights under the act (and also your wallet :-). In reality, most banks don't follow the law to the letter, but in situations like this, it is always best to play it safe. For anyone who is interested, there was an excellent article in the February issue of "Consumer Reports" that covers this subject in great detail. I've changed the "Followups" line to go to misc.consumers for anybody who is interested in pursuing this discussion. I think further postings will be more appropriate there. Jim Greenlee -- The Shadow...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!jkg Jryy, abj lbh'ir tbar naq qbar vg! Whfg unq gb xrrc svqqyvat jvgu vg hagvy lbh oebxr vg, qvqa'g lbh?!
kadie@uiucdcsb.cs.uiuc.edu (04/25/87)
The back of my credit card statement seems to contradict this advice. > Mr. Briggs could have easily recovered his money if only he had placed the > original purchase with a major credit card. Federal law allows the remedy > of debt removal for unsatisfactory merchandise if a credit card is used and > the purchase is made from a firm 100 or more miles away from your residence ************************ > (or place of business). I had to used this once on mail order software that > I felt failed to function as advertised and where a refund was refused. > I recommend that all mail order purchases be conducted via credit card trans- > action in order to give the consumer full legal recourse... (I also use this > for all software purchases do to the lack of warentee inherent in their > quasi-legal license aggreements)! Here's what the back of my Visa statement says: "Special Rule for Credit Card Purchases If you have a problem with the quality of goods or services that you purchesed with a crdit card, and you have tried in good faith to correct the problem with the merchant, you may not have to pay the remaining amount due on the goods or services. You have this protection only when the purchase price was more than $50 and the purchase was made in you home state or within 100 miles of ****************** your mailing address. (If we own or operate the merchant, or if we mailed you the advertisement for the property or services, all purchases or covered regard- less of amount or location of purchase.)" Are there two different rules? One for >100 miles and one for <100? Carl Kadie University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign UUCP: {ihnp4,pur-ee,convex}!uiucdcs!kadie CSNET: kadie@UIUC.CSNET ARPA: kadie@M.CS.UIUC.EDU (kadie@UIUC.ARPA)