whitney@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (glen whitney) (07/21/87)
A while ago, there was a discussion on the net about problems formatting 1.2Mb disks in AT Clones. I remember that a solution was given, but not what it was. At the time, I was using an XT Clone, but now I have an AT Clone. Unfortunately, I am having the same problem. Could someone be so kind as to post a summary of the discussion. I'm not really sure how someone can email me something, so a posting would be easiest. Besides, somebody else might want to hear it again. whitney%husc4@harvard "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
dwb@cpsc53.UUCP (Dave Bigelow) (07/22/87)
> > A while ago, there was a discussion on the net about problems formatting 1.2Mb > disks in AT Clones. I remember that a solution was given, but not what it was. > At the time, I was using an XT Clone, but now I have an AT Clone. Unfortunately, > I am having the same problem. Could someone be so kind as to post a summary of > the discussion. I'm not really sure how someone can email me something, so a > posting would be easiest. Besides, somebody else might want to hear it again. > whitney%husc4@harvard "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!" Hi, I used to work at Mich State University, in the department of Veteranary Med. as one of their micro support. We had several XT's and a few AT's and came accross a few problems. (we had Zenith models). It boiled down to three problems: 1) Using non high-density disks. Specialy made for 1.2M drives is Memorex's 1.2M high density disk. This is a special high density brand made for these types of drives. They must be high density 1.2! They must say it on the box! Verbatums will not work. 2) The setup for the system doesn't recognise it as a 1.2M drive. Go into the setup program and redefine your driver specs. 3) Your formatted your disk, but you then used it in a different drive and wrote to it in that drive. You can only read from 1.2M disks in non 1.2M drives, you cannot write. Extra possibility, your version of DOS does not recognise different drive types, you need a command line control to perfrom a high density format! Look it up in the MS-DOS handbook. I hope this helps! :-) Dave the Rave
phco@ecsvax.UUCP (John Miller) (07/23/87)
>Hi, I used to work at Mich State University, in the department of Veteranary >Med. as one of their micro support. . . . I'm afraid the following information is all too typical of micro support centers. Read on . . . > 1) Using non high-density disks. Specialy made for 1.2M drives is > Memorex's 1.2M high density disk. This is a special high density brand > made for these types of drives. They must be high density 1.2! > They must say it on the box! Verbatums will not work. A number of manufacturers produce 1.2M (96TPI) diskettes, including Memorex, 3M, and (I think) Verbatim. The main point here, though, is that a diskette must be of the 96TPI double side, high density variety in order to be formatted for 1.2M. However, 360K diskettes can be formatted in the high density drives and can be written and read by both high and low density drives. The difficulties occur when both high and low density drives use the same diskette. The high density drives write a narrower track on the diskette, so if a high density drive writes over a track written by a low density drive, it does not completely obliterate the original data. If the drives are well aligned, this may cause no problems, but the low density drives may not be able to read the dual-written disk. > 2) The setup for the system doesn't recognise it as a 1.2M drive. > Go into the setup program and redefine your driver specs. This is a possibility but not very likely. > 3) Your formatted your disk, but you then used it in a different drive > and wrote to it in that drive. You can only read from 1.2M disks > in non 1.2M drives, you cannot write. Whoa! A 360K drive cannot read a 1.2M disk, nor can it write in that format. However, the 96TPI disks can be formatted as 360K disks on a low or high density drive. Their greater cost, however, makes that uneconomical. > Extra possibility, your version of DOS does not recognise different drive > types, you need a command line control to perfrom a high density format! If you're using an AT-type machine, you must be using DOS 3.x, and no special options are needed on the command line to format 1.2M disks. You do need special options to format 360K disks or the 3 1/2" format. > Look it up in the MS-DOS handbook. By all means! A few micro support center employees (and ex-employees) could benefit from that, too. >I hope this helps! :-) Like giving a drowning man a glass of water . . . Before my mailbox ignites, let me say that many micro support center personnel are quite competent and eager to help and that they have a myriad of problems for which they are expected to provide miraculous solutions. The many products and rapid changes in the industry make it nearly impossible for anyone to keep pace with such things. However, it is wiser to say "I don't know, but I'll try to find out" than to offer eager but erroneous information to puzzled users. 'Nuff said. -- John Miller (ecsvax!phco) Dept. of Pharmacology, Univ. of N.C.-Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 27514 (919) 966-4343
timothym@tekigm2.TEK.COM (Timothy D Margeson) (07/24/87)
In article <3587@ecsvax.UUCP> phco@ecsvax.UUCP (John Miller) writes: >Whoa! A 360K drive cannot read a 1.2M disk, nor can it write in that format. >However, the 96TPI disks can be formatted as 360K disks on a low or high >density drive. Their greater cost, however, makes that uneconomical. > John Miller (ecsvax!phco) I have tried to format a 600ost disk (96tpi, 1.2M) in a 360k drive, I have never actually been successful. The problem of formatting 1.2M diskettes in 360k drives is due to the 600ost medium. It takes too much energy to saturate the magnetic particles, there- fore it is almost impossible to get a bit written to a 1.2M floppy in a 360k disk drive. Try it sometime (:-) -- Tim Margeson (206)253-5240 PO Box 3500 d/s C1-937 @@ 'Who said that?' Vancouver, WA. 98668 {amd..hplabs}cae780!tektronix!tekigm2!timothym (this changes daily)
phco@ecsvax.UUCP (John Miller) (07/28/87)
In article <1981@tekigm2.TEK.COM> timothym@tekigm2.UUCP (Timothy D Margeson) writes: >. . . It takes too much energy to saturate the magnetic particles, there- >fore it is almost impossible to get a bit written to a 1.2M floppy in a 360k >disk drive. > >Try it sometime (:-) Well, I just formatted a DS, HD, 96TPI 3M diskette in a Zenith 159 360K drive, copied some files to it, and ran a chkdsk. It worked, more or less, but chkdsk reported 10240 bytes in bad sectors. I would conclude from this that the 96TPI diskettes can be used in 360K format but that such use is not totally reliable. -- John Miller (ecsvax!phco) Dept. of Pharmacology, Univ. of N.C.-Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 27514 (919) 966-4343
whitney@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (glen whitney) (07/30/87)
Let me clarify my original posting. My problem is as follows: When I boot up MS-DOS 3.2, and try to format a high-capacity disk in a high- capacity drive (a:) with 'format a:', DOS gets to the second head on cylinder 0, then prints 'Parameters invalid;. It then tries again, doesn't get past the first head first cylinder, and aborts with 'Track 0 bad or Invalid Media' Having tried many different high-capacity disks, I concluded that Track 0 was not bad on all of them, and obviously the media wasn't invalid. After the first try, DOS never gets past the first head first cylinder, and you never get 'Parameters invalid'. Then I tried rebooting and using PC-DOS 3.1. Surprise, surprise, PC-DOS 3.1 formats with no problem. So my question is, does anyone have an answer? About a month or more ago, there a discussion in the net on the exact same topic. Someone came up with a solution and a reason, but since I had an IBM XT-compatible then (I have an IBM AT-comatible now) I didn't pay attention to it. I remember that the person said some- thing about the amount of free memory causing a problem, but this doesn't make sense to me. So if anyone has a copy of that old discussion, or can remember it, that would be helpful. And by the way, I have an AT-compatible computer running at 10 Mhz, with a 40 Meg hard disk partioned into 2 20's, and an EGA system, and 1 1.2 Megabyte floppy and one 360 K floppy. Any help would be really appreciated. Wayne Whitney -- whitney@husc4.harvard.edu (ARPANET) whitney@husc4.UUCP (UUCP) ..!harvard!husc4!whitney (also UUCP) 72770,2020 (CIS) "You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
toma@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) (07/30/87)
In article <2598@husc6.UUCP> whitney@husc4.UUCP (glen whitney) writes: > > Let me clarify my original posting. My problem is as follows: >When I boot up MS-DOS 3.2, and try to format a high-capacity disk in a high- >capacity drive (a:) with 'format a:', DOS gets to the second head on cylinder >0, then prints 'Parameters invalid;. ... >Then I tried rebooting and using PC-DOS 3.1. >Surprise, surprise, PC-DOS 3.1 formats with no problem. There is a bug in MS-DOS 3.2 that is apparently fixed in version 3.21. We have had the same probem on a number of our machines we built up with MS-DOS 3.2. Tom Almy Tektronix, Inc. (DOS 3.1 Forever!)
whitney@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (glen whitney) (07/31/87)
In article <2501@tekgvs.TEK.COM> toma@tekgvs.UUCP (Tom Almy) writes: >In article <2598@husc6.UUCP> whitney@husc4.UUCP (glen whitney) writes: >> >> Let me clarify my original posting. My problem is as follows: >>When I boot up MS-DOS 3.2, and try to format a high-capacity disk in a high- >>capacity drive (a:) with 'format a:', DOS gets to the second head on cylinder >>0, then prints 'Parameters invalid;. ... >>Then I tried rebooting and using PC-DOS 3.1. >>Surprise, surprise, PC-DOS 3.1 formats with no problem. > >There is a bug in MS-DOS 3.2 that is apparently fixed in version 3.21. If this is the case, is there a patch to MS-DOS 3.2 to fix this? I remember that about a month or more ago, someone gave a reason for the problem, and a way around it. The reason he gave had something to do with the amount of free memory. If anyone could reproduce this article, or remember the person name or solution, I would greatly appreciate it. Wayne Whitney -- whitney@husc4.harvard.edu (ARPANET) whitney@husc4.UUCP (UUCP) ..!harvard!husc4!whitney (also UUCP) 72770,2020 (CIS) "You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
timothym@tekigm2.UUCP (08/01/87)
Hi,
I have heard of a similar problem under DOS 3.3, but am told that if you do
ant disk I/O before formats the problems goes away. But this bug shouldn't
be in DOS 3.2.
--
Tim Margeson (206)253-5240
PO Box 3500 d/s C1-937 @@ 'Who said that?'
Vancouver, WA. 98668
{amd..hplabs}cae780!tektronix!tekigm2!timothym (this changes daily)whitney@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (glen whitney) (08/01/87)
In article <455@bucket.UUCP> leonard@bucket.UUCP (Leonard Erickson) writes: >is due to FORMAT not checking to see if any of the many buffers it apparently >needs span a 64k boundary. Supposedly this causes DMA problems. > Alll I know is that we have the same problem on some machines running >DOS 3.1. It can be solved by changing the number of buffers in CONFIG.SYS Do you happen to know if this problem is fixed in DOS 3.3? -- whitney@husc4.harvard.edu (ARPANET) whitney@husc4.UUCP (UUCP) ..!harvard!husc4!whitney (also UUCP) 72770,2020 (CIS) "You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
michael@ddsw1.UUCP (Michael Duebner) (08/02/87)
In article <2009@tekigm2.TEK.COM>, timothym@tekigm2.TEK.COM (Timothy D Margeson) writes: > Hi, > > I have heard of a similar problem under DOS 3.3, but am told that if you do > ant disk I/O before formats the problems goes away. But this bug shouldn't > be in DOS 3.2. We have been operating our oldest micro, a PC manufactured in '81, under PC-DOS 3.3 and have not experienced any of the strange formatting and non-booting problems reported. We have also changed the operating system on a compatible to 3.3 and being that it is an AT clone it seems to format 1.2 MB disk just fine. The config.sys settings are: Buffers=30, Files=20, device=ansi.sys -- Michael Duebner UUCP : ...ihnp4!ddsw1!michael (Help is only a phone call away for members of AERA)
leonard@bucket.UUCP (Leonard Erickson) (08/04/87)
I don't know if DOS 3.3 has solved the problem. We don't have any copies of it. In fact, while we have a few copies of 3.21 we are staying with 3.1. (actually, we have a few users that are still using 2.1!! [and are stamping them out as fast as we find them!]) -- Leonard Erickson ...!tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard CIS: [70465,203] "I used to be a hacker. Now I'm a 'microcomputer specialist'. You know... I'd rather be a hacker."