[comp.sys.ibm.pc] Reading Hard disk with different DOS versions

jpw@cblpf.ATT.COM (Mike Vehonsky) (08/20/87)

	If a hard disk has been formatted with DOS version "X",
	what determines whether or not you will be able to read
	it when you boot DOS version "Y" from floppy.

	We just loaded 3.2 on our system (PC6300, 10 Meg).  If
	you boot version 2.11 or 3.1 from floppy, and try to
	access the C: drive, you get an "Invalid drive specification".
	I think that it may have to do with cluster size, but the strange
	thing is that another machine (also running 3.2) CAN be
	booted with a different version and read the hard drive just
	fine.  Any insight would be appreciated.



						Mike Vehonsky
						AT&T Network Systems
						ihnp4!cblpf!jpw

gmv@cblpf.ATT.COM (G. Michael Vrbanac) (08/20/87)

> 	If a hard disk has been formatted with DOS version "X",
> 	what determines whether or not you will be able to read
> 	it when you boot DOS version "Y" from floppy.
> 
> 	We just loaded 3.2 on our system (PC6300, 10 Meg).  If
> 	you boot version 2.11 or 3.1 from floppy, and try to
> 	access the C: drive, you get an "Invalid drive specification".
> 	I think that it may have to do with cluster size, but the strange
> 	thing is that another machine (also running 3.2) CAN be
> 	booted with a different version and read the hard drive just
> 	fine.  Any insight would be appreciated.
> 
> 						Mike Vehonsky
> 						ihnp4!cblpf!jpw

To draw an analogy to the UNIX world, the DOS format really doesn't "format"
but rather makes a file system. (a PC "low-level" format is equivalent to
a UNIX "format").  The DOS "file-system" changed with version 3, and is
downward compatible with DOS 2.xx but not upward compatible with DOS 2.xx.

Thus a machine booted with 3.2 can read 2.xx disks, but a 2.xx DOS can't
read 3.2 formatted disks.

Note this is the 12-bit versus 16-bit FAT (file-allocation-table) change.

 +---------------------------------------------------------+
 | Mike Vrbanac   AT&T Bell Laboratories   Columbus, Ahiya |
 | Unix: {cbosgd|ihnp4}!cblpf!gmv     CompuServ: 76054,113 |
 +---------------------------------------------------------+

psfales@ihlpe.ATT.COM (Pete Fales) (08/21/87)

 In article <680@cblpf.ATT.COM>, jpw@cblpf.ATT.COM (Mike Vehonsky) writes:
 > 
 >	If a hard disk has been formatted with DOS version "X",
 >	what determines whether or not you will be able to read
 >	it when you boot DOS version "Y" from floppy.
 >
 >	We just loaded 3.2 on our system (PC6300, 10 Meg).  If
 >	you boot version 2.11 or 3.1 from floppy, and try to
 >	access the C: drive, you get an "Invalid drive specification".
 >	I think that it may have to do with cluster size, but the strange
 >	thing is that another machine (also running 3.2) CAN be
 >	booted with a different version and read the hard drive just
 >	fine.  Any insight would be appreciated.

I am not positive, but I'll take some guesses:

Guess #1:
It is a well known fact
that Microsoft introduced the 16 bit FAT (i.e. smaller hard disk cluster
size) in version 3.1 (or 3.0??), but AT&T did not introduce it until 3.2.  
This means that once the disk has been formatted with anyone's 3.2, it can 
be read by anyone's 3.2 but only by the Microsoft version of 3.1.

Guess #2 (more likely as I think about it):
If the disk on your second system was formatted with pre-3.2 and then
3.2 installed without reformatting, it will retain the larger cluster
size.  Thus, it can be read by any version of DOS.

-- 
Peter Fales		UUCP:	...ihnp4!ihlpe!psfales
			work:	(312) 979-7784
				AT&T Information Systems, IW 1Z-243
				1100 E. Warrenville Rd., IL 60566

bw@hpcvlo.HP.COM (Bill Wilhelmi) (08/21/87)

Don't boot 2.11 and try to write to your hard disk formatted with 3.x.  
DOS 2.x formats hard discs using a 12-bit File allocation table.  
DOS 3.x formats hard discs using 16-bit File Allocation Table entries.
If you write to a hard disc formatted with 16-bit FAT entries using an
operating system that thinks its dealing with 12-bit FAT entries, you
can kiss the data on your hard disc goodbye.

Bill Wilhelmi
Hewlett-Packard
Corvallis, Oregon

tla@kaiser.UUCP (T Anderson) (08/22/87)

>> 	If a hard disk has been formatted with DOS version "X",
>> 	what determines whether or not you will be able to read
>> 	it when you boot DOS version "Y" from floppy.
>> 
>> 	We just loaded 3.2 on our system (PC6300, 10 Meg).  If
>> 	you boot version 2.11 or 3.1 from floppy, and try to
>> 	access the C: drive, you get an "Invalid drive specification".
>> 	I think that it may have to do with cluster size, but the strange
>> 	thing is that another machine (also running 3.2) CAN be
>> 	booted with a different version and read the hard drive just
>> 	fine.  Any insight would be appreciated.
>> 
>> 						Mike Vehonsky
>> 						ihnp4!cblpf!jpw

> To draw an analogy to the UNIX world, the DOS format really doesn't
> "format" but rather makes a file system. (a PC "low-level" format is
> equivalent to a UNIX "format").  The DOS "file-system" changed with
> version 3, and is downward compatible with DOS 2.xx but not upward
> compatible with DOS 2.xx.  Thus a machine booted with 3.2 can read
> 2.xx disks, but a 2.xx DOS can't read 3.2 formatted disks.  

> Note this is the 12-bit versus 16-bit FAT (file-allocation-table) change.

Actually as the original author observed it is not as bad as the
above.  The only problem is DOS x with x<3.0 (or in AT&Ts case
x<3.2)  ONLY 12 bit FAT was supported so if using a later DOS the
disk was formatted with 16 bit FATs then they can no longer be read
by the earlier DOSs.  But even the newer DOSs (by default) only uses 
the 16-bit FAT for disks larger than 10M.  So even with the newer
DOS 10M and smaller disks use 12 bit FATs and CAN be read by earlier
DOSs.  Disks larger than 10 M formated by earlier DOS use 12-bit
FATs and it is even possible with the more recent DOSs to force the
use of the 12-bit FATs, which can then be read by all.  Of course
the disadvantage (and one of the reasons for introducing the 16-bit
FAT) was that on a 20M disk with 12-bit FATs the cluster size is 8k.
 The 16-bit FAT reduces that to 2k.

			     --	Terry L Anderson
				AT&T Bell Laboratories -- Liberty Corners
				UUCP:     ...!ihnp4!kaiser!tla
				TeleMail: Terry.Anderson
				(201) 580-4428

dave@westmark.UUCP (Dave Levenson) (08/23/87)

In article <680@cblpf.ATT.COM>, jpw@cblpf.ATT.COM (Mike Vehonsky) writes:
> 	We just loaded 3.2 on our system (PC6300, 10 Meg).  If
> 	you boot version 2.11 or 3.1 from floppy, and try to
> 	access the C: drive, you get an "Invalid drive specification".

> 	...another machine (also running 3.2) CAN be
> 	booted with a different version and read the hard drive just
> 	fine.

You just loaded MS-DOS version 3.2 on your system.  You probably
re-formatted your hard disk in the process.  This is useful, because
it allows you to use the smaller cluster size, but it is optional. 

If you had an earlier version of MS-DOS, the 3.2 installation
process allows you to skip the re-formatting step and just replace
the system files.  This is probably what was done with "another
machine" whose hard disk is still accessible under older DOS
versions.
-- 
Dave Levenson
Westmark, Inc.
Warren, NJ USA
{rutgers | clyde | mtune | ihnp4}!westmark!dave