axelson@dasys1.UUCP (Kevin Axelson) (07/21/87)
Can disk data be damaged by magnetic fields encountered during commercial air
travel (e.g. from screening devices or elsewhere)?
If so, what is the best tactic for reducing the risk? Does anyone take extra-
ordinary measures with their hard-disk equipped laptops?
Thanks for your advice.
--
Kevin Axelson {sun!hoptoad,cmc12!phri}!dasys1!axelson
BEC Public Access Unix, NYC Can anyone see if it's raining outside? todd@uhccux.UUCP (The Perplexed Wiz) (07/23/87)
In article <862@dasys1.UUCP> axelson@dasys1.UUCP (Kevin Axelson) writes: >Can disk data be damaged by magnetic fields encountered during commercial air >travel (e.g. from screening devices or elsewhere)? I've heard/read conflicting opinions on this one. >If so, what is the best tactic for reducing the risk? Does anyone take extra- >ordinary measures with their hard-disk equipped laptops? I don't have a hard disk in my laptop (unfortunately). I adopted a very conservative approach some years ago. I simply ask the security people to hand check my computer and disks. I have never had any of them refuse this request. I recall only one person reporting a problem occuring during a hand check of a lap portable. One of the security folks took a look at the large and heavy AC adaptor for a while and called a more senior staff member to clear it through. This was a while back though. I have not heard of similar stories since then...todd -- Todd Ogasawara, U. of Hawaii Center for Teaching Excellence UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,ucbvax,dcdwest}!sdcsvax!nosc!uhccux!todd ARPA: uhccux!todd@nosc.MIL INTERNET: todd@uhccux.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU
dg@wrs.UUCP (David Goodenough) (07/25/87)
In article <862@dasys1.UUCP> axelson@dasys1.UUCP (Kevin Axelson) writes: >Can disk data be damaged by magnetic fields encountered during commercial air >travel (e.g. from screening devices or elsewhere)? > >If so, what is the best tactic for reducing the risk? Does anyone take extra- >ordinary measures with their hard-disk equipped laptops? From first hand experience I will say that I once was carting a 2400 foot reel of mag tape (ALMOST FULL) across the country, and I let airport security zap it with their X-ray machine. In my innocence I knew that X-rays alone were not too harmful, but I forgot the medium sized magnetic fields produced by most x-ray machines. I lost about two years worth of source in one go :-(. Since then I've never let airport security near any magnetically encoded media - floppys / hard disk systems / mag tape audio tapes / video tapes or anything. What I do is to get them to examine whatever it is by hand - I'm not letting them x-ray it, and I'm not about to walk through the magnetic gun detctor with it, so that only leaves the visual inspection option. After four / five years of this I've never had an objection (quite a lot of odd looks - but no objections) -- dg@wrs.UUCP - David Goodenough +---+ | +-+-+ +-+-+ | +---+
alang@masscomp.UUCP (Alan Groupe) (07/25/87)
Do the same thing I do with my cameras -- ask them to hand inspect. If it is not busy I don't find that they mind. If it is crowded at the time, step back and wait until the crowd lets up. If you treat them courteously they are bound the treat you likewise.
guest@vu-vlsi.UUCP (visitors) (07/25/87)
In article <862@dasys1.UUCP> axelson@dasys1.UUCP (Kevin Axelson) writes: >Can disk data be damaged by magnetic fields encountered during commercial air >travel (e.g. from screening devices or elsewhere)? > >If so, what is the best tactic for reducing the risk? Does anyone take extra- >ordinary measures with their hard-disk equipped laptops? > From what I understand about this topic, it is not so much the x-ray screening devices and the like that can damage the data on the disk as the conveyor-belt machine that is used to send all of the stuff through the x-ray machine. The conveyor-belt has quite a large motor, and if your disks travel over the motor, the data stored on them may be altered. I am not certain on the effects of this equipment on electronic devices such as portable computeres. Anyhow, I have found that the best way to avoid the damage (at least to the data on the disks) is to have them inspected by a security guard and not placed near the scanning machines. ============================================================================== | Mark Schaffer | BITNET: 164485913@vuvaxcom | | Villanova University | UUCP: ...{ihnp4!psuvax1,burdvax,cbmvax,pyrnj,bpa} | | (Go Wildcats!) | !vu-vlsi!excalibur!164485913 | ============================================================================== please respond/reply to the above addresses and not to guest@vu-vlsi.UUCP
merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (07/27/87)
In article <862@dasys1.UUCP> axelson@dasys1.UUCP (Kevin Axelson) writes: >Can disk data be damaged by magnetic fields encountered during commercial air >travel (e.g. from screening devices or elsewhere)? I have a hard disk in my transportable (ie, Macintosh). I always have the people at the airlines hand-check it. Usually, this requires me to plug it in and turn it on, to prove that it is really a computer and not just a funky case for a.357 magnum. The weirdest case I know of was someone with an external hard disk who carried that with him. When they he got to the gate, he was asked to open the hard disk. Fortunately, he had a screwdriver so he did and they let him through. (Personally, I find this surprising, as if you ever look inside those things, what you see is a metal box with lots of wires and cables coming off of it.) X-Rays do not harm magnetic disks, from what I understand. However, the magnetic fields created by the motors that run the conveyor belts can harm disks. Some people get away with it. But then, some people are lucky. While I might risk a 360K floppy, I'm certainly not risking a 20 megabyte hard disk. -- "Don't be fooled by the radio Peter Merchant (merchant@dartvax.UUCP) the TV or the magazine."
jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) (07/30/87)
In article <695@uhccux.UUCP>, todd@uhccux.UUCP (The Perplexed Wiz) writes: > In article <862@dasys1.UUCP> axelson@dasys1.UUCP (Kevin Axelson) writes: > >Can disk data be damaged by magnetic fields encountered during commercial air > >travel (e.g. from screening devices or elsewhere)? > > I've heard/read conflicting opinions on this one. So have I, but the net result is that, for me, it's simply too much of a pain to recover from that I didn't take the risk. > >If so, what is the best tactic for reducing the risk? Does anyone take extra- > >ordinary measures with their hard-disk equipped laptops? > > I don't have a hard disk in my laptop (unfortunately). I adopted a > very conservative approach some years ago. I simply ask the security > people to hand check my computer and disks. I have never had any of > them refuse this request. Supposedly, they're not allowed to. I took the same approach with my Compaq Plus, which, while not a laptop, did take some airplane flights with me. Most of the time, I was simply asked to drop the keyboard off the front of the machine, thereby showing the screen/drives to the person. I was asked to power the machine up at Dulles (they had an outlet right next to the table at the security station, and I set it up there; all they wanted was to see DOS start up), and was asked to remove the top cover at Raleigh/Durham (not a difficult operation on a Compaq). -- >splut!<...Jay Maynard, K5ZC | uucp: ...!seismo!soma!uhnix1!sugar!splut!jay "Don't ask ME about Unix... | GEnie: JAYMAYNARD (...e-i-e-i-o!) I speak SNA!" | CI$: 71036,1603 FidoNet: SysOp @106/64 The opinions herein are shared by neither of my cats, much less anyone else.
edw@zehntel.UUCP (Ed Wright) (07/31/87)
I am real partial to wrapping stuff in lead foil if its going
into the cargo hold.
For carry on a request for hand search generally works.
although I did have one "vaseline for brains" at DC national
try to take everything apart, and then started on the camera stuff.
WARNING: when you get tired of them looking in at around and over,
and when one of them (the inspectors) holds up something
obvious (telephoto lens, printer cable, whatever) and asks
"duhhhh whats this" under no circumstances get cute and say "atom bomb".
Voice of experience.
Just answer the dumb question and soon you and your computer
will be happily on your way.
I think I've got the hang of it now .... :w :q :wq :wq! ^d X
exit X Q :quitbye CtrlAltDel ~~q :~q logout save/quit
:!QUIT ^[ zz ZZ ZZZZ ^H ^@ ^L ^[c ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help
helpquit ^D ^d ^C ^c helpexit ?Quit ?q ?x ZZ bye Ed Wrightdemillo@europa.UUCP (robert demillo) (08/12/87)
In article <19@splut.UUCP> jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes: >In article <695@uhccux.UUCP>, todd@uhccux.UUCP (The Perplexed Wiz) writes: >> >> I don't have a hard disk in my laptop (unfortunately). I adopted a >> very conservative approach some years ago. I simply ask the security >> people to hand check my computer and disks. I have never had any of >> them refuse this request. > >Supposedly, they're not allowed to. I took the same approach with my Compaq >Plus, which, while not a laptop, did take some airplane flights with me. > ...followed by stories of airline people asking Jay to > to open up Compaqs, power them up, etc. This makes *zero* sense to me. I travel (and have traveled) a lot. I take computers and computer related equipment with me. I have called airports involved, and *every one of them* has told me their official policy is for the traveler to tell airline people to hand check the computer and disks. (And I am talking: O'Hare, Logan, Atlanta, etc.) *Never* in four years of travelling with computers have I *ever* had anyone insist that they take the thing apart, power it up, have it sniffed by dogs, etc. And I have never heard the bit about "they aren't supposed to hand check." Sorry Jay, I don't mean to cast doubt on your claim, but I have never even heard of that before. - Rob DeMillo Brown University - Planetary Science Group UUCP: ...{seismo!harpo}!ihnp4!brunix!europa!demillo BITNET: GE702025@BROWNVM SPAN: BRNPSG::DEMILLO CompuServe: 73537,2737 The Real World: 401-863-3769 ------ "...I am not so sure what you want me for! Either your machine is a fool, or me..." -- "WarGames", CSN
mlinar@poisson.usc.edu (Mitch Mlinar) (08/16/87)
In article <114@europa.UUCP> demillo@europa.UUCP (robert demillo) writes: > >This makes *zero* sense to me. I travel (and have traveled) a lot. I take >computers and computer related equipment with me. I have called airports >involved, and *every one of them* has told me their official policy is >for the traveler to tell airline people to hand check the computer and >disks. (And I am talking: O'Hare, Logan, Atlanta, etc.) *Never* in four >years of travelling with computers have I *ever* had anyone insist that they >take the thing apart, power it up, have it sniffed by dogs, etc. And I have >never heard the bit about "they aren't supposed to hand check." I agree completely about hand check of computers; I have NEVER had a problem with them denying me a hand check. However, the power-up issue you claim is wrong based on my frequent exposure. When I started carrying a laptop portable with me on trips starting in March of this year, I have had FEW exceptions of them NOT checking if the computer is REALLY a computer (turn it on and see a display). I always handcheck the laptop, and rarely have to say a word. But everytime I handed it to them, they would hand it back and ask me to "turn it on". This includes: O'Hare, LAX, Newark, DFW, SFO, and Dayton (even a dink airport does it!). The security person at LAX told me it is a "policy" being instituted nation-wide, but she (who also owns a computer) - although understanding WHY they do such a thing - was not sure how useful it was. As a final note, during my last two trips (a few weeks and 1+ month ago), EVERY airport verified my laptop was not a prop holding weapons. This included an airport where you board the aircraft by walking around the baggage cart and oil/fuel stains and up the rear stairwell. -Mitch
leonard@bucket.UUCP (Leonard Erickson) (08/20/87)
I remember a discussion on this subject on the Model 100 SIG on Compuserve a year or so back. At that time it _was not possible_ to take a laptop through security at German airports. Their regulations required that they _open_ the things! Thus, no laptops as carry-on. European Airport Security is usually _much_ tighter than ours. For good reason. -- Leonard Erickson ...!tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard CIS: [70465,203] "I used to be a hacker. Now I'm a 'microcomputer specialist'. You know... I'd rather be a hacker."
jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) (08/20/87)
In article <114@europa.UUCP>, demillo@europa.UUCP (robert demillo) writes: ) In article <19@splut.UUCP> jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes: ) >Supposedly, they're not allowed to. I took the same approach with my Compaq ) >Plus, which, while not a laptop, did take some airplane flights with me. ) > ...followed by stories of airline people asking Jay to ) > to open up Compaqs, power them up, etc. ) ) This makes *zero* sense to me. I travel (and have traveled) a lot. I take ) computers and computer related equipment with me. I have called airports ) involved, and *every one of them* has told me their official policy is ) for the traveler to tell airline people to hand check the computer and ) disks. (And I am talking: O'Hare, Logan, Atlanta, etc.) *Never* in four ) years of travelling with computers have I *ever* had anyone insist that they ) take the thing apart, power it up, have it sniffed by dogs, etc. And I have ) never heard the bit about "they aren't supposed to hand check." Sorry if I wasn't clear...What I meant was, "Supposedly, they're not allowed to refuse to hand check...". I never had one refuse such a request either. I would add that the last time I took my Plus along was a year ago, from Houston to LAX, and didn't have a single problem. The power-up request was at Dulles, about two years ago. Maybe security types have gotten enlightened since then... -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC...>splut!< | uucp: ...!seismo!soma!uhnix1!sugar!splut!jay "Don't ask ME about Unix... | GEnie: JAYMAYNARD (...e-i-e-i-o!) I speak SNA!" | CI$: 71036,1603 FidoNet: SysOp @106/64 The opinions herein are shared by neither of my cats, much less anyone else.
paul@cgh.UUCP (Paul Homchick) (08/22/87)
/* From <114@europa.UUCP> in comp.sys.ibm.pc by demillo@europa.UUCP (robert demillo) */ >In article <19@splut.UUCP> jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes: > ... (And I am talking: O'Hare, Logan, Atlanta, etc.) *Never* in four >years of travelling with computers have I *ever* had anyone insist that they >take the thing apart, power it up, have it sniffed by dogs, etc. And I have >never heard the bit about "they aren't supposed to hand check." It depends on the airport. Most airports will let computers through with little problem. However, the last few times I have been to St. Louis they have insisted that I take the thing apart and power it up so they can see it run. I was always tempted to tell them that the battery was run down just to see what they would do. I have also had this request in Pittsburg. I finally found that this was so annoying that I took to letting them x-ray the computer (Toshiba T1100) and the disks at all of the airports. I have been doing so for about a year now and that makes over 100 trips through the x-ray machines. Nothing has gone wrong yet. My advice is to give them both the machine and the disks and let them x-ray away. To be logical about it, X-rays aren't going to hurt anything, and I haven't seen any of these big, dirty, power-supplies and motors that people are warning about. There really is too much fear of this, that, and everything else in modern life. The airport x-rays haven't hurt my data or processors in the past year, and I doubt very much if they are going to hurt yours. -- Paul Homchick {seismo | allegra | ihnp4 | rutgers} !cbmvax!cgh!paul Chimitt Gilman Homchick, Inc.; One Radnor Station, Suite 300; Radnor, PA 19087
todd@uhccux.UUCP (The Perplexed Wiz) (08/23/87)
In article <70@splut.UUCP> jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes: >I would add that the last time I took my Plus along was a year ago, from >Houston to LAX, and didn't have a single problem. The power-up request was >at Dulles, about two years ago. Maybe security types have gotten enlightened >since then... Since I was one of the people who mentioned "hand checking," I thought I'd follow up on this. I just made a quick turnaround flight and carried my NEC MultiSpeed with me. I asked for a "hand check." The security folks performed a quick hand check and asked me to turn on my computer to verify that it was indeed a functional computer. ...todd -- Todd Ogasawara, U. of Hawaii Center for Teaching Excellence UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,ucbvax,dcdwest}!sdcsvax!nosc!uhccux!todd ARPA: uhccux!todd@nosc.MIL INTERNET: todd@uhccux.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU
jons@islenet.UUCP (Jonathan Spangler) (08/28/87)
In article <756@uhccux.UUCP> todd@uhccux.UUCP (The Perplexed Wiz) writes: >Since I was one of the people who mentioned "hand checking," I thought >I'd follow up on this. > >I just made a quick turnaround flight and carried my NEC MultiSpeed >with me. I asked for a "hand check." The security folks performed >a quick hand check and asked me to turn on my computer to verify that >it was indeed a functional computer. > >...todd I would like to sort of add on to this by saying that I don't travel that much, but the ONE time this year I did travel off of the island, I took my Tandy M102 with me and went through LAX, ORD, IND, SLC, HNL and actually went through LAX four times and didn't have a problem *until* the last time I went through LAX. I was about to put the machine through the X-ray, when a rather large black woman says, "Ok sucka', you wanna bring dat machine ovah hea and let's look at it." Not one to argue, I had them hand-check it AGAINST what I wanted to do. I must say I felt insulted that I was asked to open the machine and turn it on. It wasn't a big deal, but it was just surprizing that I wasn't given a choice in the matter. Maybe I should have sold her the machine while I was at it... Aloha,