terryt@auvax.UUCP (Terry Tanski) (09/08/87)
I have read an article about the new 1000 TX in 80 Micro and it sounds really good. I would like to find out tips, hints, information about the TX from anyone or better yet from someone who has purchased on of these units. Really I was wondering if it is worth it to upgrade from a 1000A and take advantage of the increased speed and storage of the 3 1/2" drives. To make 5 1/4" compatibility I would take a drive out of the 1000A and use it to transfer files to the new format. Is this possible? I also would like to know if the 9 pin serial port is compatible with a PC MOUSE pointing device. The bottom line is HOW GOOD IS IT AND ARE THERE ANY QUIRKS THAT CAUSE PROBLEMS?
japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) (09/11/87)
> I have read an article about the new 1000 TX in 80 Micro and it sounds > The bottom line is HOW GOOD IS IT AND ARE THERE ANY QUIRKS THAT CAUSE > PROBLEMS? You can bet if it's a Tandy it is the most uncompatible machine imaginable! I looked at one the other day... it still uses 10" slots with proprietary brackets that require a hacksaw and pliers to use IBM boards... it still uses a proprietary pin out on the drive cable requiring you to purchase a Tandy drive or hack the cable... it still requires a Tandy Printer cable. Like all the other Tandy 1000's including the A series they ripped me off with, the TX is designed to be totally Tandy compatible (not IBM) and to force you to buy their overpriced and usually out of date peripherals! "Why Tandy, when there are so many better values" Joe Applegate - Colorado School of Mines Computing Center {seismo, hplabs}!hao!isis!csm9a!japplega or SYSOP @ M.O.M. AI BBS - (303) 273-3989 - 300/1200/2400 8-N-1 24 hrs. *** UNIX is a philosophy, not an operating system *** *** BUT it is a registered trademark of AT&T, so get off my back ***
jvc@mirror.UUCP (09/14/87)
Joe Applegate ( Colorado School of Mines Computing Center {seismo, hplabs}!hao!isis!csm9a!japplega) writes: >You can bet if it's a Tandy it is the most uncompatible machine imaginable! W R O N G ! This is a generalization that does not hold true. The Tandy 1000 (which is subject that Joe was responding to) is more like the PC-Jr that IBM came up with. So, if we were to generalize about the IBM products we would have to say "You can bet if it's a IBM it is the most uncompatible machine imaginable!" [I thought people reading/posting to this newsgroup were smart enough to know you can't make such generalizations. I guess I was mistaken] Joe was responding to a question about a TANDY 1000__ and he is probably right about that particular model. The original Tandy 1000's were not 100% IBM compat. and never claimed they were. The newer models of the 1000's claim they are 100% compat. (they also have bigger cases to support larger boards). I have never owned a 1000 so I can tell you much about there compatibility (other than what I heard from owners but since I haven't verified the info myself I not going to post anything on the subject). HOWEVER, I have owned a 1200HD, a 3000, and a 4000 (a 16MHZ 386 machine and which I currently own). Tandy claims that these machine are 100% compatible with IBM and so far nobody has shown otherwise. I have been happy with each one of these machines and have NEVER had to have them serviced. I've used many different third party boards which are known to work on IBM products and have had no problems. I must say, however, that I have had trouble with a CGA card I bought from Tandy (the first and only Tandy board I purchased) a few years ago. The CGA card didn't work with the original version of the game KINGS QUEST (I didn't bother to look into getting it fixed since this is the only program that didn't work and I don't play KINGS QUEST). Be aware that Tandy does have more than one model of each series (e.g., 3000HL, 3000HD, etc) and that not all of the models will be 100% compatible. Tandy usually offers a cheaper variation of the 100% compatible and this variation is not always 100% compatible but Tandy will inform you of this (sometimes it's in the fine print though). [a side note: Radio Shacks prices for Tandy computers is rather high (though much cheaper than IBM sells their stuff for) and it would be best (price wise) to buy the equipment from a mail order house like Computer Plus. Computer Plus IS a Radio Shack authorized computer service center and the only computers they sell are Tandy but they sell monitors, printers, cards, modems, etc from all the popular manufacturers. Their showroom is in Littleton MA. You can take your computer back to any Radio Shack Computer Center for service if you ever need it] If you look around in some of the back issues of the popular computer mags you'll find that Tandy's 100% compatibles have received very high praise. Sorry but I don't have a list of the issues and I don't really have the time to hunt for them now. Disclaimer: I have no connections with Tandy, Radio Shack, or Computer Plus other than as a happy customer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Champeaux jvc@mirror.TMC.COM {mit-eddie, ihnp4, wjh12, cca, cbosgd, seismo}!mirror!jvc Mirror Systems, 2067 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA 02140 Telephone: (617) 661-0777
kyle@nuchat.UUCP (09/15/87)
In article <496@csm9a.UUCP>, japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) writes: > brackets that require a hacksaw and pliers to use IBM boards... it still > uses a proprietary pin out on the drive cable requiring you to purchase > a Tandy drive or hack the cable... it still requires a Tandy Printer cable. Since when does the Tandy 1000A use a proprietary pinout on the drive cable? I have *NEVER* had a problem replacing the drive cable with a longer one. There is absolutely nothing proprietary about it. It helps if you know a little history about the TRS line, though. Actually, R/S's scheme makes more sense than IBM's. Radio Shack configures the drive (the way things were designed to be done in the first place) and IBM configures the cable (YECH!) I can understand why IBM does this, especially in this age of VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME! thinking, but it really is a pain in the rear.
japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) (09/15/87)
>>You can bet if it's a Tandy it is the most uncompatible machine imaginable! >W R O N G ! >This is a generalization that does not hold true. The Tandy 1000 >(which is subject that Joe was responding to) is more like the PC-Jr >that IBM came up with. So, if we were to generalize about the IBM >Joe was responding to a question about a TANDY 1000__ and he is >probably right about that particular model. The original Tandy 1000's >were not 100% IBM compat. and never claimed they were. The newer >models of the 1000's claim they are 100% compat. (they also have >bigger cases to support larger boards). I have never owned a 1000 D E F I N A T E L Y W R O N G ! ! ! Some people obviously believe every bit of marketing hype they read!!! First of all the 1000, be it _, A, SX, EX, TX, or HX IS NOT EVEN CLOSE to Jr. compatibility!!! The only thing similar to the Jr. is the presence of 16 color graphics in the same modes as the Jr.... but these graphics modes ARE NOT Jr. compatible since they occupy a different memory location than IBM's Jr.... I have quite a few Jr. programs which will not run on my 1000A and also Tandy software that will not work on a Jr.!!! Not only is the graphics incompatible but the hardware is Totally incompatible.... the Jr. has NO SLOTS and has plug in Roms - the Tandy has 3 IBM incompatible slots (Tandy compatible) and no rom slots! The Tandy also uses different joysticks, printer cables, ect. Secondly, the new 1000's have most of the problems of the older models. They have a keyboard which restricts the use of many software products such as Framework, What's Best, Minix, ect... They require a special Tandy compatible printer cable, a Tandy compatible joystick, a Tandy compatible monitor (the new models use a slightly different scan rate), and whats more they STILL have a 10" board limitation and require a bent bracket.... the only way to add an IBM compatible card to a Tandy 1000 is by sawing off the tip of the bracket and bending it!!!! If you can find a card short enough to fit and otherwise compatible... SX users on our BBS have reported problems with the newer Tandy's that are supposed to take an IBM compatible hard disk (mine required cutting traces, running jumpers, and burning a ROM), as well as problems running any EGA other than Tandy's. There is no reason to suspect that Tandy has corrected these problems on the newer machines. Tandy appears to have gone out of their way to design the 1000 to be as IBM incompatible as humanly possible in order to force you to buy their overpriced (and usually out of date) peripherals! I too am an old time Tandy customer, having bought a model 1, 3, 2 Coco's, and finnaly a 1000A. I will NEVER buy another computer from them again!!!! And will do everything possible to discourage others from making the same mistake that I did!!! Joe Applegate - Colorado School of Mines Computing Center {seismo, hplabs}!hao!isis!csm9a!japplega or SYSOP @ M.O.M. AI BBS - (303) 273-3989 - 300/1200/2400 8-N-1 24 hrs. *** UNIX is a philosophy, not an operating system *** *** BUT it is a registered trademark of AT&T, so get off my back ***
jvc@prism.UUCP (09/18/87)
Cast: >>> Joe >> me > Joe again me again ------------- >>>You can bet if it's a Tandy it is the most incompatible machine imaginable! >>W R O N G ! >>This is a generalization that does not hold true. The Tandy 1000 >>(which is subject that Joe was responding to) is more like the PC-Jr >>that IBM came up with. So, if we were to generalize about the IBM Here's the part of that sentence he left out: products we would have to say "You can bet if it's a IBM it is the most incompatible machine imaginable!" [I thought people reading/posting to this newsgroup were smart enough to know you can't make such generalizations. I guess I was mistaken] Now maybe I didn't make my point very well. I was trying to say that the 1000 was an attempt at making a cheaper and somewhat compatible machine just like IBM did with the PC Jr. Tandy had the same trouble that IBM had in that neither were truly (sometimes far from )compatible with the PC/XT/AT. [ Joe, look read this: Before Joe flames me on my last statement, I still can't verify whether the NEW 1000's are 100% compatible, and I probably never will be able to since I don't intend to by one ] I did not mean to imply (and I don't think I did) that the Tandy 1000 was a PC Jr. compatible. The part about the generalizations still holds -- the 1000s are a separate class of machine from the 1200, 3000, 4000. >>Joe was responding to a question about a TANDY 1000__ and he is >>probably right about that particular model. The original Tandy 1000's >>were not 100% IBM compat. and never claimed they were. The newer >>models of the 1000's claim they are 100% compat. (they also have >>bigger cases to support larger boards). I have never owned a 1000 Joe left out the rest of the above sentence [again] (he must not have read it). The sentence indicated that I've NEVER owned a 1000 and since I had no way of VERIFYING any info I heard about the compatibility I did not plan to continue the discussion of the 1000. If fact, I didn't/don't care whether the 1000 is compatible or not. It's his generalization that I objected to. >D E F I N A T E L Y W R O N G ! ! ! >Some people obviously believe every bit of marketing hype they read!!! >First of all the 1000, be it _, A, SX, EX, TX, or HX IS NOT EVEN CLOSE >to Jr. compatibility!!! The only thing similar to the Jr. is the >... he continues comparing the 1000 to the PC Jr. -- useful (?) info but has nothing to do with my first response to his original note. I did not provide any compatibility info about the 1000 except to say that Tandy CLAIMS it is 100% PC compatible and I also stated that I could not verify this claim. [Joe, did you not even read what I wrote] >I too am an old time >Tandy customer, having bought a model 1, 3, 2 Coco's, and finnaly a 1000A. >I will NEVER buy another computer from them again!!!! And will do >everything possible to discourage others from making the same mistake >that I did!!! > Joe Applegate - Colorado School of Mines Computing Center [Hey Joe, are you implying that the model 1, 3, or the Coco's were ever even intended to be PC compatible or even that they were intended to run PC/MS-DOS. I certainly hope not.] Again, Joe has only owned the computers that Tandy has made for the folks who can't afford a real clone (just like the people who bought the PC Jr because they couldn't afford the real thing). If you want a real clone then buy a real clone. No one has yet shown that the CLONES for the PC/XT/ATs made by Tandy aren't 100% compatible. (1200, 3000, 4000) Joe: "Hey, none of these grapes look/feel/taste like oranges so those oranges certainly don't look/feel/taste like oranges." jvc@mirror.tmc.com
toma@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) (09/18/87)
In article <316@nuchat.UUCP> kyle@nuchat.UUCP (Kyle Rhorer) writes: >In article <496@csm9a.UUCP>, japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) writes: >> uses a proprietary pin out on the drive cable requiring you to purchase >> a Tandy drive or hack the cable... it still requires a Tandy Printer cable. > > >Since when does the Tandy 1000A use a proprietary pinout on the drive cable? >There is absolutely nothing proprietary about it. >Actually, R/S's scheme makes more sense than IBM's. Radio Shack configures >the drive (the way things were designed to be done in the first place) >and IBM configures the cable (YECH!). Historically, with the TRS-80, a special cable was used -- all the drive select lines were tied together on the drive, and the cable had missing pins so that only the DS1 pin connected on socket 1, DS2 on socket 2, etc. You could use standard drives (with a jumper for drive select) with a standard cable or with the tandy cable by turning it upsidedown. Tandy definately does the printer cable better. You just take ribbon cable and clamp an edge connector on one end and a D-shell ("Centronics") on the other any you are done. You cannot readily use ribbon cable with the DB-25 connector IBM uses -- the signals don't match for the control lines. Tom Almy (usual disclaimer. I own a Tandy 1000, but also have two PC/AT clones, and a couple of CP/M machines that gather dust but also had sensible connections--Tandy style)
leonard@bucket.UUCP (09/20/87)
In article <2673@tekgvs.TEK.COM> toma@tekgvs.UUCP (Tom Almy) writes:
<Historically, with the TRS-80, a special cable was used -- all the drive
<select lines were tied together on the drive, and the cable had missing pins
<so that only the DS1 pin connected on socket 1, DS2 on socket 2, etc. You
<could use standard drives (with a jumper for drive select) with a standard
<cable or with the tandy cable by turning it upsidedown.
Actually, if you are willing to set the drive jumpers yourself, you can run
a drive on any Tandy machine with a straight cable (no pins pulled!).
I've used an old Model I printer cable (34 pin card-edge connector on both ends)
to hook drives up to various Tandy gear.
And Tandy *does* use a non-standard pinout on some machines. They used side select
for either drive select 3 or 4 (can't remember which now). But this only matters
on the Model 1....
--
Leonard Erickson ...!tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard
CIS: [70465,203]
"I used to be a hacker. Now I'm a 'microcomputer specialist'.
You know... I'd rather be a hacker."