jem97@leah.Albany.Edu (Jim Mower) (09/04/87)
Has anyone used WordPerfect 4.2 with an Apple LaserWriter and been able to get correct right justification on the printed page? Using Times Portrait, I get correct underlining and bold but bad proportional spacing. Also, only the first page of a document prints out. I am running version 4.2 on a Zenith AT clone, printing out of com1 with MODE setting of 96,8,n,1,p. LaserWriter is set at 9600. Help!
tj@utgpu.UUCP (09/09/87)
It is about time that I posted another note like this on the net. I wrote to WordPerfect 2 MONTHS ago with a nice letter explaining all the problems with WordPerfect and Proportional spaced printers, in particular the Apple LAserWriter. We have gone the direction of PostScript here at U of T Computing Services and so the software we use supports PostScript. WordPerfect has many problems. First, the problem you report sounds like a font setting problem. When using the LaserWriter, you must use pitch 13* for font 1 to get things right. You also have to set the margins to 13 and 97 to fill out a page. This is the beginning of the problems. If you want to use a smaller font for say a quote, you have to switch the font, the pitch, and the margins. Often the margins are impossible to line up in the different fonts simply because it wants margins in integer character positions and roundoff causes differences. The fact that it prints only the first page may be because the LaserWriter and the PC are not handshaking. WordPerfect (unlike Word and Final Word and PC-Write etc...) chose not to support Xon-Xoff handshaking between the PC and the LaserWriter. Not only does this mean that SOME OLD LaserWriters CANNOT work with WordPerfect (the rev 23 LaserWriters cannot hardware handshake) but it also means that a factory fresh LaserWriter will not work right off without sending the WordPerfect INITLWRT.PS file to it. Note that this file changes the handshaking to hardware permanently. It does not reset back on power off. It you share the ALW with other programs that use the serial port then you have to set and reset it each time. This uses up the 100k lives of the EEROM in the ALW where this non-volatile information is stored. Other problems? Here is a brief list. This is strictly for information purposes, this list will have no effect on WordPerfect Corporation even if they are listening they do not seem to do anything about it even when you write them. 1) From printer control screen you issue the print command and tell WordPerfect to start at the 18th page or so and WordPerfect initializes the LaserWriter, starts going through the file to find the 18th page and the ALW times out before it gets there. THEY DIDN'T CHNAGE THE DEFAULT 60 SECOND TIMEOUT!!!!! 2) The "PostScript" output uses 8 bit data. something that even the BASIC PostScript programmer knows is a bad idea. It makes it real hard to send the stuff to a network printer. 3) As mentioned, margins have to be changed all over the document. A WordPerfect document entered for the ALW is just about DEVICE DEPENDANT. You would be really hard pressed to preview it on a dot matrix non proportional spaced printer. This is the biggest problem. 4) You can NORMALLY bold text with the bold function. On the ALW this switches to a bold NORMAL font. If you bold some large or some small text it changes it to the normal sized. You cannot get some combinations very easily. If you bold an italics font it switches to bold normal. Bold italics must be done with a font change instead. 5) A document is only one font style. You cannot switch from Times to Helvetica in a document. You can get a VERY limited selection of sizes of the font, but only one font. 6) Non Encapsulated PostScript output (EPS). Not even the slightest attempt to make conforming PostScript. Not even the simple %! comment as documented in the PostScript reference manual. These are the ones I can remember. It is a shame that such a popular program is such a dog when used with such a good printer. I used Microsoft Word to write my letter to WordPerfect!!! tj
regoli@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (michael regoli) (09/10/87)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc Subject: Re: WordPerfect and Apple LaserWriter Summary: Expires: References: <497@leah.Albany.Edu> <1987Sep9.102331.20798@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> Sender: Reply-To: regoli@silver.UUCP (michael regoli) Followup-To: Distribution: na Organization: iu cs, bloomington Keywords: pulling my hair out.... In article <1987Sep9.102331.20798@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> tj@gpu.utcs.UUCP (tj) writes: > >It is about time that I posted another note like this on the net. >I wrote to WordPerfect 2 MONTHS ago with a nice letter explaining >all the problems with WordPerfect and Proportional spaced printers, in >particular the Apple LAserWriter. >[...] >5) A document is only one font style. You cannot switch from Times to >Helvetica in a document. You can get a VERY limited selection of sizes of >the font, but only one font. sounds like your printer's problem, not wp's. we use wp 4.2 on an oasys 810 series r (richoh engine) and can change fonts with the "flick of a font code." for instance, 13*,1 prints times roman; 13*,2 prints times roman italic; and 13*,3 prints helvetica. so there's three fonts right there on one page...not to mention the use of F6 and F8 (bold and underline). > >[...] It is a shame that such a popular >program is such a dog when used with such a good printer. maybe you should now approach apple, not wordperfect. -- michael regoli indiana university, bloomington uucp ...ihnp4!iuvax!silver!regoli arpa regoli@silver.bacs.indiana.edu bitnet regoli@iubacs
David_J_Buerger@cup.portal.com (09/10/87)
WordPerfect 4.2's right-justification/proportional spacing feature will work correctly if you set up the pitch control properly. You should go into the ALT-F8 menu, option 1 and change the pitch to 13* (the asterisk denotes proportional spacing, and 13 characters per inch seems to work best with the LW). djb
tj@utgpu.UUCP (09/11/87)
Exactly my point.... You have a printer far less capable than a PostScript printer and it does some things better with WordPerfect than a PostScript printer does with WordPerfect. This of course means we should all scrap capable printers and buy brain dead printers so that they aren't too smart that they make the software developers at WordPerfect look bad. Curious questions... Can you use the BOLD functions on the Times, Helvetica and Times Italic and get REAL bold Times and REAL bold Helvetica and REAL bold Times Italic? Or do they give you shadow print bold or something crude??? The LaserWriter is capable of ANY size of Times, Helvetica or Courier (the LaserWriter Plus has like 13 more FAMILIES) and there is a true Bold and Italic for all of them. WordPerfect only lets you use 3 sizes of them. Now, if your printer allowed you to switch into a smaller font, try a paragraph in the smaller font and see what your margins and/or spacing do. With margins set in characters, if you change the character size, the margins change. I want to be able to set the margins in inches or picas or centimetres and have WordPerfect figure out the number of character positions it should use AND i want it to be able to use fractional characters. Otherwise if I mix a 13 pitch and an 8 pitch font on the same page, with integer character margins and a 1 inch margin, the margins CANNOT POSSIBLY EVER match due to the lack of an integer common denominator near 1 inch. Software is supposed to make things easier... tj
dboyes@uoregon.UUCP (David Boyes) (09/13/87)
In article <334@silver.bacs.indiana.edu> regoli@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (michael regoli) writes: >Reply-To: regoli@silver.UUCP (michael regoli) >Keywords: pulling my hair out.... >In article <1987Sep9.102331.20798@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> tj@gpu.utcs.UUCP (tj) writes: >>5) A document is only one font style. You cannot switch from Times to >>Helvetica in a document. You can get a VERY limited selection of sizes of >>the font, but only one font. >sounds like your printer's problem, not wp's. we use wp 4.2 on an oasys >810 series r (richoh engine) and can change fonts with the "flick of a >font code." for instance, 13*,1 prints times roman; 13*,2 prints times roman >italic; and 13*,3 prints helvetica. so there's three fonts right there on >one page...not to mention the use of F6 and F8 (bold and underline). No, the original poster is ABSOLUTELY correct. Note that you are NOT using the same printer -- whenever I try to use WP with a Laserwriter it does the exact same thing as tj@gpu.utcs's printer does. Besides, what's this business of calling each different permutation of a font (i.e., bold, italic, etc) a seperate FONT? What a stupid thing -- that's what the darn computer is for. Humans shouldn't have to mess with that at all -- that's the job of the printer driver. Another example of poor design philosophy in WP...sigh. He's also right in that previewing documents on a dot matrix printer is next to impossible. This is WRONG -- WP states that documents will be device independent within the limitations of the printer. If you have a reasonable dot matrix printer with proportional spacing, you should be able to get a reasonable idea of what the page is going to look like, regardless of the intended output device. It's stupid, and it's frustrating as hell. >>[...] It is a shame that such a popular >>program is such a dog when used with such a good printer. >maybe you should now approach apple, not wordperfect. No, the blame lies squarely on WP. WP does a crappy job of handling the downloadable fonts on HP Laserjet+ and LJ II's as well. Face it, when WP is presented with a printer that can do things that are more complicated than a series of escape sequences, it falls flat. Their tech support line (when you can get in contact with someone....grr) freely admits that the Postscript support is a hack job and that they're planning on fixing it in the "desktop publishing" version of WP. Apple followed the standards (for a change!) -- it's WP's fault. > >-- > michael regoli > indiana university, bloomington >uucp ...ihnp4!iuvax!silver!regoli arpa regoli@silver.bacs.indiana.edu > bitnet regoli@iubacs -- David Boyes ARPA: 556%OREGON1.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU Systems Division BITNET: 556@OREGON1 University of Oregon Computing Center UUCP: dboyes@uoregon.UUCP
mdf@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark D. Freeman) (09/14/87)
In <1987Sep11.105703.3982@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> tj@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Terry Jones) writes: >Now, if your printer allowed you to switch into a smaller font, try a >paragraph in the smaller font and see what your margins and/or spacing do. >With margins set in characters, if you change the character size, the margins >change. I want to be able to set the margins in inches or picas or centimetres >and have WordPerfect figure out the number of character positions it should >use AND i want it to be able to use fractional characters. Otherwise if I mix >a 13 pitch and an 8 pitch font on the same page, with integer character margins >and a 1 inch margin, the margins CANNOT POSSIBLY EVER match due to the lack >of an integer common denominator near 1 inch. So, buy Microsoft Word... -- Mark D. Freeman (614) 262-3703 StrongPoint Systems, Inc. mdf@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu 2440 Medary Avenue ...!cbosgd!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mdf Columbus, OH 43202 Guest account at The Ohio State University
greggt@ncoast.UUCP (Gregg Thompson) (09/16/87)
You will get better and faster results on how to fix ANY problems relating to WordPerfect what-so-ever. If they name your machine, whether computer, printer, or otherwise their telephone support is the best I have ever used. Getting to a person might take a while but it is well worth the wait. WordPerfect phone number for ALL the WordPerfect programs is 1-800-321-5906. Some guides lines: 1) use a touchtone phone for faster entry 2) have your registerED id for WordPerfect 3) have ALL manuals for any of the componants you may be discussing 4) be right at the computer that you are having the problem 5) plan to spend as little as 5 minutes to as much as a half-an-hour on the phone, if not more. 6) be PATIENT when waiting on hold and especially when the person SLOWLY steps you through the program at THEIR own speed. 7) be able to reduplicate the problem or situation After following those guidelines give WordPerfect a call. As I said they are superb. Also for those who have registerED copies, you will notice that the phone number I have given is the `general' phone line for WordPerfect, this is due to the fact they disconnected the other ones. Gregg Thompson P.S. I have NO affiliation with WordPerfect in any way other than I am a VERY happy consumer!
brian@prism.UUCP (09/30/87)
We have been evaluating various pc-based word processors for use by our
admin staff, and chose Word Perfect due to its industry acceptance, base of
trained users, and availability of related services(accessories, training).
Oh, I guess we considered performance as well :-).
We have 50++ pc's here, of which at least 25 were going to be used with
word perfect. All have ethernet, and All have (are going to have) PC-NFS
for file and printer sharing through our two Prism Supermini computers (we
are using Adobe's transcript software).
Everything was going well in our evaluation of word perfect, until we had
to test the laser printing of word perfect documents. We installed the
software on our test pc, and attempted to print a document to our lasers
through the network print facility of PCNFS. No luck. It seems (as others
have discovered) that the printer driver is written with NO REGARD for the
rules and suggestions made by Adobe for Postscript language program
conventions. The files that were spooled were filled with control sequences
and Hi-bit (using the eighth data bit) characters. Our Transcript queuing and
resource administration software was not happy in the least. Sometimes the
printers would hang, but we would NEVER get any information out.
We traced it down to the fact that the header file that Word Perfect appends
onto each document sent to the laser printer has a "magic number" that
the transcript software does not understand. The transcript software
thinks that the file is a regular text file, and attempts to print it that
way. That doesn't work, since there are control and non-printable characters.
The document gets rejected. Also, word perfect includes a control-D in the
file that is sent to the printer. Transcript also sends a control-D after
it
dumps the file. The laser printer echoes the TWO control-D's, and confuses
the transcript software.
SO, I rewrote part of the pscomm.c program that comes with the transcript
software to recognize a new "magic number" at the top of word perfect files,
(which I made %!PS-WPERF-1.0 (in the flavor of troff etc)) and to not send
the control-D at the end of the document (since there is one in all word
perfect files). This at least caused the documents to print on our laser
printers, and the transcript software to keep track of usage. I also modified
the Word perfect header file to have the "magic number" as the first
line (The file pscript.ps in the word perfect directory). Remember to remove
the ending CONTROL-Z if you edit that file (I used debug).
Once we were dumping files, testing for suitability began.
Word perfect is only able to print in Courier font on a TI OmniLaser 2115.
Not much better on the Apple Laserwriter; we get Times (which is what we
want) but only Proportional spacing with a certain font size (A loss).
What are we going to do? Use Microsoft Word. We could figure out the
character widths ourselves for the fonts that we want, and
incorporate them with the printer config program that comes with word
perfect; however we have already invested enough effort in getting
their program to work.
We had called Word Perfect support about this, gave them all of the
information, and found out that they knew that the Postscript driver is not
that great, and to wait fo the newer version of the word processor that they
have in beta. They had no justification for going against the Adobe standards
for postscript format files.
If anyone is using Word Perfect with the OmniLaser and getting proportional
Times and Helvetica, I'd like to hear about it. I will help anyone
get their Word Perfect working with their Transcript software,
either sources are necessary, or the control-D needs filtering (don't
forget the magic number at the top of the file).
----
Brian K. Moran -- brian@mirror.TMC.COM
UUCP : {mit-eddie, ihnp4!inmet, wjh12, cca, datacube}!mirror!brian
ARPA : brian@mgm.mit.edu
TryThis: brian@mirror.zone1.com
(we forward for .zone1.com)
Mirror Systems 2067 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA, 02140
Telephone: 617-661-0777 extension 122
"17.82 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."
---tj@utgpu.UUCP (10/11/87)
Re: WordPerfect and LaserWriter First the simple stuff... If you want times or helvetica with the TI printer then tell WordPerfect you have an Apple LaserWriter Times or Helvetica (this is what it says in the PRHELP program that comes on the WordPerfect disk...) Second, the tough stuff... You can make all the changes you want to the stupid wordperfect pscript.ps and it won't work well across the network printers. It is the use of control characters and 8 bit characters that will choke you. This was just blatant laziness on the part of WordPerfect in writing their driver. You need to rewrite a driver that uses the proper \xxx notation for 8 bit extended characters and new valuse for the function commands so that the control characters aren't in there. I wrote a 3 page letter to WordPerfect which they lost. I sent it again along with another two pages of newer problems. I called and they have "passed it on to testing and future suggestions section" and the person that was handling it hasn't even had the courteosy to call me back in spite of three calls to her. Last week I did some performance testing to see how fast the thing (WordPerfect is the "thing") prints on a direct connected QMS printer. We were getting 2 pages a minute. I thought it was because we were using a slow PC and WordPerfect wasn't sending data fast enough. I switched to a 386 Zenith and got (you guessed it) 2 pages a minute. The WordPerfect Post- Script code isn't even efficient!!!! We are just trying to decide what we can do here at University of Toronto with all the people that want to print on the LaserWriter from WordPerfect. There is no denying that it is a popular program and that it does a lot of things well, but it takes so much handholding to get a good document out on a PostScript printer that it isn't worth it. We charge for time as well as pages here and it takes them so long it is ridiculous and really expensive. With the last experience I had I am ready to suggest that we can no longer offer assistance to WordPerfect users on PostScript printers because it takes too much staff time to assist them. 50 % is due to people not understanding how to use a proportional space printer, the other half is due to the programs poor support for proportional space printers and their particularly bad support for the PostScript printers. You mentioned Word as a solution? Well, to start off with they look better and really are, but as for network stuff there are some of the same problems. They also do not follow the Adobe comment conventions (magic number you call it) so there is no %! in the first line. They have a ^D at the beginning and this causes grief. They make their stuff stay permanent which I hate so you have to remove the serverdict begin 0 exitserver line and the ^D at the end and the if msdict known else stop stuff. Also deeper in the code (this is all in applaser and appland ini files) there is a currentfile closefile this is a really good way to end things except it sends a ^D which confuses the hell out of transcript code (really the problem here is poor Adobe transcript code!) Nuke the currentfile closefile. Also, this initialization code isn't prepended each time you print so you need it to stay resident (but I don't want it resident!!!) but you could probably change the prd file to prepend it every time (someone stole our Word printer book or I would tell you how... piss me off.) Like in general micro users are the most inconsiderate lazy developers I have ever seen with no regard for the published rules and they take as many short cuts as it takes to get a product (no matter how shoddy) to market!!! Sorry this was so long. I have this really naive idea that some of these developers might actually be listening and even more exciting, maybe they will do something!!!!!!! tj
robert@pvab.UUCP (Robert Claeson) (10/14/87)
In article <206900084@prism>, brian@prism.UUCP writes: > We have 50++ pc's here, of which at least 25 were going to be used with > word perfect. All have ethernet, and All have (are going to have) PC-NFS > for file and printer sharing through our two Prism Supermini computers (we > are using Adobe's transcript software). Same here, except that we use Sun. > Everything was going well in our evaluation of word perfect, until we had > to test the laser printing of word perfect documents. We installed the > software on our test pc, and attempted to print a document to our lasers > through the network print facility of PCNFS. No luck. Ever tried this without installing the Adobe Transcript software on the host? -- Robert Claeson, System Administrator, PVAB, Box 4040, S-171 04 Solna, Sweden eunet: robert@pvab uucp: sun!enea!pvab!robert