edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) (10/30/87)
Well October has come and is almost gone. Yet my mailbox is
still empty. Where is my MSC 5.0? Has anyone received it?
Did anyone else notice the ad for it in PC connection ads?
How much longer do we have to wait?
How do these companies get away with vaporware? Is MS vaporware
since Bill lost so much money?
mark
--
edwards@vms.macc.wisc.edu
{allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!edwards
UW-Madison, 1210 West Dayton St., Madison WI 53706ajm@k.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (10/30/87)
In article <1926@uwmacc.UUCP> edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) writes: >Well October has come and is almost gone. Yet my mailbox is >still empty. Where is my MSC 5.0? Has anyone received it? >How much longer do we have to wait? I too, was wondering, and called up Microsoft yesterday. They claimed that shipping would start today (friday), and they would ship on a first ordered, first shipped basis. Also, in the latest issue of doctor dobbs journal, an add for MSC 5.0 said "now shipping". So if you ordered it long ago, maybe a week or two more? If not, well, it would still make a nice Christmas present from Microsoft ... :-) -- dan farmer (ajm@k.cc.purdue.edu)
davidsen@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP (William E. Davidsen Jr) (10/31/87)
In article <1926@uwmacc.UUCP> edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) writes: |Well October has come and is almost gone. Yet my mailbox is |still empty. Where is my MSC 5.0? Has anyone received it? |Did anyone else notice the ad for it in PC connection ads? |How much longer do we have to wait? I believe thet MSC 5.0 is shipping now. | |How do these companies get away with vaporware? Is MS vaporware |since Bill lost so much money? Microsoft wasn't satisfied with the performance or reliability of the compiler in beta test. The test was extended until all the problems were fixed. When that seemed close, MS started the ads (there is a LONG lead time), but held up the shipment when testing revealed more room for improvement. Some users blast a company for releasing a product before testing (I could name about five major companies who ship a reliable product in the third release). People complain when a company like MS doesn't ship on time. The perfect company would test before announcing, but of course they would go broke because the "ship when it run anything" companies would have grabbed the business. I see nothing wrong with advertizing a product when it's in beta test. It lets the customer know that there is a reason to wait. I do object to taking orders to finance software development (I know at least one company which started that way). Compare the first release of C from Microsoft, V3.0 (previous version were from Lattice) with other compilers first release. I think the seriousness of bugs was much lower in MSC. Each release has gotten better, and the new version is fine indeed. I think you'll find it was worth waiting for, and I wish I could give all my C students a chance to use QuickC with Codeview. I miss the point of Bill losing money. Was that as cheap a shot as it sounds, or is there a relationship there? -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
nortond@killer.UUCP (10/31/87)
In article <1926@uwmacc.UUCP>, edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) writes: > Well October has come and is almost gone. Yet my mailbox is > still empty. Where is my MSC 5.0? Has anyone received it? > Did anyone else notice the ad for it in PC connection ads? > How much longer do we have to wait? In July or August, I recieived a card that said it would ship in September. In September, I received a letter saying that it would ship in October. I called on October 29 to the number on the card to ask when they would start shipping to which they replied, "today...you should receive it next week". October. Just barely.
obie@dartvax.UUCP (11/01/87)
We've been in almost daily contact with Microsoft regarding bugs in the MSC 4.0 product. In the meantime, I always ask for an updated shipping date for MSC 5/QuickC. Sepetmber 1 is was October 1. Sepetmber 15 it was mid-october. October 1 it was late october, early november. Now they're saying it might be mid-november (just in time for the Christmas rush). (sigh) at least THIS upgrade was free. (The reward for finding, verifying, and showing corrections for bugs in MSC 4).
Isaac_K_Rabinovitch@cup.portal.com (11/03/87)
Bill Davidsen:
->I see nothing wrong with advertizing a product when it's in beta test.
->It lets the customer know that there is a reason to wait. I do object to
->taking orders to finance software development (I know at least one
->company which started that way).
The problem isn't that companies advertise products that haven't passed
QA. The problem is that there's no way from looking at the advertising
to distinguish companies who products are behind schedule from the purveyors
of vaporware. Incidentally, even "reputable" companies have been known
to advertise products that don't even exist as specifications, just to
take the winds of their competitors sails.
Honest software advertising would indicate the planned release date instead
of always implying that product already exists. This breaks with Madison
Avenue tradition and also cause the company some embarassment when dates
slip, but it would raise the most customers' trust in the company. Of course,
the leading MS-DOS software companies have always had a "we don't care, we
don't have to" approach.
Isaac Rabinovitch
Disclaimer: Just because I think you're wrong, doesn't
mean I don't think you're a fun person!
:-)richw@rosevax.Rosemount.COM (Rich Wagenknecht) (11/05/87)
In article <1926@uwmacc.UUCP>, edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) writes: > Well October has come and is almost gone. Yet my mailbox is > still empty. Where is my MSC 5.0? Has anyone received it? > Did anyone else notice the ad for it in PC connection ads? > How much longer do we have to wait? > > How do these companies get away with vaporware? Is MS vaporware > since Bill lost so much money? > > mark > -- > edwards@vms.macc.wisc.edu > {allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!edwards > UW-Madison, 1210 West Dayton St., Madison WI 53706 No kidding. I mailed back my card as soon as I purchased MSC 4.0 this summer. Remember the blurb: C 5.0 will be distributed on a first come first serve basis, so mail your card immediately. Well Bill buddy, I rushed out and bought MSC 4.0 and mailed my card in immediately in order to 'reserve my copy of MSC 5.0'. What a fucking joke. I should have waited. I see that EGGHEAD will ups you a MSC 5.0 within 3 days. Boy, they sure must have bought lots of MSC 4.0 copies in order to reserve so many 5.0 copies. Nice scam Bill. Let's see... (Bill speaking) we've anounced MSC 5.0 way ahead of its release date and now people are goind to delay purchases of MSC 4.0, better come up with a scam to make sure our MSC 4.0 sales don't drop... God I'm pissed. Ever thought of used car sales Bill????
mbate@inmet.UUCP (11/07/87)
I just received my credit card bill and found that MicroSoft posted a charge for MSC 5.0 on October 22. They originally claimed they wouldn't charge until they shipped. Nothing's arrived from them, nor have I heard of anyone who actually has MSC 5.0 yet. -- Michael Bate
vollmer@manta.NOSC.MIL (Tom Vollmer) (11/07/87)
> In article <1926@uwmacc.UUCP>, edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) writes: >> Well October has come and is almost gone. Yet my mailbox is >> still empty. Where is my MSC 5.0? Has anyone received it? ......lines deleted I called about 3 weeks ago. "Are you shipping MSC 5.0?" "Yes" (Order taking mode) "Fine where are our 5.0 upgrades?" "We will be shipping next month." (Order filling mode) Sigh....Tom
davej@entropy.ms.washington.edu (Dave Jenner) (11/09/87)
In article <149000008@inmet>, mbate@inmet.UUCP writes: > > I just received my credit card bill and found that MicroSoft > posted a charge for MSC 5.0 on October 22. They originally claimed > they wouldn't charge until they shipped. Nothing's arrived from > them, nor have I heard of anyone who actually has MSC 5.0 yet. > > -- Michael Bate Well, here goes, eventhough there will probably be a flood of messages like this. I received MSC 5.00 on Friday via UPS (regular). It was shipped the day before from across the lake. So, it really does exist. My credit card has been charged, according to the invoice, but I don't know when (it may have been earlier than the shipping date). -- Dave Jenner (206) 543-6182, 543-2888 (Message) Department of Astronomy, FM-20 BITNET: davej@uwaphast University of Washington UUCP: ...!uw-beaver!uw-entropy!phastvax!davej Seattle, WA 98195 INTERNET: davej@entropy.ms.washington.edu
todd@uhccux.UUCP (The Perplexed Wiz) (11/10/87)
In article <149000008@inmet> mbate@inmet.UUCP writes: > I just received my credit card bill and found that MicroSoft > posted a charge for MSC 5.0 on October 22. They originally claimed > they wouldn't charge until they shipped. Nothing's arrived from Heck, I sent my check early in August and they cashed it right away. I hope that Microsoft is making "good" use of all the interest they are collecting on "our" $$$! This is pretty typical of Microsoft. They announce products early and deliver them late and full of bugs. I have nightmares about the kinds of problems I'm going to hear about around here when OS/2 starts hitting campus...todd -- Todd Ogasawara, U. of Hawaii Faculty Development Program UUCP: {ihnp4,uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!sdcsvax!nosc!uhccux!todd ARPA: uhccux!todd@nosc.MIL BITNET: todd@uhccux INTERNET: todd@uhccux.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU
davidsen@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP (William E. Davidsen Jr) (11/12/87)
In article <149000008@inmet> mbate@inmet.UUCP writes: | | I just received my credit card bill and found that MicroSoft | posted a charge for MSC 5.0 on October 22. They originally claimed | they wouldn't charge until they shipped. Nothing's arrived from | them, nor have I heard of anyone who actually has MSC 5.0 yet. The last update offer that I got on a MS product expressly said that they would clear checks and credit when received. I don'y have mine, but could somone check theirs? I remember being pissed off that they wouldn't hold it until the product was shipped. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
hart@cp1.BELL-ATL.COM (Rod Hart) (11/14/87)
I received mine yesterday. Unfortunately one disk hadn't even been formated. I was still able to get most of it loaded and every thing looks very good so far. Maybe it is worth the wait. -- Signed by: Rod Hart (WA3MEZ) Minicomputer Technical Support District Chesapeake & Potomac Tel. Co. - A Bell Atlantic Company bellcore!cp1!hart - aplcen!cp1!hart - mimsy!cp1!hart - gamma!cp1!hart
mbate@inmet.UUCP (11/16/87)
I never expected to generate so much response to my remark that MicroSoft
charged my credit card in October (I now have MSC 5.0 - it must have
been shipped early November, so it's not big deal for me.)
However, I do specifically remember what the upgrade offer said about this.
Checks would be cashed when received, credit cards would be charged when
the product was shipped. On MASM 5.0, which was not announced until it
was ready to ship, they stated that credit cards would be charged upon
receipt of your order.
Now that I have MSC 5.0, I'm not sure whether to be pleased or not. I have one program that generates an internal compiler error - it compiled fine
with MSC 4.0 and also with QuickC. Another goes haywire when compiled
with the /Oi (generate intrinsic versions of some functions) flag.
On the other hand, QuickC is very nice for quickly cleaning up your
compile-time errors and CodeView seems to be cleaner than before.
- Michael Batealang@masscomp.UUCP (11/19/87)
In article <7838@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: >The last update offer that I got on a MS product expressly said that >they would clear checks and credit when received. I don'y have mine, but >could somone check theirs? I remember being pissed off that they >wouldn't hold it until the product was shipped. or written. Alan
Zatar_Braxana@milehi (Zatar Braxana) (11/22/87)
I *know* they've shipped MSC 5.0, because one of the sysops
in my area has it. I'd call MS and start yelling!.
Z.
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uucp: ...!{hao|isis}!scicom!milehi!oscarnortond@mosys.UUCP (Daniel A. Norton) (11/25/87)
In article <14.21A69BAB@milehi> Zatar_Braxana@milehi (Zatar Braxana) writes: > > I *know* they've shipped MSC 5.0, because one of the sysops > >in my area has it. I'd call MS and start yelling!. > > Z. I have my copy of MSC also, but it was a couple of days later than I had expected. I telephone Microsoft and the woman answering explained that the delivery schedule is dependent on when you mailed Microsoft your update request/money. So, if you waited until October/September to mail you update request, you will not have received it until after all of the July/August folks receive theirs. -- Daniel A. Norton nortond@mosys.UUCP c/o Momentum Systems Corporation ...uunet!mosys!nortond 2 Keystone Avenue Cherry Hill, NJ 08003 609/424-0734