dunno@killer.UUCP (09/20/87)
I have been following the (for lack of a better word) debate over the merits of qc vs tc. I own msc 4.0 masm 4.0 and am waiting for the upgrade. I also own turboc. I use tc for most of my work because of its quickness in replying to my mistakes in coding and the fact that if you enable all of the error checking capabilities it gives near lint feedback. I still use msc 4.0 for some applic- ations partialy for the compabitily of add on libraries. If you like tc fine use it , if you like msc fine use it; to complain and carry on to me seem to be childish, THIS IS MY OWN OPINION. Each has its strengths and weakness's. Use whatever is appropriate. Thanks for the time Don O'Connell
ram@lscvax.UUCP (Ric Messier) (02/08/88)
I've finally talked myself into picking up a C compiler and thought I
had even decided on which one to get. The price was just right and so
was the name when all of a sudden, I hear about this other compiler for
the same price and also from a well-respected name. Here's my dilemna:
I can pick up both Microsoft's Quick C and Borland's Turbo C for $53/ea but
I am not sure which is the better compiler. I have asked everyone I know
but they all give me the runaround without answering the really
important questions. Therefore, I am going to ask the experts, hopefully
those of you that have used either or both. I am currently using Turbo
Pascal and I like it well enough, mainly because I have recently
discovered a comprehensive reference manual that covers everything from
inline assembler code to DOS and BIOS interrupt calls within the code,
to graphics to version 4 and all the toolboxes to ... Well, you get the
picture. But I want to get a C package that is at least as good because,
all though the work I am currently doing is in Pascal, I have never been
partial to the language.
Anyway, to the point. I want to know what kind of package each of them
is, what kind of graphics capabilities, support of the Kernighan/Ritchie
C, other C compilers they are compatible with, how much low level access
there is, etc. I have asked the companies themselves for the infomation,
but I doubt that I will be getting any of it soon, if at all. The other
thing I want to know is what kind of editor comes with the latest
release of Turbo C. I am kind of partial to pulldown menus which are
included in the Quick C package and I don't particularly enjoy going to
the Turbo editor sometimes, though I realize that I can change the
commands to whatever suits me, there are just some things I want to do
that it can't.
Whatever information anyone can provide me with would be greatly
appreciated.
--
- Kilroy
'Just what cowpatch is Lyndonville, Vermont in anyway?'
dartvax!lscvax!ram
*** Can't deal, &CRASHwew@naucse.UUCP (Bill Wilson) (02/11/88)
Educators can pick up Turbo C for $39.95 directly from Borland. Most of the articles I have read indicate that Turbo C is superior to Quick C. On our campus here we have also had Quick C blow away hard drives, so be careful. Bill Wilson
bobc@hplsla.HP.COM ( Bob Cutler) (02/11/88)
I've been using QuickC at home now for a couple of weeks. The integrated
editor/compiler/debugger is very nice. The only real problem it seems
to have is not allowing full control over the compiler/linker. I'm
concerned about bugs in the compiler, but since I've never had to
worry about memory models before, the problems I'm having could be self
inflicted. QuickC has four memory models compact, small, medium, and
large. It's my understanding that TurboC has a few more. If only the
IBM PC's were based on the 68000 ...
QuickC version 1.0 doesn't support Hercules graphics mode. TurboC does.
Since I have a Hercules card, that's been a problem. Thanks to the
recent posting of information on the Hercules card I can at least draw a
line in graphics mode now. I called Microsoft and asked them about
Hercules support. The person I talked to wasn't sure, but thought that
Hercules would be supported in the next revision. It's possible, but
I wouldn't count on it.
The documentation that comes with QuickC is OK. There are three books:
a C reference manual (kind of like K&R), a QuickC reference manual that
describes how to use the product, and a library reference manual.
I wouldn't worry about picking the wrong compiler. At $53 each, how far
wrong can you go? Just remember, Microsoft has a $250 compiler and $125
assembler that they'd also like to sell you.
***************** Put usual opinions disclaimer here ************************
Bob Cutler
Hewlett-Packard
Lake Stevens Instrument Division
hplsla!bobcpjh@mccc.UUCP (Peter J. Holsberg) (02/11/88)
In article <567@naucse.UUCP> wew@naucse.UUCP (Bill Wilson) writes: | |Educators can pick up Turbo C for $39.95 directly from |Borland. I just got my coupons and found that the new price is $44.95. Still better than mail order at ~ $65. Incidentally, essentially ALL of BORLAND's products are available at a discount to educators and educatees. (I said "essentially" because I'm C-ing my A! :-)) -- Peter Holsberg UUCP: {rutgers!}princeton!mccc!pjh Technology Division CompuServe: 70240,334 Mercer College GEnie: PJHOLSBERG Trenton, NJ 08690 Voice: 1-609-586-4800
mr@homxb.UUCP (mark) (02/13/88)
In article <567@naucse.UUCP>, wew@naucse.UUCP (Bill Wilson) writes: > > Educators can pick up Turbo C for $39.95 directly from > Borland. Most of the articles I have read indicate that > Turbo C is superior to Quick C. On our campus here we have also > had Quick C blow away hard drives, so be careful. > > Bill Wilson GODDAM !!! I also had quick C blow away my drive. It wrote all over the FAT table. The program was as simple as you can get : fp = fopen(.. some file ..) fclose(fp); Fortunately, I had another copy of the FAT table and was able to recover after only 4 hours of panic. mark homxb!mr
Devin_E_Ben-Hur@cup.portal.com (02/15/88)
Turbo C's Compact, Large, and Huge models all assume DS != SS.
greg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Greg Laskin) (02/16/88)
In article <1515@homxb.UUCP> mr@homxb.UUCP (mark) writes: >GODDAM !!! I also had quick C blow away my drive. It wrote >all over the FAT table. The program was as simple as you can >get : > > fp = fopen(.. some file ..) > fclose(fp); Yes, that's old news. Some versions of Western Digital XT Hard Disk controller software use a software interrupt that conflicts with software interrupt usage by QC. Certainly, the folks at Microsoft chose the software interrupt they used just to spite you. Of course, others might say that QC works just fine but your disk controller is brain damaged and wiped out your disk. In any case, it has nothing to do with the program, simple or otherwise. -- Greg Laskin "When everybody's talking and nobody's listening, how can we decide?" INTERNET: Greg.Laskin@gryphon.CTS.COM UUCP: ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax!gryphon!greg rutgers!marque!gryphon!greg codas!ddsw1!gryphon!greg
derose@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu (02/17/88)
I'd be a lot interested in the Turbo Pascal book you mentioned! I haven't found a book that covers version 4.0 yet, and your description was very interesting! Please leave a note with title, author, etc... Thanks! BTW, I've been using Quick C for a month and a half and I'm pretty happy with it. What made me decide towards Quick C was the subset of the Codeview debugger built right into the environment. You have the editor, compiler, linker and debugger all in an integrated environment, and that makes program developing a lot easier! e
Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (02/18/88)
In article <272@megatek.UUCP>, hollen@sahara.megatek.uucp (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: }Unfortunately, Turbo C does not have the symbolic information necessary }to use Codeview in source debugging mode. [...] Try "tcc -M -y file". This will produce a .MAP file with public symbols and line numbers, which either SYMDEB or CodeView can use for source debugging. What TC doesn't give you is the special CodeView info that will allow it to display local variables and the structure of various data types. -- {harvard,uunet,ucbvax}!b.gp.cs.cmu.edu!ralf -=-=- AT&T: (412)268-3053 (school) ARPA: RALF@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU |"Tolerance means excusing the mistakes others make. FIDO: Ralf Brown at 129/31 | Tact means not noticing them." --Arthur Schnitzler BITnet: RALF%B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU@CMUCCVMA -=-=- DISCLAIMER? I claimed something?
Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (02/18/88)
In article <1750@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>, asjoshi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Amit S. Joshi) writes: }I remember that while looking at the compiler options for "tcc" there }was one which claimed to produce "standard stack frames". I don't have }any debugger (and I get along quite fine without it - when I come to }very convoluted code I use 'dbx' on the VAX !). I was lloking at the }Turbo C manual and the option is ' -Y' and it says there that "it }generates a standard stack frame which is useful when using a debugger }to trace back ..." [...] }-- }Amit Joshi BITNET | Q3696@PUCC.BITNET } USENET | {seismo, rutgers}\!princeton\!phoenix\!asjoshi The option is '-k', and what it does is cause the compiler always to emit code to set up a stack frame, even when one is not needed (because there are no parameters and no local vars). It does not, as another poster suggested, change the order in which things are placed on the stack. -- {harvard,uunet,ucbvax}!b.gp.cs.cmu.edu!ralf -=-=- AT&T: (412)268-3053 (school) ARPA: RALF@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU |"Tolerance means excusing the mistakes others make. FIDO: Ralf Brown at 129/31 | Tact means not noticing them." --Arthur Schnitzler BITnet: RALF%B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU@CMUCCVMA -=-=- DISCLAIMER? I claimed something?
mr@homxb.UUCP (mark) (02/19/88)
In article <2563@gryphon.CTS.COM>, greg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Greg Laskin) writes: > In article <1515@homxb.UUCP> mr@homxb.UUCP (mark) writes: > >GODDAM !!! I also had quick C blow away my drive. It wrote > >all over the FAT table. The program was as simple as you can > >get : > > > > fp = fopen(.. some file ..) > > fclose(fp); > > Yes, that's old news. Some versions of Western Digital XT Hard Disk > controller software use a software interrupt that conflicts with > software interrupt usage by QC. Certainly, the folks at Microsoft > chose the software interrupt they used just to spite you. > > Of course, others might say that QC works just fine but your disk > controller is brain damaged and wiped out your disk. > > In any case, it has nothing to do with the program, simple or otherwise. Then why does microsoft advertise that the program is compatible with my PC (AT&T PC6300). My machine has the standard disk and controller that is sold with all HD versions of the AT&T PC6300. Question : Is there another interrupt available for codeview ? mark homxb!mr
igp@camcon.uucp (Ian Phillipps) (02/19/88)
From article <389@lscvax.UUCP>, by ram@lscvax.UUCP (Ric Messier): > I've finally talked myself into picking up a C compiler and thought I > had even decided on which one to get. The price was just right and so [...] > > I can pick up both Microsoft's Quick C and Borland's Turbo C for $53/ea but > I am not sure which is the better compiler. I have asked everyone I know > but ... I've used Turbo 1.0 and MSC 4.0. The latter got squeezed off my disk a while back. The Turbo editor is limited as an editor, but does have remap - you could tart it up if need be with a keyboard remap program. > inline assembler code to DOS and BIOS interrupt calls within the code, Yes - the compiler will generate IN OUT INT and you have direct register access, if you like that sort of thing. > > Anyway, to the point. I want to know what kind of package each of them > is, what kind of graphics capabilities, support of the Kernighan/Ritchie Both go WAY beyond K & R. I think Borland is a bit ahead of MS on some things; as I haven't read the draft ANSI standard, I dont know if declarations like main( int argc, char **argv ) { /* hello world */ } are in it - Borland takes them, MSC doesn't. MSC 5.0 "totally compatible with Quick C" barfs on #pragma - guess how I found that out! There are irritating differences with the header files (memory.h vs mem.h) but not much serious unless you use the Turbo extensions in non-macro form. (If you use inp or outp, Turbo will do them in-line via macros). > release of Turbo C. I am kind of partial to pulldown menus which are > included in the Quick C package and I don't particularly enjoy going to > the Turbo editor sometimes, though I realize that I can change the > commands to whatever suits me, there are just some things I want to do > that it can't. If you like pull down menus, youll LOVE Turbo C. There are lots of graphics in Turbo V 1.5 - I haven't got that yet. ... all views purely personal ... -- UUCP: ...!ukc!camcon!igp | Cambridge Consultants Ltd | Ian Phillipps or: igp@camcon.uucp | Science Park, Milton Road |----------------- Phone: +44 223 358855 | Cambridge CB4 4DW, England |
pwtotten@orchid.waterloo.edu (Paul Totten) (02/24/88)
In article <1546@homxb.UUCP> mr@homxb.UUCP (mark) writes: > >Then why does microsoft advertise that the program is compatible with >my PC (AT&T PC6300). My machine has the standard disk and controller that >is sold with all HD versions of the AT&T PC6300. > If that's what uSoft advertised, then they didn't lie. It is compatible with your PC....... They didn't say anything about it being compatible with your HD controller. +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Paul W Totten It's OK... | | pwtotten@orchid I'm with THE band! | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Disclaimer = "I'm only a student...of course these are only my own opinions"