jsm@laird.UUCP (Jeffrey McArthur) (02/29/88)
>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 88 10:25:59 PST >From: vortex!lauren@rand-unix.ARPA (Lauren Weinstein) >Subject: UUCP/Internet mail for DOS (UULINK) > >In response to a number of recent queries in this forum, a number of >persons have suggested that we post some brief information about our >UULINK product for IBM PC/XT/AT's and compatibles running MS-DOS/PC-DOS. >UULINK provides for comprehensive UUCP ascii and binary file transfers, >including full-speed multiple packet, full duplex operations. It both >sends and receives UUCP-style ("!") and Internet-style ("@") mail (single >hop, multiple hop, and pass-through) and includes the ability to send and >receive Usenet "netnews" articles. It includes aliases, distribution >(mailing) lists, a "cron" mechanism for scheduling executions at various >dates/times, and can operate fully unattended for both outgoing and >incoming calls, etc. The UULINK mail sending and reading programs include >facilities for sorting messages into different folders, replies, mail >forwarding, and a wide variety of other mail handling features. > >If anyone interested in more details would send us their U.S. mail address >or give us a call, we'll be happy to send them more detailed information. >Thanks much. > >--Lauren-- >{clyde, decvax, sun, ihnp4, ...}!vortex!lauren >Vortex Technology -- (213) 390-3920 > >--Disclaimer: Of course I'm biased. I WROTE UULINK! > I have been using UULINK from almost the very first. It works. However, there are some REAL PROBLEMS WITH IT!!!!! First off, I have NEVER received ANY documentation. Lauren kept saying, "some other people are writing it and they are just slow". I finally gave up asking for documentation after a year of asking. So until the documentation gets done you are stuck with making long distance calls to Lauren and asking him how to configure your system. Now as for newsgroups. The support for them is there, just bairly. You get them as one huge unsorted file. If you complain, he might send you one of the programs that were posted to unbatch them for you. I just wrote my own. Also UULINK does not support any form of compressed mail. I have tried and it appears that UULINK corrupts the files by playing with carriage-returns and linefeeds. So if ALL you want is mail, then it is ok, but if you want newsgroups it is not very good. When I first got UULINK I bitterly complained about the lack of news support. Lauren seemed to feal, "why do you want to get news? Mail is all anyone needs." Also Lauren forgot to mention the price: $335. Quite high for a package with ONE floppy and no documentation. IF Lauren ever gets the documentation done, cuts the price in half, and adds news support, then and only then would I recommend buying it. Other wise, try out one of the PD uucp clones. It may not work; but at least you get more documentation and the sources (1 line of documentation is better than NONE!). Lauren, since you wrote UULINK, why the hell don't YOU DOCUMENT IT? Jeffrey McArthur, Laird Telemedia Inc. 2424 S. 2570 W. Salt Lake City, Utah 84119 (801) 972-5900 {ihnp4,decvax,seismo!ut-sally}!utah-cs!utah-gr!uplherc!sp7040!laird!jsm Gateway BBS (801) 562-1587 running STadel 3.1g 300/1200/2400/19200 (Telebit Trailblazer) 24 hours 106 Meg
todd@uhccux.UUCP (The Perplexed Wiz) (03/03/88)
In article <14.UUL1.1#125@laird.UUCP> jsm@laird.UUCP (Jeffrey McArthur) writes: > >I have been using UULINK from almost the very first. It works. However, >there are some REAL PROBLEMS WITH IT!!!!! > >First off, I have NEVER received ANY documentation. Lauren kept saying, >"some other people are writing it and they are just slow". I finally >gave up asking for documentation after a year of asking. Yes, I must admit..It was quite a shock to receive my package and no documentation. However, I just checked with Lauren a few days ago and he told me the documentation is finally finished and should be shipping sometime during the second week of March (this month). >So until the documentation gets done you are stuck with making long >distance calls to Lauren and asking him how to configure your system. That's true. Let's hope this all changes with the new documentation. >Also Lauren forgot to mention the price: $335. Quite high for a package >with ONE floppy and no documentation. Yes, I must admit that the price seems quite high. On the other hand, at the time I bought it, it saved me the countless hours it would have taken for me to write something similar from scratch. The other alternative was to buy a UNIX package with uucp. Since at the time that would have also meant replacing my underpowered IBM PC, that would have been even more expensive. BTW....Disclaimer....I have no relation to Vortex (Lauren's firm) except as a customer. I have gripes about UULINK too. But it does work for me. -- Todd Ogasawara, U. of Hawaii Faculty Development Program UUCP: {ihnp4,uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!todd ARPA: uhccux!todd@nosc.MIL BITNET: todd@uhccux INTERNET: todd@uhccux.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU
etk@philabs.Philips.Com (Ed Keegan) (03/03/88)
We (Philips Labs) have similar experiences with Lauren's package. While it does everything he says, the lack of documentation is our biggest complaint. In our case, we purchased UULINK for installation at a different division, one that is not particularly computer oriented. They have a System 36 (yes folks, that's IBM) and use PC's as terminals. Since they are located in the next town (a local call) and have wanted a "mail" link to us for quite some time, we felt that UULINK was an ideal product since they already had the hardware and very little training would be needed to get them up and running. We installed the product on one of our (really my AT) in-house systems (with Lauren's help) to insure that we could do a turn key installation at the other site. That was back in November and have been waiting for the documentation ever since. In good faith, I cannot deliver this package to the real end user without ANY documentation. So he calls me every month and every month I give him the same excuse, "we're waiting for the vendor to deliver the documentation". Lauren, if you're out there...PLEASE GET THE DOCUMENTATION OUT! Some additional thoughts, if UULINK had documentation and a real news facility I'd be willing to bet that even at $335 a lot of users would purchase a copy and UUNET would be swamped with new customers. One final note, if someone has a working copy of UUPC (sources, executables, AND documentation) I'd be very happy to provide a distribution facility for this product, to the point that I'll ship floppy's and cover the cost out of my pocket. -- Edward T. Keegan uunet!philabs!etk Telephone: (914) 945-6236 Philips Laboratories 345 Scarborough Rd Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510
pracuff@brl-smoke.ARPA (Phillip R. Acuff ) (03/07/88)
AMEN, I too purchased UULINK over a year ago, and have not heard a word from that turkey ( I believe Thief, because he promised documentation -- and from the price we paid and what we got , we got ripped off ). If it were not for a lot of previous experience using UUCP files, I never would have gotten it to work in the first place. In fact, Laurens comments at first were to read the UUCP documentation form AT&T and do the same. That sounds good, but his files are not exactly named the same, structured the same, nor in the same directories. Unless I receive proper documentation for this beast of a program, I'd say forget buying it.
root@uwspan.UUCP (John Plocher) (03/11/88)
| Some additional thoughts, if UULINK had documentation and a real news | facility I'd be willing to bet that even at $335 a lot of users would | purchase a copy and UUNET would be swamped with new customers. John Galvin, Garry Paxinos, and Tim Pozar have written a set of programs which tie into Opus/Fido/SEAdog/TBBS BBSs and allow FULL bidirectional mail and news comunication to a Unix host. The UFGATE package allows mail and news TO the pc, FROM the pc and THROUGH the pc to either another Unix or Fido system (or both!) The package integrates with the BBS system and allows the users of the BBS to participate in the Usenet AND Fidonet worlds. Email to John Galvin: galvin@circle.uucp -or- ...!uwvax!geowhiz!uwspan!circle!galvin Ma Bell (voice): (608) 249-0150 evenings CST 1st circle Fido BBS: (608) 249-0275 24hr, 1200 baud -John -- Comp.Unix.Microport is now unmoderated! Use at your own risk :-)
jsm@laird.UUCP (Jeffrey McArthur) (03/11/88)
I FINALLY received my documentation for UULINK. After almost 2 years of
using it, I find that I really did not know how most of it worked. I had
a whole set of batch files to make life easier. Now I find that the vast
majority of them were not needed. All I needed was the right command line
options to do what I wanted.
Thanks Lauren. The documentation REALLY helps. The only thing I wonder
about is would I have got the documentation if I had not flamed your
product? The timing seems just too coincidental to me. Did you send
all your users documentation or just the ones that complained?
The documentation is a 118 page "perfect bound" book. Along with 4 pages
of errata. The documentation explains things like the difference between
the -s and the -S option for uu.exe. I previously had a batch file to
do what -S does because I didn't know that it existed.
I still think that $335 is a bit high for the package. But I feal a lot
better about it now that I FINALLY got some documentation.
I never knew that it would automatically append your signature file.
In the phone converstions with Lauren that never came up. I am glad that
it does that. Makes life a lot easier.
However, I would be very, very hesitant before ever buying another
product from Vortex Technology again. Before I do, I would ask for
a copy of the documentation FIRST. Then after I have that in hand, I
would see if the product did what I needed.
Jeffrey McArthur, Laird Telemedia Inc.
2424 S. 2570 W.
Salt Lake City, Utah 84119
(801) 972-5900
{ihnp4,decvax,seismo!ut-sally}!utah-cs!utah-gr!uplherc!sp7040!laird!jsm
Gateway BBS
(801) 562-1587
running STadel 3.1g
300/1200/2400/19200 (Telebit Trailblazer)
24 hours
106 Megclements@bbn.com (Bob Clements) (03/16/88)
In article <15.UUL1.1#125@laird.UUCP> jsm@laird.UUCP (Jeffrey McArthur) writes: > >I FINALLY received my documentation for UULINK. > ... >The only thing I wonder >about is would I have got the documentation if I had not flamed your >product? The timing seems just too coincidental to me. Did you send >all your users documentation or just the ones that complained? Well, I for one have not received it. I also did not flame on the net, though I have been sorely tempted. Mainly about the "telephone support". Example: Me: Lauren! There's a bug in the expect-send logic. It gets out of sync. L: Well, I've rewritten that whole section of code. Me: Can I get an update, please? L: No. You don't need it. or Me: Lauren! I need longer timeouts. The system I call is a massively overloaded microvax. L: You don't need it. Me: But I can't get through the login sequence! L: You don't need it. etc., etc... >I still think that $335 is a bit high for the package. Me, too. >However, I would be very, very hesitant before ever buying another >product from Vortex Technology again. Me, too. >Jeffrey McArthur, Laird Telemedia Inc. >{ihnp4,decvax,seismo!ut-sally}!utah-cs!utah-gr!uplherc!sp7040!laird!jsm Bob Clements clements@bbn.com
berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu (03/18/88)
I can't comment on the quality of the software - but Lauren sent me
details of what he went through to write the package in the first
place - the $ 335 sounds like a bargain. You know it's not going
to have as big an audience as Flight Simulator. He has to recover
his time investment somehow.
Mike Berger
Department of Statistics
Science, Technology, and Society
University of Illinois
berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu
{ihnp4 | convex | pur-ee}!uiucuxc!clio!bergerbruceb@telesoft.UUCP (Bruce Bergman @spot) (03/21/88)
In article <16800239@clio>, berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu writes: > > I can't comment on the quality of the software - but Lauren sent me > details of what he went through to write the package in the first > place - the $ 335 sounds like a bargain. You know it's not going > to have as big an audience as Flight Simulator. He has to recover > his time investment somehow. > > Mike Berger > berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu > {ihnp4 | convex | pur-ee}!uiucuxc!clio!berger Well, I was going to keep out of this UULINK debate, mainly because I hesitate to flame when others are doing it well. However, when I saw what Mike was told by Lauren, I just had to speak up. Lauren is a master manipulator. He can make you believe anything he would like if you're gullible enough. I know because I once spent a large number of hours on the phone with him when his product wasn't even a product. We discussed the implications of getting uucp to work on a PC and went over pretty much everything that had to be done. Mind you, this wasn't a passing "sales" conversation. This went on over a period of several phone calls, all at my expense (he'd never return my long distance calls, but that's no big deal), and often many hours each. Having given up on his "promised" help, I decided to investigate the uucp connections from my own point of reference. As I just getting to understand the 'g' protocol, UUCLONE showed up and there was no reason for me to go further with my project, so I abandoned ship and used the public packages. In any case, as two public domain packages have shown, getting uucp to work on a micro isn't all that tough. Lauren thinks he ought to be getting a mint for his years of hard work, when I think he simply is pissed off that other folks got a public domain version working while his was still selling. Don't get me wrong; he deserves to be paid for what he produces, but if he's going to charge what he does for what little his package does (and I'm not even considering the lack of documentation), then I think anyone is nuts to consider it at this time. An inflated ego is no reason to charge an inflated price... Anyhow, enough said from me. Mind you, these are entirely MY opinions and no else is responsible for them. bruce bergman -- allegra!\ TeleSoft, Inc. ihnp4! \ crash!--\ (619) 457-2700 x123 nosc! \ \ >--ucsd!---->--telesoft!bruceb (Bruce Bergman N7HAW) scgvaxd! / / ucbvax! / log-hb!--/ 5959 Cornerstone Court West uunet! / San Diego, CA. 92121-9891 Any opinions are my own. Make Wildfire a Thing of the Past.
louis@auvax.UUCP (Louis Schmittroth) (03/21/88)
In article <230@telesoft.UUCP>, bruceb@telesoft.UUCP (Bruce Bergman @spot) writes: > uucp connections from my own point of reference. As I just getting > to understand the 'g' protocol, UUCLONE showed up and there was no > reason for me to go further with my project, so I abandoned ship and > used the public packages. > Where could I get a copy of UUCLONE? Is source available? -- Louis Schmittroth My employer has no opinions. Computer Science Athabasca University ...{ubc-vision, ihnp4}!alberta!auvax!louis
berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu (03/23/88)
I have to admit that my conversations with him were over a year ago,
and I've seen two public distribution versions since then. I'm not
sure, however, that they have the same degree of functionality. In
any case, I'd expect the competition to either drive his price down,
or move his product out of the market altogether.
Mike Berger
Department of Statistics
Science, Technology, and Society
University of Illinois
berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu
{ihnp4 | convex | pur-ee}!uiucuxc!clio!berger