iverson@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tim Iverson) (04/21/88)
After reading the docs on ZCOMM, I thought that it looked liked a very promising program - not so. Most of the time it doesn't even run (immediate hang on startup). The times it does run, it hangs as soon as I try to connect (hang=time to *cold* boot). Has anyone got this to run on your TRUE BLUE AT? It sure doesn't work on mine. For those of you who are wondering, yes my COM ports are configured correctly, and there were no TSR's or other resident handlers installed. Now, about the "documentation": whoever wrote this seems to have a very large chip on his shoulder - the tone is defensive in the extreme and the poor organization just about renders the entire 150k manual useless. The first four chapters are spent bragging about what a great product this is and why you should register it. The rest is basically a scattershot description of minute details of various commands. Why I would spend $40 for a typeset copy of this tripe I can't fathom. Enough zcomm bashing (what should I expect from shareware, right :-). However, judging from the other programs Chuck has posted, I was considerably surprised at the lack of functionality of the program. Since Chuck didn't post it himself, I'm wondering if this isn't a pre-release or if some other mistake has been made. If not, well, it has just about assured that I will never buy any product from Omen Technology. - Tim Iverson iverson@cory.Berkeley.EDU ucbvax!cory!iverson
tim@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Timothy L. Kay) (04/22/88)
Tim Iverson writes: >After reading the docs on ZCOMM, I thought that it looked liked a very >promising program - not so. Most of the time it doesn't even run (immediate >hang on startup). The times it does run, it hangs as soon as I try to >connect (hang=time to *cold* boot). Has anyone got this to run on your TRUE >BLUE AT? It sure doesn't work on mine. For those of you who are wondering, >yes my COM ports are configured correctly, and there were no TSR's or other >resident handlers installed. I am surprised to hear this. I pulled ZCOMM off SIMTEL20 about two weeks ago. I managed to get it working with absolutely no trouble on a true blue IBM XT with a PCSG Breakthru/286 card. I then got it running on my AT 10Mhz/0 clone. Not only has it been *no* trouble, but it even suggested that I change the way my modem is configured. I have never had a terminal package that was able to suggest that my modem was misconfigured. After using Kermit all these years, it is a delite to use zmodem protocols to do the transfers. It is fast and *very* reliable. I immediately sent my $50 ($40 for registration + $10 for a nice binder) because I see this program as solving many of my problems. It is possible that you can't get it to work because your 8250 serial port chip is defective? It has happened before. >Now, about the "documentation": whoever wrote this seems to have a very >large chip on his shoulder - the tone is defensive in the extreme and the >poor organization just about renders the entire 150k manual useless. The >first four chapters are spent bragging about what a great product this is >and why you should register it. The rest is basically a scattershot >description of minute details of various commands. Why I would spend $40 >for a typeset copy of this tripe I can't fathom. While the manual does lack in organization, I don't get the same impression about the defensive tone. And you aren't paying $40 for the nice, typeset manual; you are paying $40 for registration. The nice, typeset manual comes as a bonus. > [...] It is too bad that you had bad experiences. I find the package delightful. I plan to continue using it to the exclusion of all other terminal packages. I should mention that I have absolutely no affiliation with Omen Technology other than that of a satisfied customer. Tim
grandi@noao.arizona.edu (Steve Grandi) (04/22/88)
In article <2598@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> iverson@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Tim Iverson) writes: > >After reading the docs on ZCOMM, I thought that it looked liked a very >promising program - not so. I have a different opinion. I find ZCOMM (and its little brother DSZ) a very useful program. I use it regularly on an XT clone and I occasionally use it on a laptop. The VT100 emulation is excellent, but this portion of the program is definitely not very "pleasant." However, the file transfer capabilities are (in my opinion) unsurpassed by any other program. ZCOMM makes very good use of the available hardware (I've tested my Unix Xmodem/Ymodem program against some emulators that are absolute DOGS in file transfer performance). Finally, the program is actively supported and I regularly download a new version from simtel-20 every month or so. The learning curve is STEEP (but I prefer a useful command driven program to an unwieldly menu system any day). I agree that the manual is quite opaque and not very useful; the big advantage of registration is not a typeset manual but the quick reference card! There are huge portions of the program (the script language and "Turbolearn") that I have completely ignored due to a lack of need and their seeming complexity. The quick update cycle leads to feeping creatureism (if you wait too long to update, the "recent changes" document doesn't go back enough versions!). Furthermore, my prejudice towards small, quick loading, executables is mightly offended by the program's size. In any event, when I take our communal laptop on a trip, my floppy features zcomm. In other environments, I might recommend using a more "pleasant" terminal emulator and DSZ for file transfer (DSZ contains the superb file transfer portions of ZCOMM). For example, we have a site license for the DCS EM4010 program and rather than use the wimpy file transfer module embedded in EM4010, I hot-key back to DOS and fire up DSZ. -- Steve Grandi, National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson AZ, 602-325-9228 UUCP: {arizona,decvax,ncar,ihnp4}!noao!grandi or uunet!noao.arizona.edu!grandi Internet: grandi@noao.arizona.edu SPAN/HEPNET: 5356::GRANDI or DRACO::GRANDI
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (04/22/88)
In article <2598@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> iverson@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Tim Iverson) writes: | | After reading the docs on ZCOMM, I thought that it looked liked a very | promising program - not so. Most of the time it doesn't even run (immediate | hang on startup). The times it does run, it hangs as soon as I try to | connect (hang=time to *cold* boot). Has anyone got this to run on your TRUE | BLUE AT? It sure doesn't work on mine. For those of you who are wondering, Works on an XT and AT, at least three brands of clones, a 386 clone, and seems to work on a PS/2 (at least it the user hasn't complained). | [...] | Now, about the "documentation": whoever wrote this seems to have a very | large chip on his shoulder - the tone is defensive in the extreme and the | poor organization just about renders the entire 150k manual useless. The The organization is very bad, I agree, but the data is there, and in painstaking detail. The program is so complex I doubt that you are ever going to get all the detail into one of those six page flyers that pass for documentation these days. | [...] | Enough zcomm bashing (what should I expect from shareware, right :-). | However, judging from the other programs Chuck has posted, I was considerably | surprised at the lack of functionality of the program. Since Chuck didn't | post it himself, I'm wondering if this isn't a pre-release or if some other | mistake has been made. If not, well, it has just about assured that I will | never buy any product from Omen Technology. I doubt that Chuck will care, as long as you don't use it without paying for it. I admit that I decided zcomm was too much trouble for what I wanted, but I would consider using it if I needed to present a friendly menu to a user who objected to typing in baud rates, etc, and phone numbers, and login sequences... ie. the person who uses a computer because s/he must, and gets no joy from it. I get the impression that this is another "I can't make it work so the software is bad" postings, but perhaps you got a bad copy or something. I feel that zcomm is a fine product for a technical person to configure, and a lazy person (aren't we all) to use. It saves a lot of time and seems reliable on all of the machines on which I tried it. I didn't continue to use it for personal preference, not because of technical problems. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
ritzenth@bgsuvax.UUCP (Phil Ritzenthaler) (04/23/88)
In article <6216@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>, tim@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Timothy L. Kay) writes: > > While the manual does lack in organization, I don't get the same > impression about the defensive tone. And you aren't paying $40 for > the nice, typeset manual; you are paying $40 for registration. The > nice, typeset manual comes as a bonus. I admit ZModem is a fantastic protocol when it comes to transfering of data; nothing can beat it. BUT . . . I did feel that there was a point made here. Zcomm's vt100 emulation in the 80 column mode is near flawless, but the 132 mode . . . well . . . Also, I also felt that the author was very defensive about his product. He speaks about other "arcade style" communication programs. I am a beta tester for Qmodem (no, this is NOT going to be an advertisement) which probably in his sense IS an "arcade game". BUT, at the same time, it is MUCH MORE user friendly and has the ability to use external upload/download such as DSZ.COM (or any others you can think of). The ease of use is it's plus, though. If I am a first time user, I don't want all of the hassle of trying to learn a VERY user UNFRIENDLY program. I want to get up, get going, and have some fun telecommunicating. That's not saying that Qmodem is perfect, though. It, like many other products (like the documented 206 presentation manager bugs), has it's fault. But I suppose it's what you get used to. -- Phil Ritzenthaler UUCP :.!cbosgd!osu-cis!bgsuvax!ritzenth ARPA : ritzenth@andy.bgsu.edu "Remember, OPRAH spelled backwards is HARPO (toot-toot)!" -- Anonymous
pjh@mccc.UUCP (Peter J. Holsberg) (04/23/88)
In article <2598@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> iverson@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Tim Iverson) writes:
==
== After reading the docs on ZCOMM, I thought that it looked liked a very
== promising program - not so.
You haven't given it a chance. Chuck's software is "UNIX-oriented".
I.e., the user must already be an expert to use it. However, it is
really a suberb program. It's not "user-friendly" like ProComm, etc.
== Now, about the "documentation": whoever wrote this seems to have a very
== large chip on his shoulder - the tone is defensive in the extreme and the
== poor organization just about renders the entire 150k manual useless. The
== first four chapters are spent bragging about what a great product this is
== and why you should register it. The rest is basically a scattershot
== description of minute details of various commands. Why I would spend $40
== for a typeset copy of this tripe I can't fathom.
==
Again, it's UNIX-like documentation. I purchased ZCOMM's big brother,
YAM, and have barely learned how to use it. It does what I want but I'm
sure that I don;t use more than 1-2% of its capabilities. No question,
it needs a detailed tutorial.
== ... I will never buy any product from Omen Technology.
Well, that'll mean that you will be missing something pretty fine. As I
said, Chuck's stuff tends to be for experts, so perhaps the rest of the
world should indeed avoid it.root@mjbtn.UUCP (Mark J. Bailey) (04/23/88)
My understanding of ZCOMM and its status is that it is a share-ware cousin
to ProYamm (a commercial package). I have had ZCOMM (although I haven't
yet checked the version of this one against my current copy) for some time
now. I got my first copy from CompuServe's Unix Forum. I have pretty much
liked it. I MUST say that it is a MONSTER in that you have to set everything
up yourself, unlike PROCOMM which takes you by the hand. It is a lot like
UNIX (concept-wise). Its "uncoothness" may just be its saving grace. I used
the original PHODIR.T until I downloaded one from GENIE that someone else
had setup. When I plugged it in, WOW, it was like I had a new program.
It is not a pre-release. This is the intended package. I haven't really
dug into it for lack of time. I like its protocol mechanisms. I find that
they out-perform any other program I use. There again though, it IS shareware,
and you must say, that Chuck put a lot of effort into it, readily functional
or not, and he should get credit for that if nothing else. I does what I
want it to and I am happy.
Mark.
--
Mark J. Bailey _____________________________________________________
_________________\ _____|
> @ Nashville Knoxville _/
/ + ____''
> Jackson + <*> MURFREESBORO _/
/ "From the Heart of Middle Tennessee!" ___>
> + Memphis Chattanooga _<
<______________________________________________+_______/ JobSoft
UUCP: ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,mit-eddie}!killer!mjbtn!root Design & Development Co
FIDO: Mark Bailey at Net/Node 1:116/12 Murfreesboro, TN USAjpn@teddy.UUCP (John P. Nelson) (04/25/88)
>I admit that I decided zcomm was too much trouble for >what I wanted, but I would consider using it if I needed to present a >friendly menu to a user who objected to typing in baud rates, etc, and >phone numbers, and login sequences... ie. the person who uses a computer >because s/he must, and gets no joy from it. Huh? This exactly the kind of person I would steer AWAY from zcomm! There are more "user friendly" programs available. No, my reason for using Zcomm (just sent in my registration fee) is that it is NOT user friendly. Unfortunately, "user friendly" is usually just another way of saying "expert hostile". Up till now, I have used 3 different communications programs, depending on what I was doing. One had a good terminal (vt100) emulator, another had a good script language, and the third had good file transfer capability. All the programs I've seen excel in one of the three areas, and fall down in the other two. ZCOMM does all three well, but requires that I learn a funny programming language to take full advantage of it. I'm not scared of new programming languages: I rather enjoy learning new ones. By the way: was I the only one who noticed that the ZCOMM documentation that was distributed on comp.binaries.ibm.pc was incomplete? After extracting the (five?) sections from the .ARC file, concatinating them together, and printing them, I noticed that the manual ended in the middle of Chapter 20! The last section ended in the middle of a sentence! Not only that, various parts of the manual refer to chapters above 20 (In particular, I'd love to look at Chapter 24!) -- john nelson UUCP: {decvax,mit-eddie}!genrad!teddy!jpn ARPA (sort of): talcott.harvard.edu!panda!teddy!jpn
caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) (04/27/88)
In article <1958@bgsuvax.UUCP> ritzenth@bgsuvax.UUCP (Phil Ritzenthaler) writes:
:I did feel that there was a point made here. Zcomm's vt100 emulation in the
:80 column mode is near flawless, but the 132 mode . . . well . . .
The 132 column emulation requires a display adapter whose BIOS
supports 132 columns, such as ATI EGA Wonder, Everex EVGA,
Genoa Super EGA, (these I have used) as well as Tseng and
others. With a suitable display, ZCOMM does well on vttest.
Apparently many received only two thirds of the manual
because of truncation in the net distribution. Since I
don't get the comp.binaries newsgroups I can't say how much
of the manual was missing. The table of contents and cross
reference index come last, about 230 pages in all.
An important adjunct to the manual is the help processor and
database contained in ZCOMMHLP.ARC. I don't know if this went
out over the net.
The help database is tree structured along functional lines,
while the manual is more of a reference resource. Wthout the
help processor and database, the manual is a bit of a learning
curve.johnm@trsvax.UUCP (04/30/88)
Nope you're not the only one who noticed that the manual is truncated. Could somebody rectify this problem? Oh, and BTW does anybody have a different phodir.t file that we could try out to see if it might work a little better?