wilk@svax.cs.cornell.edu (Michael Wilk) (04/27/88)
The "Public (software) Library" is a company that distributes shareware and public domain software for only a few dollars per disk. In their latest catalog I saw my shareware program listed, but they never contacted me for my permission to do so. Their description of my program was inadequate, written by someone who knew little about it. While I encourage the distribution of the program I feel a little resentful, especially because their catalog assures one that the programs are included only with the authors' permission. Does anyone know if what the company did is legal? My program has the correct copyright notice on the opening screen. (I'll add that The PC Arcade did contact me before including the program, asked me if I would like to write the description, and even offered to send me a disk of my choice from their catalog! Bravo!)
wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) (04/29/88)
In article <16428@cornell.UUCP> wilk@svax.cs.cornell.edu (Michael Wilk) writes: > >The "Public (software) Library" is a company that distributes shareware and >public domain software for only a few dollars per disk. In their latest >catalog I saw my shareware program listed, but they never contacted me for >my permission to do so. Their description of my program was inadequate, >written by someone who knew little about it. >While I encourage the distribution of the program I feel a little resentful, >especially because their catalog assures one that the programs are included >only with the authors' permission. Does anyone know if what the company >did is legal? My program has the correct copyright notice on the opening >screen. If they only charge a few dollars per disk, they could well argue that they charge strictly for copying and the cost of the disk, not your program; thus they are not distributing your program or any other program for profit. If you designate your program as "Shareware", it probably has a notice in it somewhere encouraging people to pass on copies -- otherwise the shareware idea does not work. This constitutes permission for anyone to distribute it. Unless you have a specific disclaimer prohibiting distribution by companies or clubs you can probably not prevent groups like this from distributing it. -- Wolf N. Paul * 3387 Sam Rayburn Run * Carrollton TX 75007 * (214) 306-9101 UUCP: ihnp4!killer!dcs!wnp ESL: 62832882 INTERNET: wnp@DESEES.DAS.NET or wnp@dcs.UUCP TLX: 910-280-0585 EES PLANO UD
mintz@hpindda.HP.COM (Ken Mintz) (04/29/88)
> ... their catalog assures one that the programs are included > only with the authors' permission. Does anyone know if what the company > did is legal? My program has the correct copyright notice on the opening > screen. What exactly does your copyright notice say? Is your program widely available on BBSs? Ken Mintz
cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (04/29/88)
> > The "Public (software) Library" is a company that distributes shareware and > public domain software for only a few dollars per disk. In their latest > catalog I saw my shareware program listed, but they never contacted me for > my permission to do so. Their description of my program was inadequate, > written by someone who knew little about it. > > While I encourage the distribution of the program I feel a little resentful, > especially because their catalog assures one that the programs are included > only with the authors' permission. Does anyone know if what the company > did is legal? My program has the correct copyright notice on the opening > screen. > > (I'll add that The PC Arcade did contact me before including the program, > asked me if I would like to write the description, and even offered to send > me a disk of my choice from their catalog! Bravo!) I would be curious to hear how you go about forcing a company to pay royalties on programs. We have a contract, I've talked to the president of Software Express on the phone, and he's told me that they owe me several hundred dollars in royalties, but now he doesn't return my calls, I've received no check, and my letters are being unanswered. Clayton E. Cramer
japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) (04/30/88)
In article <16428@cornell.UUCP>, wilk@svax.cs.cornell.edu (Michael Wilk) writes: > > The "Public (software) Library" is a company that distributes shareware and > public domain software for only a few dollars per disk. In their latest > catalog I saw my shareware program listed, but they never contacted me for > my permission to do so. Their description of my program was inadequate, > written by someone who knew little about it. > > While I encourage the distribution of the program I feel a little resentful, > especially because their catalog assures one that the programs are included > only with the authors' permission. Does anyone know if what the company > did is legal? My program has the correct copyright notice on the opening > screen. Years ago our Color Computer Users Group was contacted by a gentleman from NY requesting to join our club to obtain copies of our library... most of which were my own utilties! Three months after sending the disks an ad appeared in several Coco specific magazines advertising their new Coco library... I ordered a set to find they were MY OWN DISKS complete with my clubs logo and menu program... I then called the company and asked to speak to the same gentleman and found out he was their president... At the time I requested that they refrain from selling our disks and I have also asked them on at least 3 occasions at Denver computer shows to refrain from selling our disks and my software and they refuse! I am still highly purturbed that they used deception to buy a library from us at $2.00 a disk and then sell the same disks for $8!!! They have even had the nerve to come to Computer shows in Denver and sell our disks!!! Joe Applegate - Colorado School of Mines Computing Center {seismo, hplabs}!hao!isis!csm9a!japplega or SYSOP @ M.O.M. AI BBS - (303) 273-3989 - 300/1200/2400 8-N-1 24 hrs. *** UNIX is a philosophy, not an operating system *** *** BUT it is a registered trademark of AT&T, so get off my back ***
mintz@hpindda.HP.COM (Ken Mintz) (04/30/88)
> I would be curious to hear how you go about forcing a company to pay > royalties on programs. We have a contract, I've talked to the president > of Software Express on the phone, and he's told me that they owe me > several hundred dollars in royalties, but now he doesn't return my > calls, I've received no check, and my letters are being unanswered. The short answer is: file a small claims action or contact a lawyer. Sometimes just a letter from an attorney puts the fear of God into people. But that's not a guarantee. Even if you win your suit, that only results in the court ("mother") ordering the defendant to pay. If they fail to comply, you have to petition the court for a lien -- which the court might deny. But that would only result in a bench warrant. Then you have to inveigle the sherrif's office to execute the warrant -- sometimes they're too busy catching criminals. And the lien only freezes assets until the company finally does pay or a time period elapses, at which point you have to ask the sherrif's office (again) to auction the assets or get the bank to turn over the funds. Quite a hassle: it's a "business decision" to determine whether or not it's worth the risk of spending all this time/money for no gain. Really, you have to hope that a threatening letter from a lawyer will do the trick. Caveat: don't let this situation drag on too long. If the company is evasive and they have no overt dispute, you might suspect that the company is having financial difficulties. (I know nothing about SW Express.) If that's the case, there will be other creditors competing for payment. Ken Mintz
cbunjiov@deimos.ads.com (Charleen Bunjiovianna) (05/01/88)
In article <16428@cornell.UUCP> wilk@svax.cs.cornell.edu (Michael Wilk) writes:
->
->The "Public (software) Library" is a company that distributes shareware and
->public domain software for only a few dollars per disk. In their latest
->catalog I saw my shareware program listed, but they never contacted me for
->my permission to do so. Their description of my program was inadequate,
->written by someone who knew little about it.
->While I encourage the distribution of the program I feel a little resentful,
->especially because their catalog assures one that the programs are included
->only with the authors' permission. Does anyone know if what the company
->did is legal? My program has the correct copyright notice on the opening
->screen.
I don't know if it's legal or not. I do know that in distributing the
free EGA shareware I offered on the net recently, I'm incurring costs
close to what we're talking about here: .75 for disk mailers from
Fry's, .25 for the disk, .50 for postage, so we're up to $1.50 already
without even considering the cost of using my computer to make copies.
Some requesting disks have graciously offered to reimburse me; the
other costs I'll absorb.
But I couldn't possibly run a business this way. If they're charging
"a few dollars per disk", the profit on your program could only be
pennies, at most. How much of a contribution are you asking for in
your shareware copyright notice? If they make a couple of cents off
each distribution of your program and 1 out of 10 customers send you
the shareware contribution, aren't you better off?
If their program description is inadequate, I'd provide them with a
better one. What have you got to lose?
/* Charleen Bunjiovianna | "To boldly go where angels fear to tread" */
/* Advanced Decision Systems | */
/* Mountain View, California | WORK HARDER...millions on welfare are */
/* | counting on you. */brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (05/01/88)
I think these places like PC-Sig and similars do provide value for the money they are paid. If you meant for your software to be freely distributed, and you want the best distribution, you will have to put up with them making a buck. They catalog the stuff, have people around to answer basic questions, publish books and magazines and allow easy ordering. Recently I wanted a variety of spreadsheet templates. I just called these places and had them send me up the disks they had. It cost money, but less than it would have to go to BBSs and clubs and track these things down. In fact, if more people on the net called up these services for programs, at anywhere from $3 to $6 per disk, it would be a lot cheaper than posting some stuff to the net. PSPICE is a good example. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
floyd@brl-smoke.ARPA (Floyd C. Wofford) (05/03/88)
The discussion so far has intrigued me. I am interested in responses from the creators of shareware to the following questions. Suppose I am a consultant to small businesses who wish to use small computers in their businesses. Now I want to make a profit from this. I also want to do these people an honest service. The people who come to me have no machine, usually, and really don't know where to start. I could tell them to pick up a Computer Shopper and spend two weeks digesting it but these people are not the "computer literates" who post endlessly to this newsgroup. Instead I listen to them and try to suggest solutions to their problems (at a profit to me). Lets say their problems require a spreadsheet. There is Lotus 123. This is excellent software at ~$200.00 a registered copy. A very good deal, too. If their problem does not require the full power of 123 perhaps an alternative may be useful. Two shareware alternatives come to mind immediately. Aseasyas and Analyticalc are two very nice shareware spreadsheets. I believe the author of the former requests $35.00. The latter is probably comparably priced. If I charge $5.00 (or even $8.00) for the diskette and the client registers the copy of the software, his cost is ~$150.00 less than 123 and he gets the solution to his problem. I could tell him to purchase a modem with communication software (perhaps Procomm or Kermit?) to download whatever he needs. He can purchase the magazines or waste a lot of time finding out how to access the bulletin board which contains the software, he can find a friend who has the software and will give him a copy or he can obtain it from some other means. He need not buy the copy from me. Now my questions are: Why do you feel that it is immoral for me to charge a small fee to advertise your product? If I do not change any of the code I am promoting the author's product with no assurance that I will be remunerated for my time by the author, assuming the program is registered, or that the program will be registered by the client, insuring that I will not be remunerated. Why should I take the risk for nothing? Many people who wish to use micro or personal computer do not read newsgroups like this, do not know where to begin (they say) looking for the correct hard/software for their needs or more likely do not wish to sort through all the chaff to find the wheat. I have given copies of shareware programs to friends with the hopes that they were helpful to them. I carefully explained the concept of shareware and that it is an alternative marketing form. If they liked and used the programs they should register them. If they did not they should pass them along. Should I write a program which I can market through shareware I would not mind someone making a little to get my product into the hands of the consumer of my product. If he makes more than I do, maybe I should try a different marketing technique (or raise my price ((watch the flames)) ). floyd@brl.arpa
caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) (05/06/88)
Most (not all) shareware authors allow their programs to be distributed for a reasonable media charge, provided the result is clearly labelled as shareware which should be registered. If you have doubts about a particular program, contact the author. For example, my shareware comms program ZCOMM is distributed by some of the "shareware library" organizations. The ones I am familiar with have always made clear the shareware status of the program. Life with DSZ is a bit more complicated because it *has* been ripped off (copyright violation), pirated, and hacked to pieces. I even get a few complaints because of problems caused by hacked copies. So, I insist that companies wishing to distribute DSZ with other products get written permission to do so, and that they agree to distribute DSZ.ARC exactly as publiched by me, and remind users that the copy of DSZ they receive this should be registered. Qmodem is an example of this arrangement. On the other hand, the last several versions of GT Power sold by P&M software (Paul Meiners) have ripped off a Copyrighted version of DSZ without any mention of DSZ being shareware and without paying any royalties for the use of the Copyrighted material. Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" 17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD Portland OR 97231 503-621-3406 TeleGodzilla BBS: 621-3746 CIS: 70007,2304 Genie: CAF
platt@swatsun.uucp (Steve Platt) (05/07/88)
In article <7812@brl-smoke.ARPA>, floyd@brl-smoke.ARPA (Floyd C. Wofford) writes: > > Suppose I am a consultant to small businesses who wish to use small > computers in their businesses. Now I want to make a profit from > this. I also want to do these people an honest service. The people > who come to me have no machine, usually, and really don't know where > to start. I could tell them to pick up a Computer Shopper and spend > two weeks digesting it but these people are not the "computer > literates" who post endlessly to this newsgroup. > What I sell is my expertese in producing a bundled, tested package. That includes: a) hardware, whatever it costs b) software, whatever it costs, for *registered* versions c) my time to assemble, produce documentation, training, etc. If you think package xxx is the "best for the money" and serves their needs, it is your responsibility to ensure that your customer will have manufacturer support, including phone service, upgrade and bug notification, etc., regardless of the distribution medium.