GTI@PSUVM.BITNET (Leon Geesey Jr) (04/23/88)
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a mouse, does anyone have any
preferences? Also will i have any troubles with compatibility
if I buy a Buss mouse?
thanx
Leonspectre@cisunx.UUCP (Robert L Sillett) (04/24/88)
I use a Microsoft Mouse and IBM PS/2 mouse at work and a Logitech mouse at home. Suffice it to say -- there's no place like home. There's no comparison whatsoever between the Logitech and Microsoft/IBM -- the Logitech wins hands down. In addition to having 3 buttons, versus 2 for the Microsoft, Logitech bundles a very powerful mouse menu generator and editor with the mouse. Microsoft's software is virtually non-existant by comparison and IBM ony gives you the mouse driver itself. As to the question of a bus mouse, if you have a free COMM port, you will have no problems at all. If not, you'll have to do some hacking, but it still should work unless your system is truly loaded. To summarize, I *** LOATHE *** the Microsoft Mouse. (I won't even honor IBM's by mentioning it in the same breath as Logitech.)
kevin@calvin.EE.CORNELL.EDU (Kevin Tubbs) (04/25/88)
In article <9001@cisunx.UUCP> spectre@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu.UUCP (Robert L Sillett) writes: >I use a Microsoft Mouse and IBM PS/2 mouse at work and a Logitech mouse... >Logitech wins hands down. Yes Robert, Logitech's mouse is a winner. It's fine hardware, and the software is top notch too. Not only does it come bundled with the driver, menu generator, and great full-screen editor, but for a few measly bucks extra you can get an excellent paint program (much better than Windows' or Gem's paint programs). The serial version is easy enough to install if you have a spare port, and the parallel version is easy too - it doesn't conflict with COM1 or COM2, but if you have too many parallel ports you may run out of interrupts. -- Kevin Tubbs, 5152 Upson, Cornell University, Ithaca NY, 14853 (607) 255-8703 kevin@calvin.ee.cornell.edu {uunet,rochester}!cornell!calvin!kevin "If you took all the CP/M users in the world, and laid them end- to-end at the equator, it would be a good thing."
mintz@hpindda.HP.COM (Ken Mintz) (04/26/88)
I'm interested in the same question/answers. Refer to "Pick of the Litter" in Byte, Jun 87, for an overview and a review of 5 mice. In choosing a mouse, I've come up with several criteria: (1) "inertia"; (2) RS232 v. bus interface (v. HPHIL); (3) 2-button v. 3-button; (4) mechanical v. optical; (5) resolution (100 v. 200 dpi); (6) "feel". Personally, I haven't found resolution to be an issue. "Feel" is too subjective to discuss. As with cameras, the position of the buttons, size/shape of the mouse, and position of the trackball (or simulation) is something you have to test-drive yourself. By "inertia", I mean the tendency for the mouse to stay put. For example, I've found that the MS Mouse has low inertia, while the PC Mouse has high inertia: when I "reach" for the button, the MS Mouse tends to move slightly, whereas the PC Mouse does not. This might be due to the lower resolution of the PC Mouse; but I suspect it's due to the felt pads. Moral: beware of too much smoothness in movement. The potential advantages of a bus mouse is: it does not use a COM port; and it can provide faster data transmission. (The Byte article notes that the latter is unimportant because of the low data entry rates.) However, it does require an extra interface card (= slot). HPHIL interface (for the HP Vectra) avoids the extra slot requirement; but I don't know of any non-HP mouse that supports this. My alternative would be RS232 because I don't currently have demand for COM ports. At the risk of starting a "religious" war, I find that I prefer a 2-button mouse, as do most IBM PC applications, so it appears. However, I'm inclined to get a 3-button mouse for the few applications that expect them (e.g., PC Paint?). Although they all work with 2Bs, they simulate the 3rd button by simulateous picks of both buttons. I'm leary of this type of interface, esp. for kids. (On the other hand, the extra button could be confusing for kids.) Originally, I preferred the optical mouse because of the lack of moving parts to be cluttered with dust. I didn't mind being limited to a small work surface: picking up the mouse at the pad's edges comes naturally to me. However, I'm now leaning toward a mechanical mouse because I think it might be easier for kids to use. BTW, the Logitech Mouse is an optomechanical mouse. While the Byte article touts this as combining the benefits of both flavors (viz., it doesn't require a special pad), I see it as combining the bad with the good (viz., the dust-sucking trackball). But I don't have any personal experience with the critter. Ken Mintz
mpatnode@polyslo.UUCP (Mike Patnode) (04/28/88)
In article <4330061@hpindda.HP.COM> mintz@hpindda.HP.COM (Ken Mintz) writes: >I'm interested in the same question/answers. Refer to "Pick of the Litter" >in Byte, Jun 87, for an overview and a review of 5 mice. .. moved .. >BTW, the Logitech Mouse is an optomechanical mouse. While the Byte article >touts this as combining the benefits of both flavors (viz., it doesn't >require a special pad), I see it as combining the bad with the good (viz., >the dust-sucking trackball). But I don't have any personal experience with >the critter. > I own a Logitech mouse and through working in a PC lab I am familiar with Microsoft's and PC Systems. The Logitech is by far the best under the following criteria: >In choosing a mouse, I've come up with several criteria: > (1) "inertia"; This can be controled on the fly with Logitech. By holding down the shift key and clicking either the left or right button to increase or decrease the amount of movement. > (2) RS232 v. bus interface (v. HPHIL); Comes in both styles. > (3) 2-button v. 3-button; The mouse is fully configurable and can emulate a number of different mouses including Microsorfs. > (4) mechanical v. optical; The mechanical-opticle combination gives the Logitech mouse incredibly accuart control and precision. > (5) resolution (100 v. 200 dpi); Opps, I don't know this one. > (6) "feel". The Logitech mouse rolls very smoothly but it is larger than the other mice which I like since I have big hands. The buttons click very clearly. The most impressive part about the Logitech mouse is the application manager call Click which comes with it. Lets say you run Ventura Publisher, Emacs and Word Perfect. Ventura expects a two button Microsoft Mouse, you have written a Menu driver for emacs, and you use the Word Perfect driver which comes with just about every mouse. Using Microsoft mouse you would have to have a batch file to install the menus for each program. The way Logitech's Click works is it watches DOS for commands specified in a configuration file. So when it sees you run Ventura Publisher it automatically changes to a 2 button mouse and it will adjust the baud rate accordingly (Serial only). When you run Word Perfect it automatically pulls up that menu. You can install any application you like and then configure the mouse to adjust for it evry time you use it. The paint program was nothing to write home about but it does import into Ventura and they also sell the mouse at a discount with a CAD package. Overall I don't think you will find anybody who is unhappy with the Logitech mouse. -- Mike "Dodger" Patnode | (n) ..csustan!polyslo!mpatnode Yitbos Innovations Inc. | (s) ..sdsu!polyslo!mpatnode 244 California Blvd | mpatnode@polyslo.UUCP San Luis Obispo, Ca 92630 | (805) 541-2048 / 543-9818 / 756-2516
igp@camcon.uucp (Ian Phillipps) (04/29/88)
From article <40159GTI@PSUVM>, by GTI@PSUVM.BITNET (Leon Geesey Jr): > I'm currently looking for a mouse, does anyone have any > preferences? Also will i have any troubles with compatibility > if I buy a Buss mouse? There's a big gotcha with uSoft bus mouse - if you have a monochrome pc monitor. Plug the monitor into the mouse socket by mistake (same connector!) and the monitor blows up. This happened to a colleague using an ITT Xtra PC; don't know if it happens to IBM kit - maybe someone out there would like to try it :-) PS - I prefer optical mice - smoother operation, since no slippage. PPS - our cat prefers live mice. -- UUCP: ...!ukc!camcon!igp | Cambridge Consultants Ltd | Ian Phillipps or: igp@camcon.uucp | Science Park, Milton Road |----------------- Phone: +44 223 358855 | Cambridge CB4 4DW, England |
johnson@c10sd1.StPaul.NCR.COM (Wayne D. T. Johnson) (04/30/88)
In article <40159GTI@PSUVM> GTI@PSUVM.BITNET (Leon Geesey Jr) writes: > I'm currently looking for a mouse, does anyone have any > preferences? Also will i have any troubles with compatibility > if I buy a Buss mouse? I just bought a serial mouse from "Computer Direct" for 39.95. MS compatible, opto-mecanical. Havn't got to use it yet but since it had a 15 day "home trial" I thought it would be worth the gamble. At 39.95 its a pretty good deal. Computer Direct's phone is (312) 382-5050. If anyone has had any experiance with this company or their mouse please drop a note. -- Wayne Johnson (voice) 612-638-7665 NCR Comten, Inc. (internet) W.Johnson@StPaul.NCR.COM or Roseville MN 55113 johnson@c10sd1.StPaul.NCR.COM The comments stated here do not reflect the policy of NCR Comten.
pechter@dasys1.UUCP (Bill Pechter) (04/30/88)
In article <4330061@hpindda.HP.COM> mintz@hpindda.HP.COM (Ken Mintz) writes: >I'm interested in the same question/answers. Refer to "Pick of the Litter" >in Byte, Jun 87, for an overview and a review of 5 mice. > >BTW, the Logitech Mouse is an optomechanical mouse. While the Byte article >touts this as combining the benefits of both flavors (viz., it doesn't >require a special pad), I see it as combining the bad with the good (viz., >the dust-sucking trackball). But I don't have any personal experience with >the critter. I've been using the Logitech Bus Mouse for a year now. It's reliable, smooth comfortable over long periods of use in editors, MS Windows and various graphics programs. I've got the three button variety and have NEVER had a use for the third button except in mouse script work written for the Logitech. The bus mouse seems to be the way to go if you want to avoid dedicating your serial port to the mouse. I've never had a dirt problem with it. I wish I had their new high res version which is supposed to be 300 dpi. -- Bill Pechter {sun!hoptoad,cmcl2!phri}!dasys1!pechter Lakewood Microsystems, 103 Governors Road, Lakewood NJ 08701 (201)370-0709 Evenings Big Electric Cat Public Access Unix, New York, NY
mintz@hpindda.HP.COM (Ken Mintz) (05/02/88)
> >BTW, the Logitech Mouse is an optomechanical mouse. ...I see it as > > combining the bad with the good (viz., the dust-sucking trackball). > > I've been using the Logitech Bus Mouse for a year now. It's reliable.... I hope it didn't sound like I was trying to knock Logitech. I was simply trying to make an uncommon (unpopular?) observation. > I've got the three button variety and have NEVER had a use for the third > button except in mouse script work written for the Logitech. That's my understanding, and the Byte review makes the same observation. I'd like to hear from people who know of some 3B applications and games. The only one I know about is either EGA Paint or PC Paint ... I forget which one. > I wish I had their new high res version which is supposed to be 300 dpi. I don't understand the need for such high resolution. I've used both 100 and 200 dpi mice, and I haven't noticed any benefit of the 200 dpi. One might presume it affects pick accuracy. But I would think that depends largely on the mapping of mouse coords to screen coords, which I think is really arbitrary. In fact, I might have found that the lower-resolution mouse is "better" (for me). With one 200 dpi mouse, I found it difficult to hold position when I went for the button. (It was even worse for my kids.) I didn't have that problem with a 100 dpi mouse. But there were other factors that might have been involved. Understand, I'm not trying to be provocative -- and I don't have a lot of mouse experience to draw on. I'm just thinking out loud. I seems to me that input resolution might be important when you're digitizing -- as you might do with a tablet. But that's hard (impossible?) to do with a mouse. Am I missing an important point? Is there really something to all this dpi stuff, or it just hype? BTW, just how easy is it to mix-and-match mice and applications/games? Is it as easy as matching modems; or is it more like matching printers? That is, just how cautious should I be in selecting a mouse: is the mouse interface a critical issue? Does "MS Mouse compatibility" imply a mode with sigificant limitations; or does it simply affect the communication between mouse and driver? Ken Mintz
dbraun@cadev4.intel.com (Doug Braun ~) (05/02/88)
Does anyone know if a Logitech Mouse (bus and/or serial) works OK with Microsoft Flight Simulator? I have a situation where The screen cursor follows the mouse, but nothing happens when I press the buttons. Also, does anyone have any tips, hacks, references, or anecdotes for a novice FS user? (Any way to get it on a hard disk?) Doug Braun Intel Corp CAD 408 765-4279 / decwrl \ | hplabs | -| oliveb |- !intelca!mipos3!cadev4!dbraun | amd | \ qantel /
limes@sun.uucp (Greg Limes) (05/03/88)
Ken Mintz (mintz@hpindda.HP.COM) writes: <4330075@hpindda.HP.COM> >> I've got the three button variety and have NEVER had a use for the third >> button except in mouse script work written for the Logitech. > That's my understanding, and the Byte review makes the same observation. I'd > like to hear from people who know of some 3B applications and games. The > only one I know about is either EGA Paint or PC Paint ... I forget which one. Such applications will probably be few and far between; software designers tend to try to reach as wide an audience as possible, and there are a *lot* of two button mice out there. However ... since I have a 3-button Logitech C7, I do tend to set up frontend files that use all three buttons, plus all four of the chord combinations. I am still tweaking my frontend for MicroEmacs. -- Greg Limes [limes@sun.com] frames to /dev/fb
carlp@iscuva.ISCS.COM (Carl Paukstis) (05/04/88)
In article <4330075@hpindda.HP.COM> mintz@hpindda.HP.COM (Ken Mintz) writes: [lotsa stuff, followed by:] > > BTW, just how easy is it to mix-and-match mice and applications/games? Is > it as easy as matching modems; or is it more like matching printers? That > is, just how cautious should I be in selecting a mouse: is the mouse > interface a critical issue? Does "MS Mouse compatibility" imply a mode with > sigificant limitations; or does it simply affect the communication between > mouse and driver? > >Ken Mintz I also have the Logitech mouse (serial "lo res" version). I've not had any problem with dirt, and my computer desk environment is not too clean (I have two kids). As to mix/match - every piece of software I've tried which claims to work with MS mouse works fine with Logitech, although I admit not having tried a lot of the more expensive commercial programs. The compatibility issue is not between mouse and driver but between driver and application. I've done a bit of hacking with MS C and my mouse, using summary descriptions from PC Magazine for the MS mouse driver functions, and everything works as expected. The MS mouse driver has, for example, a function which returns, among other things, the number of buttons on the mouse. MS specs say a zero return means two buttons, any other number means some other number of buttons. Logitech's driver returns a 3, which suits me fine. As to resolution - I have a program which polls the mouse for coordinates and displays them (they're basically in pixels, for graphics modes). I have difficulty moving the mouse a small enough amount to change the coordinates by just 1 - it's usually 3-4, no matter how gently I move. I haven't tried the functions which return movement in "mickeys", but I fail to see how a higher-resolution mouse could be more useful. I think Logitech's Point editor (free with mouse) has been discussed. I like it fine for a mouse-oriented editor, but I don't generally like mouse editors as a race. I also bought LogiPaint (PC Paintbrush). It's OK, not wonderful. It is, however, certainly worth the ~$20 extra you pay for it with the mouse. BTW - CodeView (from MS) works fine with the Logitech mouse. -- Carl Paukstis +1 509 927 5600 x5321 |"I met a girl who sang the blues | and asked her for some happy news UUCP: carlp@iscuvc.ISCS.COM | but she just smiled and turned away" ...uunet!iscuva!iscuvc!carlp | - Don MacLean
stevewa@upvax.UUCP (Steve Ward) (05/06/88)
Genuine Smalltalk uses a 3-button mouse (I don't know about the Smalltalk-V) You can use it with t 2-button, but it's clumsy... Steve
platt@swatsun.uucp (Steve Platt) (05/07/88)
I called logitech about it (sometime around a year ago); they told me their drivers don't work with flight simulator under DOS 3.0+, but they do work under DOS 2.2. I have tried this; they are right. Needless to say, I keep a 2.2 boot floppy around for when I feel like running flight simulator... not very often... They MAY have fixed the driver since then, though. Outside of this, the Logitech mouse is the best I've used. Oh -- I'm partial *against* optical mice. "up" for an optical mouse is relative to the pad; for me, "up" is "push my arm away" (depending on how I'm sitting). I've always had the feeling the computer should adjust to me and not vice-versa.
limes@sun.uucp (Greg Limes) (05/08/88)
In article <1783@thebes.UUCP> platt@swatsun.uucp (Steve Platt) writes: >Outside of this, the Logitech mouse is the best I've used. > >Oh -- I'm partial *against* optical mice. "up" for an optical mouse >is relative to the pad; for me, "up" is "push my arm away" (depending >on how I'm sitting). I've always had the feeling the computer should >adjust to me and not vice-versa. So turn the pad. I use an optical mouse at work, and the pad sits at about a 45-degree angle to everything else -- so it aligns with my natural "push" movement. Of course, I use a Logitech at home ... -- Greg Limes [limes@sun.com] Illigitimi Non Carborundum