amlovell@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Anthony M Lovell) (05/11/88)
The 20 meg drive in our XT has breathed its last. I understand it is the Volkswagen of the hard disk world. Are these babies any good, or are they perennial troublemakers? Ours would always start up sounding like a bicycle wheel with a playing card in the spokes, and we had to "play" with the power switch to get it running smoothly. Now, it gives seek errors. Is it likely that this is all due to the bargain basement nature of the device, or might it really be something else? Please respond via mail or posting. -- amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu ...since 1963. disclaimer: These are MY opinions. You only WISH they were yours.
pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg) (05/11/88)
In article <2845@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> amlovell@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Anthony M Lovell) writes:
...The 20 meg drive in our XT has breathed its last. I understand it is
...the Volkswagen of the hard disk world. Are these babies any good, or
...are they perennial troublemakers?
... Ours would always start up sounding like a bicycle wheel with a
...playing card in the spokes, and we had to "play" with the power switch
...to get it running smoothly. Now, it gives seek errors.
... Is it likely that this is all due to the bargain basement nature of
...the device, or might it really be something else?
...Please respond via mail or posting.
My understanding was that Seagate produced a large batch of marginal
ST-225s, and that the ones made "recently" are again flawless. The old
ones were indeed the VW Bugs of the HD world. A friend has my old one
in his system; it has worked flawlessly (including 3 months with an RLL
controller) for about 4 years now.der@pyr.gatech.EDU (David Eugene Ridenhour) (05/12/88)
I've had mine since early January now. I used to operate off of a
Tandon 252 10meg 1/2 height internal. That thing was the noisiest
drive I've ever heard in my life. I don't know about that "bad batch"
out there but ... In my opinion, you can't ask for a quieter, more
reliable drive. I haven't had mine for too too long but everybody that
I know who has one wouldn't have any other either.
Hmm... slight tongue twister? :-)
How long ago did was that drive made? It may have been in that batch...
I hope that you get your problems worked out.
David
--
David Eugene Ridenhour - Office of Computing Services
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA, 30332
uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!gatech!gitpyr!der
ARPA: der@pyr.gatech.edu U.S. Mail: POB 30779,Atlanta,Ga 30332 #404-876-2752wtm@neoucom.UUCP (05/12/88)
The only unusual failure mode for Seagate ST-225 drives that I am aware of is that if a reall gorilla installs the drive and torques the mounting screws (or uses screws that are too long), that this places stress on the chassis. The stressed chassis causes errors in the positioner (which is apparently an open loop design, anybody know for sure?). Fortunately, the problem is recoverable by backing off the mounting screws until they are not butting up agaist the chassis and are not unduly tight. As per the previous discussion, ST-225s should not be used with RLL controllers -- though rumor has it that recent ST-225s are really the same as the RLL certified ST-238 model; the ST-238 undergoing more rigorous testing before shipping. For experimental purposes, I have formatted an ST-225 to 32 megs as an RLL drive and then reformatted with another controller and haven't had any problems. I think the drives that might have problems are ones like miniscribes that use a dedicated servo platter. I also tried formatting a 45 meg Rodime 3-1/2 inch drive that is supposed to be MFM up to 62 meg RLL (the limit of my controller) and then switched it back to MFM without incident. The Rodime drive has been perking away back as MFM 24 hrs/day for several months in this computer since I tried the RLL experiment on it. I've been using a Seagate ST-238 at home since Jan. 21, 1987 with and OMTI 5527 controller. The drive arrived with zero errors, and has been in use several hours a day since without any incidents. For references, check out the April '88 issue of Mini Micro Systems magazine. The entire issue is full of nice articles on RLL, ESDI, SCSI, testabilty of drives, etc. Very much recommended reading. --Bill
jxh@cup.portal.com (05/13/88)
Talking to Gary Simbulan at California Disk Drive Repair (he should know) leads me to believe that the Seagate ST-225 has a practical life of only two years (if that). He showed me a STACK of dead ones, ALL of which had a nasty discoloration on one of the circuit boards, just under the monolith responsible for controlling the stepper motor. He asserts that there is "no back-EMF protection", and that every time the positioner stepper starts and stops, the chip takes a little zot. This evidently wears it out prematurely (surprise: I should have thought that it would make it fail at the factory!). In their defense, I have been using mine lightly in a WYSEpc 286 for over two years with no untoward behavior. However, two others run by people at work have died rather suddenly (soft errors for three hours, then nothing). They have replaced them with Fuji something-or-others (3-inch) and are happy so far. The Fujis are much quieter than the ST-225, idle or seeking. In summary, I would not buy another one, but I'm not rushing to replace the one I'm using. Keep those backups current! I do most of my beating up of files over an Ethernet: my colleagues (whose drives failed) do not. Light use seems to be the answer. I'm walking on eggshells from now on. ------------ Jim Hickstein, VSAT Systems, San Jose, CA (408) 435-8016 jxh@cup.portal.com ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!jxh
vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) (05/14/88)
My understanding is that these problems (other than the screws too tight) do *not* plague the ST238? Correct? -- O----------------------------------------------------------------------> | Cliff Joslyn, Cybernetician at Large | Systems Science, SUNY Binghamton, vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu V All the world is biscuit shaped. . .
brianc@cognos.uucp (Brian Campbell) (05/19/88)
In article <5363@cup.portal.com> jxh@cup.portal.com writes:
! Talking to Gary Simbulan at California Disk Drive Repair (he should know)
! leads me to believe that the Seagate ST-225 has a practical life of only
! two years (if that). He showed me a STACK of dead ones, ALL of which had
! a nasty discoloration on one of the circuit boards, just under the monolith
! responsible for controlling the stepper motor. He asserts that there is
! "no back-EMF protection", and that every time the positioner stepper starts
! and stops, the chip takes a little zot. This evidently wears it out
! prematurely (surprise: I should have thought that it would make it fail
! at the factory!).
I would guess that for each "stack of dead ones", there is a much larger
stack of live ones. There are an awful lot of ST225's out there.
! In their defense, I have been using mine lightly in a WYSEpc 286 for over
! two years with no untoward behavior.
I've been using mine extensively for about 2 1/2 years. I am, perhaps, a
little surprised that it has lasted this long; it has been in constant use
24hrs a day, each and every day of those 2 1/2 years. The drive is being
used on a Fido BBS complete with local and echomail message areas.
Perhaps I'm just lucky... I don't even have any bad sectors!
--
Brian Campbell uucp: decvax!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!cognos!brianc
Cognos Incorporated mail: POB 9707, 3755 Riverside Drive, Ottawa, K1G 3Z4
(613) 738-1440 fido: (613) 731-2945 300/1200, sysop@1:163/8baumann@hope.UUCP (Michael Baumann) (05/27/88)
In article <2845@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> amlovell@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Anthony M Lovell) writes: >The 20 meg drive in our XT has breathed its last. I understand it is >the Volkswagen of the hard disk world. Are these babies any good, or >are they perennial troublemakers? I have heard differing opinions about the reliablity of the 225. Personally I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it. I had one that got EXTENSIVE use (lots of large compiles and the like, heavy seeking!!) that failed drastically, no warning... It just stopped working, any attempt to access the drive resulted in the access light coming on- and staying that way. This was after only 13 months. I am not the only one in this area that has had this problem. I admit that I may have gotten one of the "bad" ones, but once bitten twice shy. I now use a Fuji, quieter, faster, and smaller (3 1/2). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Life is full of little suprises." -- Pandora (as quoted by Robert Asprin) UUCP: {ucbvax!ucdavis,ucsd,ucivax}!ucrmath!hope!baumann or !ucrmath!jinx!baumann