kenns@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Kenn Stump) (06/18/88)
To all those who are in favor of Phil Katz in his current battle, flame SEAWARE. I Like PKARC & PKXARC, and other PKstuff, to the point of writing this message. SEAWARE's ARC & XARC progs were really almost TOO slow to be useful. (lest an AT compatible critter be used) As someone said earlier, Phil's PKARC & PKXARC have more features than SEAWARE's ARC. Don't let good software be downtrodden by jealous competitors.. And, at the risk of sounding extremely tacky, Vote for Phil Katz. A vote for a better tomorrow filled with better software. (It sounded tacky alright!) Flames Anyone? kenns@jacobs.cs.orst.edu <=- U decide -=> hp-pcd!orstcs!jacobs!kenns I *should* get the mail, mailers willing..
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (06/20/88)
What does this battle have to do with whether PKARC is faster than ARC? Unless SEA didn't make up the name 'ARC' there's one very clear point in this matter. If you want to compete with a program called 'ARC' then you can't call your competitor "your-initals"ARC. (Perhaps SEA didn't originate their trademark, or didn't use it properly or protect it properly. Let the judge decide that.) Perhaps I should make a clone, which I will call the BTIBM PS/2 Model 50 and put my new spreadsheet, BTLotus 1-2-3 on it! -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473 "USENET -- the world's least important network."
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (06/20/88)
In article <5162@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kenns@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Kenn Stump) writes: | To all those who are in favor of Phil Katz in his current battle, | flame SEAWARE. I Like PKARC & PKXARC, and other PKstuff, to the point | of writing this message. What has that got to do with the lawsuit? If PK took some of SEAware's intellectual property, or used some of their trademerks, it's unfair even if you like, or I like, or the POPE likes it. If ARC is a trademark (the program name, not the file type), then there may be a misuse of the trademark. If there is any validity to look and feel the menus may be an infringement. It doesn't matter who thinks look and feel is stupid or great, the law matters. Again, the look and feel of the directory listings are very similar. I personally feel that PK did some things which were not morally justified (regardless of the law). He used a lot of the look and feel of ARC, he used the .arc filename, and he made the default of his program be incompatible with the original arc program. I believe he did this to make money. Certainly creating files which ARC can't unarc makes SEAware look bad. At least ARC has an error message "You need a newer version of ARC," while PKARC says "corrupted archive," implying that if pkarc doesn't know how to read it it's no good. While SEAware released their source code to the world, PK guards his carefully, and the only way you can handle a pkarc on UNIX or Amiga (or wherever) seems to be to use an enhanced version of SEA's arc. Before anyone trys to tell me that look and feel doesn't apply because there's no other way to do it, let me say this: hogwash! Rahul Dhesi did it with zoo, new commands, new user interface, lots of features not in arc or pkarc. New file format, too, so people wouldn't be confused. Dean Cooper did it with DWC. New file format and features, and of course a new file format. The source code for both of these is available, and both are within five percent of the speed of pkarc under DOS (not always slower, either), and have about the same compression. I was very pleased with pkarc when it first came out, it was faster and compatible. I assumed the source would be forthcoming. I was wrong. Of course SEAware has a number of other fine products, such as SEAlink, and Thom Henderson has given away lots of source code. I forget the names of PKware's other products and where to get source... Why don't we stop arguing about moral grounds here and concentrate on the legal issues; did pkarc take something from SEAware which is protected by law? If he did they he should pay. Given the behavior of the two companies, I believe that it's easy to identify one company which has taken the "let's make a few bucks from this neat thing," and one which has done some blatently commercial things. The court will decide, not the net. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
bobmon@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (RAMontante) (06/22/88)
davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: > > I personally feel that PK did some things which were not morally >justified (regardless of the law). He used a lot of the look and feel >of ARC, he used the .arc filename, and he made the default of his >program be incompatible with the original arc program. I believe he did >this to make money. Certainly creating files which ARC can't unarc >makes SEAware look bad. [...] Running lots faster than ARC makes SEAware look bad. I'm not really impressed that they've taken to distributing Buerg's ARCE -- does this mean that SEA is no longer supporting their own software, but is abandoning it to third parties? > [...] At least ARC has an error message "You need a >newer version of ARC," while PKARC says "corrupted archive," implying >that if pkarc doesn't know how to read it it's no good. While SEAware >released their source code to the world, PK guards his carefully, and >the only way you can handle a pkarc on UNIX or Amiga (or wherever) seems >to be to use an enhanced version of SEA's arc. As you imply, SEA has obsoleted its own program at least twice, each time adding an incompatible new compression method. No change in extension, no ability to force compatibility....and why should those other systems be hamstrung more than they have to be by limitations of old MSDOS code? [...] >and Thom Henderson has given away lots of source code. I forget the >names of PKware's other products and where to get source... PKfind is one. I use it instead of the braindamaged MSDOS search command. As for source, let me go out on a limb by repeating what I've heard -- Katz's source IS available, it just isn't on Usenet; and it happens to be MASM source, which is one reason it wouldn't be too likely to appear on a net full of Unix/C fanatics. (I've *heard* that ARC source is available, too -- tell me that it really is and I'll have heard it another time, without yet seeing it myself or caring to.) > Why don't we stop arguing about moral grounds here and concentrate on >the legal issues; did pkarc take something from SEAware which is >protected by law? If he did they he should pay. Given the behavior of >the two companies, I believe that it's easy to identify one company >which has taken the "let's make a few bucks from this neat thing," and >one which has done some blatently commercial things. The court will >decide, not the net. The (computer-illiterate) court may not decide; it may well be settled out of court by rapacious (computer-illiterate) lawyers. It may even be settled by the relative affordability of those lawyers' fees. There are significant moral issues here, and I'm not sure either party has the moral high ground, but I am mightily offended by the party that moved the moral issues into the amoral arena of the legislative system. To the extent that computer users form any sort of community, the community will be worse off for this. -- bob,mon (bobmon@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu) "In this position, the skier is flying in a complete stall..."