emanuel@cernvax.UUCP (emanuel) (07/07/88)
Hi there, netlanders! Sorry to post this only now (it's really bed time... :-). Some time ago I sent a request for opinions on BBS software (notice that I didn't say BBS System's Software...), and I'm posting the replies since some of you have asked me to do it. Eventually you could add on your own opinions (or may be your employer's :-) so that this stuff can be really useful for future sysops (like me) or bbs software writers. So there goes: > >I have some questions you. I'm thinking on the possibility of setting up >a BBS System, and so I'd like to hear some of your opinions on the subject. >I've read some BBS advertisements, stating '24 hour - free service' or >things like that. So, > > If you're a SysOp: > > a. What BBS system do you use? Are you happy with it? > The Frumious Bandersnatch (occrsh!squid!david@mcvax.UUCP), answers: "On the bbs I help to administrate, OPUS is the bbs, and BinkleyTerm answers the phone, schedules events, sends/receives netmail, sends/receives file requests. OPUS is capable of all of these things, but doesn't do them quite as nicely." Says polyslo!sflaher@mcvax.UUCP (Steve Flaherty): "I have run a BBS for two years, and have used FIDO, OPUS, QuickBBS, Genesis, Wildcat, RBBS-PC, PCBoard, and several others. I chose to use the Opus BBS program after testing it against the others. It offers a full-screen editor to callers, the best file transfer protocol is built-in, and is very easy for me to customize. I would like to see the FIDONET and Usenet (UUCP) protocols implemented in an easier to use fashion, but am otherwise very happy with it. " Answers hccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu!julian@mcvax.UUCP (Julian Cowley) "Just recently I acquired the software to DMG bbs, written in part by Marcos R. Della, which was attempted to be posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc a couple of months ago. Unfortunately, the author had some problems with his mailer, so most people over the net never received it completely. Later, he offered to copy it if you sent him disks, so I took him up on the offer. The system is supposed to be a tree-structured message system, which interests me greatly, but unfortunately, I don't have a hard disk and can't test it. He did, however, give the number of a working DMG system to see how it works. I haven't phoned it yet. If you're interested in the DMG bbs, mail me a note, and I'll dig up the address and phone number for Marcos' system." On the other end, polyslo!rposert@mcvax.UUCP (Bob Posert) says, "There are a couple of local bbs's, so I have experience with opus and Wildcat (as a user.) I prefer Wildcat, the command letters are much easier to remember. Also, once the sysop upgraded to the registered version, it supported zmodem as an 'external protocol.' Supporting zmodem is probably the *most important* feature from my point of view, since most of my bbs use is uploading and downloading files, and zmodem is about 10-15% faster than any other protocol - except perhaps sealink. One local bbs is using 'dmg' - I can't stand it. It takes me 10 minutes to figure out how to read the messages in a particular subject." Says ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP, a SysOp, in short: "Opus v1.03b. I love it!" Answers tahoe.unr.edu!adonis@mcvax.UUCP (Derrick Hamner): "From a users standpoint, I like PC-Board. It is easy to use, seems easy to do custom configurations, it handles large file bases (500mb+) with ease, and is fast. My only gripe is that it doesn't have Zmodem as an internal protocol. You must have a door for this." Mike Scher <dukeac!strange@mcvax.UUCP> answers: "You may be interested in a very powerful BBS called "Weyr-Net." It is a truly amazing work of art, supporting user-embeddable ANSI color and highlight codes, full-screen editing in VT-52 and ANSI/VT-100 modes, support of DOUBLEDOS with file-locking, "crosstalk" is you have 2 ports running, and is NOVEL-compat. Three numbers for systems running Weyr-Net 6.1 (V7 soon to be released) are (201)9945195, (201)9929891, (201)9920834. It is truly woth a look and only costs $75. Did I mention (no I didn't) that the system has a VERY powerful internal macro language so sophisticated, one SYSOP wrote an on-line chess game with it?" davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) in an usenet article, says "I have used and enjoyed Magpie, and am looking at running it on my system (along with several other boards). However, I am not sure that it's for everyone, because the threaded organization is not as natural to some as others. You can get sidetracked down a thread and have a real time getting back where you were. I've used it for some time now, since the PC days, and as much as I like it I would say that it's great for fairly dexterous users, but not the casual user who wants to log in and be able to use the system quickly. I suspect that there's nothing better for frequent users (as you describe yourself). I'm also looking at Citadel, and it has some of the features I like in Magpie, at least as concepts. It has a mixture of msgs and files in a more or less uniform manner, allows cross posting of files without special intervention (separate msg areas can share file space), and seems to have some very good admin tools, including fairwitness for individual rooms as well as assistant sysops. I've only been testing for a few days, so I can't comment more, other than the code structure is fair and the readability is good." Says Dick Groenhof <cs.vu.nl!bagron@mcvax.UUCP> [Hoe is het met u?] "I'm (just like you) planning to start a BBS, but I've learned one thing: There are many BBS-programs, but only a few good ones Especially if you running MS-DOS. Most BBS-users I know here in The Netherlands are bored with the FIDO/OPUS/SEADOG/RBBS software. I am looking for something completely different and I think you are to. A friend of mine is working on a different approach which is still FIDO-compatible, at least you can use the FIDO mail possibilities, but otherwise it's going to be a completely different program. When you find something else that is quite revolutionary in this area I hope you'll let me know. One last thing : TRY TO BE ORIGINAL !!! There already are a lot of BBS's that are only used to download software." From: Paul Gomme <uwovax.uwo.ca!16012_3045@mcvax.UUCP> "Over time, I've managed to use a fairly large number of bulletin board programs, as a user. Overall, I'd say that my favourite BBS software would have to be Opus. The greatest single item which I like about Opus is OpEd, the full screen editor which allows for replies in context (sort of like this message) -- i.e. quoting the original message so as to maintain the original context. In addition, Opus allows the sysop to set up multiple mail bases (sort of like news groups), as well as multiple file areas. My only complaint with Opus is that finding new files on a board is often difficult, and generally requires checking out every file area (although a local sysop has a utility which builds bulletins with recent uploads -- a rather nice add-on feature). Best yet, Opus is available free, and can be used free (so long as you abide by certain conditions, clearly spelled out in the docs). I've also used RBBS and PC Board. Generally, I'm not as impressed with these packages. The e-mail doesn't allow quoting messages, so the context of messages is often lost. However, they do seem to have better handling of files in the sense of being able to list new uploads, etc. In addition, PC Board allows the use of "doors" -- programs which can be run from PC Board. Doors which I've seen include a couple of games, and a file transfer utility which allows for longer descriptions of uploads. However, recent versions of PC Board cost money -- somewhere $200, I think. There are two or three other packages I've seen, but they were far from satisfactory. As well, I've heard of QuickBBS, but haven't seen it running. I actually got my hands on a copy of Opus (I was going to try to become a "point", but lost interest). The software was quite simple to set up and get running (although customizing it seems to be a never-ending task, from what I've seen). The only problem I had was that the install program _really_ wants to install on C:, and I _really_ wanted it to install on E:. Meant I had to use SUBST until I had the package set up (not too much of a problem once I figured it out)." From: pluto!ecb@mcvax.UUCP (Eric Brown) "I run Citadel-86; one of the many varieties of Citadel. Citadel is a message- oriented bulletin board system with full networking. Citadel is also available on Unix, Atari ST's, Amigas, and (god forbid) Z-80's running CP/M. I find Citadel VERY easy to maintain. However, Citadel is a rather "minimalist" BBS, and it's not for everyone's taste." "(...) The main reason I originally got Citadel was because it was one of the few BBS systems that would run on a Zenith Z-100. The NICE thing about Citadel (unlike many other BBS systems) is that the sources are available and even somewhat understandable. However, the one main problem that I have found is that Citadel doesn't have a lot of user menus. This tends to be somewhat off-putting to novice users." > > b. Can you work in your computer at the same time you're having > a "session"? > Answers polyslo!sflaher@mcvax.UUCP (Steve Flaherty): "I use the DoubleDos program from Soft Logic Solutions to give me a two-user DOS compatible environment. OPUS is very friendly to DoubleDos, and my system performance only suffered when a floppy was accessed." ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP points as well to multitasking systems: "Yes if I use Double DOS or other "multitasking" systems." The Frumious Bandersnatch (occrsh!squid!david@mcvax.UUCP) says, "With DoubleDOS, yes, but not with Desqview, and we no longer use DD. <sigh> More memory! Need MORE memory!" From: pluto!ecb@mcvax.UUCP (Eric Brown) "Not really; I have a dedicated Zenith Z-100 that I use for that purpose. However, I understand that Citadel works quite nicely with the IBM PC multitaskers (Desqview, etc.) that are available." > > c. How do you manage to pay your electricity bills? 1/2 :-) > Answers polyslo!sflaher@mcvax.UUCP (Steve Flaherty): "My power bills run about $30.00 per month for an apartment that has all electric appliances. The computer doesn't seem to contribute too much to the bill." From: pluto!ecb@mcvax.UUCP (Eric Brown) "I don't worry about the electricity bills; it's the phone bills that are the killers. Seriously, I pay maybe $5/mo in electricity, and $25/mo in phone bills." Says ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP, a SysOp, in short: "It's an extra job I got (paid) and my boss pays my telephone bill!!!" [lucky you!] From: occrsh!squid!david@mcvax.UUCP (The Frumious Bandersnatch) "Electricity is the least of it. Let's talk about *lots* of hard disk, fast modems, and phone bills! It is very addicting. You'll happily sell your first-born child." > > d. If you know the BBS Systems Software distributed in SIMTEL20, > please comment on them, as to their features, and problems, > and userfriendliness. > [No positive answers. Do you know anything about them?] > > e. What makes you excited about BBS Systems? > From: occrsh!squid!david@mcvax.UUCP (The Frumious Bandersnatch) "Communications. It doesn't matter what you look like, or whether you have bad breath. This form of comm is the great equalizer. Getting the latest and greatest version of public-domain and shareware software packages is also very useful, especially those which contain source code." Answers polyslo!sflaher@mcvax.UUCP (Steve Flaherty): "Like Usenet, a BBS can be a great way to exchange programs, learn new facts, and meet new people." Says ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP, a SysOp, in short: "It's fun and you can help a lot of people without having a telephone calling at 2 a clock in the night and sure somethings yourself!" > > f. What would you like to have in your BBS System that you don't > have now? Is there any system you've heard of that has it? > Answers polyslo!sflaher@mcvax.UUCP (Steve Flaherty): "Like I said before, a better method of interfacing to the various networks would be nice. I don't know of any bbs programs that are better." Says ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP, a SysOp, again in short: "Read some of my (and others) suggestion to WBBS (Worlds best Bulletin Board System)" [where?] > > g. How did you get your system? > Answers polyslo!sflaher@mcvax.UUCP (Steve Flaherty): "I downloaded it from a FIDONET hub system in San Diego, California. Opus is absolutely free, as are most of the utility programs that have been written to aid the Opus sysop." Says occrsh!squid!david@mcvax.UUCP (The Frumious Bandersnatch) about OPUS: "The first version we had was obtained by downloading from another system. Since then, we've been able to file-request updates from other systems around the country." Says ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP, a SysOp, in short: "It's PD and I got it through a friend (and it's _GOOD_!!)" From: pluto!ecb@mcvax.UUCP (Eric Brown) "I originally called Citadel-86 Test system in Minneapolis, Minnesota and downloaded the sources and binaries from there." > > h. Any extra comments...? > From: occrsh!squid!david@mcvax.UUCP (The Frumious Bandersnatch) "Yes, but. I could sing the praises of netmail-bbs's all night. As a user... I like what I'm used to. I'm used to OPUS. It is quite configurable, but the menu functions work generally the same. I like its functionality. If you find a bbs that does "everything", chances are it will leave something to be desired. I recommend a bbs that allows you to add on other utilities to augment an existing system, and in that way, be able to add the bells and whistles of your choice. Most of them allow this, but not all. If the board comes with source code, take this as a sign that it is not well-supported by the author, and you'll have to do a lot of that yourself. It is nice when the add-on utilities come with source, though. Boards that can do date/time-based scheduling are nice, too, because you can put all of your sysop chores in one big batch file, and not have to do much of anything manually once it has been set up and debugged. OPUS can be a bloody pain to install, because it has so many options, and is very configurable. It is often wise to get help from someone who is already running one, if that is possible. If not, then use ALL of the defaults, and change them only after it is up and running. A personal mailer gives you all of the fun of a bbs, with few of the headaches." Answers polyslo!sflaher@mcvax.UUCP (Steve Flaherty): "A good bbs can take a lot of time to manage, but if you are fortunate enough to get a good group of users, the rewards outweigh the costs." From: occrsh!squid!david@mcvax.UUCP (The Frumious Bandersnatch) "Ahhhh. A subject near and dear to my heart, as both a 'user' and 'sysop'. These days, the fun of bbs-ing is only part of it, and perhaps I should say a small part. What makes it all the more interesting is a bbs that handles netmail (FidoNet and/or Usenet). Let's take it a step further and say, "why should I bother with all these blasted users when I can have all the fun of it and not have to deal with them?" Now we enter the realm of personal netmailers (again, in FidoNet and/or Usenet flavors). You'll note my various net addresses below; one in Usenet and one in FidoNet. My node is only for mail, of both types (on an IBM PC compatible running MS-DOS). I also help to manage a public bbs, and frequent boards here and there. Usenet, and FidoNet's equivalent of Usenet (which is called EchoMail) is really the most popular part of most boards that participate in those things. Why limit yourself to just local users, when you can talk to people all over the world on a daily basis? FidoNet - unlike Usenet - allows for passing binaries much more simply, and in binary form." > > If you're a BBS user, > > a. What are your impressions on the System you're loging to (not the > 'contents' of it - software, etc. - but the general appearence > and easyness of use)? > Says ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP: "Opus systems is easy to use and you don't have to wait every time you enter a command as you have to on some other systems" [b. Question omitted on lack of answers] > > c. What would you prefer about it? > unisv!vanpelt@mcvax.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) says, "I used to call a whole lot of different BBS systems. My favorite by a wide margin is TBBS. The features that make it my favorite are: 1) ^S ^Q always works for stopping and starting the flow of text from the BBS. This is not necessarily true for OPUS, in particular one I call fairly regularly. 2) Depending on how the Sysop has configured it, it is possible to read all new messages on all or any selected subset of message areas at once -- a vast help for downloading all new messages for later perusal off-line. 3) At any point during display of a message you can hit "n", and it will instantly skip to the next message. This is a wonderful time-saver for skipping trash messages while you're dumping new messages. In fact, with a feature of the ProComm terminal software (The command WHEN "From: Idiot User" "N") I was able to partially simulate the "KILL file" feature of Unix's "rn" news reader. 4) It accepts my last name. Many BBS programs (some levels of RBBS, all levels of OPUS, and FIDO prior to level 12) do not allow a 2-part last name like "Van Pelt". I get very annoyed when a BBS refuses to accept my right name. Of course, OPUS, FIDO, and RBBS are free, and TBBS costs. One caveat with TBBS is that since it is almost infinitely configurable, the menus may not look at all the same from one TBBS system to the other. In particular, some TBBS sysops don't understand the utility of being able to enter one command to dump out all new messages on all message groups of interest, so sometimes the message groups are segregated so this isn't possible. And I've seem some that are badly configured into a confusing maze of twisty menus. But the defaults, as distributed, seem pretty nice." > > d. How does a BBS system contribute to your happiness? :-) > Says ambush!leif@mcvax.UUCP: "I get easy access to a lot of people" And pluto!ecb@mcvax.UUCP (Eric Brown) adds, "The best thing I like about Citadel is the way it tends to promote friendship among its users. For some reason or another, many Citadels that I have called tend to have semi-regular events where the users can get together and talk face to face." -------------- And that's all. I might have accidentally erase one or two messages, so please if your message is not here, than either blame your mailer or forgive me. Some ideas (like connecting a bbs to usenet, to fidonet, etc.) really seemed interesting. Is there anybody who has any experience on it - ok, mainly to connecting a PC to USEnet? If so, could you please, shortly, describe your setup? (I mean using the PC as a host, like any unix machine. Is it possible, or you simply log into a Unix host?) Is there any *cheap* way of connecting bbs's (or to bbs's) from other countries? Thanks a lot, really, for your responses to this request. I hope it'll be as useful to you as it was to me, and I hope that this posting didn't break any special secret, nor any copyright law :-) cheers, Emanuel Machado -- Emanuel T.M. Machado, CERN | "Science is true. | UUCP: _ _ | Don't be misled | emanuel@cernvax.UUCP /_ ____ __ __ _ </ | by facts." | FLAMES: /_ / / / /_ < / / /_/ <'_ /_ | -- Finagle's Creed | /dev/null