phco@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (John Miller) (08/25/88)
Here are the responses to my inquiry about a good, cheap 386. The jury
is still out on this one. I'll let you know about the verdict in due
time.
--- John Miller
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Check out PC-Magazine's ad's. You might find what you are looking for in
the $2000 - $3000 range.
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I just bought an AT system from CompuAdd. I would buy from them again. But...
check out Wells American in South Carolina. Sorry I don't have my phone
book (They don't have an 800 number, but they do have adds in most of the
trade rags PC Week, InfoWeek, etc). They have a base '386 box that starts
out at $1999. A friend of mine has a '286 box from them and is estatic about
it.
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i'm also in the market for such a box. i have found
that in the mid-2000s, you can get a stripped down box
(i.e. no hard disk, no monitor...but with controllers
and perhaps a graphics card).
the systems i am looking at are dell computers, rose hill,
and spield computers. i too have no information about these
companies so i would be interested in any info you get.
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You might try a company called QIC Research. Their phone is (408) 432-8880.
They are located in San Jose, CA. and carry the Everex line of equipment.
I got my 16MHz-386 box from them for a base price (without hard disk and
display) of $1800 about 6 months ago (before the RAM prices went up). This
box came with 1 Meg of RAM, 64K static ram cache (for 0 wait states), a 1.2Meg
5-1/4" floppy with FD/HD controller card, and a 200W power supply. The case
can hold 3 half hight drives and one full hight drive with full front access.
Oh, they also include a 101 key keyboard with this.
The only problem I had with the system was a faulty keyboard which they
replaced for the cost of shipping it back to them. Turn around time was good
(about a week). The machine runs everything I have tried on it, including
Windows 386.
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I have used a PC Designs GV-386 since Dec 1986. I have been very pleased
with it, and would buy another. It uses the AMI motherboard (also sold
by Mylex) and has an 800 tech support number. The power supply is big
enough for a full set of hard disks, floppies, tape drive, and 4MB of
memory. The newer version support the 387, the older ones the 287.
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I purchased an ACER 1100 (16MHz, 0 wait state) last October. It is
actually a MultiTech (Taiwan) machine, but they changed their name
because they thought MultiTech == Taiwan, and Taiwan had a poor
reputation for quality.
I've run it several hours a day (most of my work is done at the office)
and have not had a single problem with the machine itself. The 2400
baud modem they sold me was a piece of trash (3 in six months) and they
were jerks about it (the distributor in Van Nuys). I finally replaced
it with a model from a different manufacturer and have had no further
problems.
The machine cost me $5000 fully loaded -- 3MB RAM, EGA card + monitor,
monochrome graphics card + monitor, 40MB 28ms hard disk, modem and
mouse. The base machine was $3000. At the time of purchase it was
the fastest 386 machine available -- two weeks before Compaq announced
their 20MHz machine.
The best purchase I've made since then was a memory manager called
386MAX. For $75 I got a program that improved EMS performance by
over 500%, remaps ROMs into 32-bit RAM (another major speed improvement)
and remaps memory into the C400-E000 range which gives me 112K that
can be used by memory resident programs. I now have 80K of memory
resident programs and still have 575K free.
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Try the Everex boxes. I paid $1700.00 for my base machine, added other stuff
I already had from a previous box.
One of the fastest 16MHz boxes you can buy, too. Everex also has a fast 20MHz
box for not alot more.
Limitations of the 16MHz box (I have one, so does a friend) are:
80287 only
1-4Megabytes 32 bit RAM on motherboard (beyond using 1meg chips, more
memory is only 16bit on AT style expander card).
Hope this helps.... oh yeah, We bought ours at QIC Research, a company I have
done business with for years.
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The August issue of BYTE reviewed some high-end 386 machines and Everex
came out on top. The low-end 386 machines from Everex are pretty solid and
fast too. Do you know Mark Harris (ecsvax!harris) of Appalachian State U.?
He bought a couple 16MHz 386s from me ~4 months ago and are still happy. I
sold 2 additional 16MHz 386s to his friends 2 months ago. I'm enclosing my
price list for your information (3000A was the model I sold to Mark).
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I would suggest that you look at Dell computers. I bought their '286 20Mhz
machine and I am really pleased. They also offer a '386 machine at 20 Mhz.
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just one more comment about 386 machines. dell no
longer makes the model 300. they have replaced it
with the model 310. its a more expensive machine.
i got a quote of $2995 with nothing on it (except
1Mbyte memory, FD/HD controller). and i think it
is a 20MHZ machine.
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You might also consider Dell Computer's System 310. It starts at $4099.
I have no direct experience, but I hear their quality and service are very
good, though they have been having troubles shipping orders on time. They
market direct to customers. They have ads in most major computing mags.
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AVOID NORTHGATE AT ALL (I MEAN ALL) COSTS. The company that I work for
purchased one, and it will not run any software that uses heavy floating point.
calcs. Furthermore, Northgate refuses to replace it OR even fix it because
they claim that they have no return policy, AND THEY SAID THAT THEY NEVER
CLAIMED THAT THEIR MACHINE COULD RUN DOS PROGRAMS, THEY ONLY SAID THAT IT
WOULD RUN DOS. Stay far away from this company. We bought our NGate 386
last week, and it is the worst decision that we ever made. The company seems
to be a fly by night rip off house.
[followup for more detail . . .]
The company that I work for writes transportation software. We do all of
our programming in Microsoft C and Fortran, using DOS 3.3. It does a lot of
floating point math using the 80387. The software runs OK without the coproce
and running at 8 MhZ, but if the clock speed is increased, or the processor is
used, HARDWARE errors occur. It seems that they didn't test to see if the ma
machine could handle floating point math.
If my first message seemed a bit biased, it was. I still cant believe that
their customer service rep told us that "we bought the machine, so we are
stuck with it. There is no compatibility guarantee of any kind." The
magazines who write the reviews proclaim a machine "the ultimate computer" if
it is able to run flight simulator. No one tests for the important stuff
(floating point, unix capability) except maybe Byte, and I dont think that they
have reviewed it yet.
These comments are my own personal opinion. Please do not pass them along.
If you buy one (NOOOOOOOOO) judge for yourself.
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We sell the Televideo '386 systems; they're fast, compatible, and reasonable
in today's high RAM prices.
They're also trouble-free as far as I can tell. They simply work. Been
checked out here with both SCO Xenix and Microport V/386, no problem at all.
SCO requires a different HD controller than Uport for best performance
though.... (WD1003-WA2 stinks; you want WD1006 or ACB2372).
A 2MB system w/40M fixed disk runs in the $4k range. Comes with an on-site
warranty anywhere in the US, and we can ship within 48 hours.
The system I'm posting this from is one of these systems with a 80M drive,
hot RLL controller, and an extra 2M board; it's a LOW serial # unit, has REV
"A" proms in it (yikes! :-). No problems at all; we feed news, run a Telebit
and in general beat the snot out of it 24 hours a day. There's another one
about five feet from 'ddsw1', it's a DOS machine (and a fast one at that).
General stats:
o 16 Mhz, 0 wait, 32-bit certified CPU
o 80387 coprocessor socket
o 2M 80ns DRAM (2/way interleave) standard, expands to 15M + change
o 2 32-bit slots, 5 16-bit, 1 8-bit
o Serial & Parallel ports on motherboard
o 1.2M floppy drive
o Choice of controller - WD1003-WA2 or Televideo proprietary 1:1
track buffered; others at additional cost. Televideo controller
will run w/Microport '386, but not SCO Xenix.
o 40M fixed disk, 28ms
o Amber monitor, 101-key keyboard, hercules compatible graphics board
o Disk partitioning software (for MSDOS)
o 220W power supply
o On-site warranty, 90 days.
o 48 hour burn-in at MCS before shipment.
o Full size case; 1 full-height drive bay, 3 half-height, 2
accessible from the front panel. Keylock/reset/disk/power cluster.
Has a "real" reset (requires a deliberate push to actuate, you
won't accidentally bump it). System will boot with system
locked, as long as it is connected (good for unattended use).
Additional RAM:
o Memory comes on 2M & 8M boards, fully populated and tested
Let me know if we can be of help!
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Another 386 to add to your list is the Zenith 386. The price looks outrageous
until you see the Heathkit version. Go to your nearest Heath store. One of the
nice things about the machine is that EVERY chip is in a socket. Heath
is quite happy to give you a new chip to install if one fries. They have good
diagnostics which will narrow problems down to the chip level.
Building the kit takes 3 hours and does NOT involve soldering. If you
can follow instructions, it is easy.
The price is listed as $3349, but ask for a Heath Users Group discount
(join on the spot), and it will cost $3014. The price includes machine, 1.2MB
floppy, 1MB memory, Floppy / HD controller and the Z-449 video card (EGA
with VGA analog and normal TTL outputs).
I have one of these which I built in December. Heath has been really good
about fixing problems. They gave me a replacement ROM BIOS to fix a small
problem with old versions of Windows, for example, and let me put it in.
(If you are timid about tampering, they'll work on it in the store).
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--
John Miller (ecsvax!phco)
Dept. of Pharmacology, Univ. of N.C.-Chapel Hill
Chapel Hill, NC 27514 (919) 966-4343