mcintyre@turing.cs.rpi.edu (David McIntyre) (11/16/88)
This is not going to be pretty. I have had extensive exposure to the ST225, including selling about 50 of them as a salesman for Computer Depot and owning two of them. In addition, I have bought ST225's for my dad, for my girlfriend, and have recommended them to many friends. To all of them I apologize deeply and sincerely. I honestly thought that I was setting them up with a nice hard disk. If I had any idea what a pile of feces the ST225 is I never would have sold/bought them. 1) Computer Depot had close to a 40% DOA rate on new ST225s. A few of these were the Western Digital controllers, but most were the ST225's. 2) My girlfriends has just died. She has had it about 1 1/2 years, but has used it less than 2 hours. Looks like the stepper motor controller is gone. 3) I lost a lot of sales due to returned hd's. 4) My drive, used extensively, but always parked, always backed up, and always treated carefully, is going bad. Some sectors no longer work. The stepper motor controller is probably going bad. 5) Micro Cornucopia magazine has had several articles mentioning how bad these suckers are. 6) I called Micro C's help line, and Larry told me that I can replace the stepper motor IC. I am going to try this, but as soon as I get some cash I am getting a Miniscribe. ---------------- ===> I MEAN THIS...DO NOT BUY A ST225. They are not worth their weight in dog doodoo. My dad's drive is the only one I have frequent contact with that is not at least noisy part of the time or partially flaky. ===> Buy a Miniscribe. Everybody seems to like them. ===> I, personally, will never buy or recommend another Seagate product. Any company that ships out stuff like this is not worth taking a risk on. Especially delicate hard disks with short warranties. ------------------ Ok, you can take your earplugs out, and take off the sunglasses. Just don't forget what I said. ------------------- PS. I have no connection with Seagate or any other hard disk manufacturer, except for being continuously burned by Seagate. What really bugs me is that I really was happy with Seagate for a while, and recommended them to everybody. I feel sorta used :-) Dave "mr question" McIntyre | "....say you're thinking about a plate home : 518-276-5842 | of shrimp.....and someone says to office : 518-276-8633 | you `plate,' or `shrimp'......" mcintyre@turing.cs.rpi.edu |
davis@clocs.cs.unc.edu (Mark Davis) (11/16/88)
In article <1757@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU> mcintyre@turing.cs.rpi.edu (David McIntyre) writes: >This is not going to be pretty. >===> I MEAN THIS...DO NOT BUY A ST225. ... Well, it looks like the ST225 community splits nicely into two groups. Either you like it or you hate it. Unfortunately, it seems there are ST225's and ST225's. It appears that the worst complaints regard drives manufactured more than 2 years ago. ST 225's made then apparently were substandard. On the other hand, I see few complaints regarding drives made recently. (Note that most of the failures show up within a couple of weeks, so we don't have to worry about recent drives not being in service long enough.) For example, I have a ST 238 (almost the same drive) purchased in Summer 86. It has run flawlessly ever since installation, with daily use. I recommended the same drive to my neighbor a year ago and his has also run well. It appears that Seagate did not work out all of the bugs before they went into production of the 225. They took a big hit on their reputation. They are not the first ones to make such a mistake. Hopefully, they will survive. As David pointed out, some of the other products are OK. Even IBM uses them in some of the PS 2's. More opinions: 1. An ST 225 is a good buy now. Probably still worth buying a preformatted and tested drive though. Preformatted drives seem to add about $30 to $40 to the cost. For just a drive, (no controller), this may not pay if you are willing to accept the hassle of returning a DOA drive and pay the extra postage. 2. Seagate makes some good ones and some bad ones. Don't buy one unless you have heard the current reviews. For example, I have heard good things about 4096's. I have not heard a thing about 251-1's, although on this group, no news is probably good news. Hope this helps - Mark (davis@cs.unc.edu)
jerry@starfish.Convergent.COM (Gerald Hawkins) (11/17/88)
From article <1757@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU>, by mcintyre@turing.cs.rpi.edu (David McIntyre): > I have had extensive exposure to the ST225, including selling about > 50 of them as a salesman for Computer Depot and owning two of them. > In addition, I have bought ST225's for my dad, for my girlfriend, > and have recommended them to many friends. > > To all of them I apologize deeply and sincerely. > ===> I MEAN THIS...DO NOT BUY A ST225. > Dave "mr question" McIntyre -- - Thanks, Dave. It is not often we get such experienced advice. Most people are too embarrassed to open up about getting shafted; and other people get burned, too. Now, I have an ST-225 in my AT clone. It works ok ... for now. But I'm worried. I'll do my backups, I promise. What do I need to do when it is time to buy a replacement drive, presumably a larger drive? The controller board in the machine also appears to be Seagate (I'll double check). Should I assume I must buy a new controller board, too? How about RLL controllers--are they worth whatever premium is charged for them? Rainy Days and Automatic Weapons Fire Alway Get Me Down. These opinions are mine. Jerry. (jerry@starfish.convergent.COM) -----
mhlevy@sbee.sunysb.edu (Mark Levy) (11/17/88)
I keep seeing how bad the 225's are. What about the 4096? I just got one
in my EVEREX 386 box, and would hate to think that the standard OEM drive is
a clunker.
--
Mark Levy { mhlevy@sbccvm.BITNET }
{ mhlevy@sbee.sunysb.edu }lane@dalcs.UUCP (John Wright/Dr. Pat Lane) (11/18/88)
I have from time to time seen series' of articles complaining about,
recommending against and generally bashing Seagate hard disk drives,
especially the 20Meg ST225.
Just to add my $.02 here. I have a locally built AT clone with an ST225
which has been functioning perfectly (knock on wood) for about 1-1/2 years
of *extensive* use.
ST225's seem to be very popular in clones around here. One company I work
for has about a dozen of them (also for ~1.5 years) and there have been
few if any hard disk related problems.
All the units I've had contact with have been fast (for what they are spec'd
at), quiet (one of the most common complaints against them being noise), and
reliable. This is not based on particularly vast experience or technical
knowlege but, all in all, I'm rather impressed with them.
I'm not connected in any way with Segate...just a satisfied customer.
--
John Wright ///////////////// Phone: 902-424-3805 or 902-424-6527
Post: c/o Dr Pat Lane, Biology Dept, Dalhousie U, Halifax N.S., CANADA B3H-4H8
Cdn/Bitnet: lane@cs.dal.cdn Arpa: lane%dalcs.uucp@uunet.uu.net
Uucp: lane@dalcs.uucp or {uunet,watmath,utai,garfield}!dalcs!lane kevinc@auvax.UUCP (Kevin "auric" Crocker) (11/19/88)
In article <5362@thorin.cs.unc.edu>, davis@clocs.cs.unc.edu (Mark Davis) writes: > 2. Seagate makes some good ones and some bad ones. Don't buy one > unless you have heard the current reviews. For example, I have heard > good things about 4096's. I have not heard a thing about 251-1's, > although on this group, no news is probably good news. > Hope this helps - Mark (davis@cs.unc.edu) Well, Mark, Both the 225 and the 251-1 have been causing me problems. I am not really satisfied with either of these drives. I've been using them for about five months and nothing has broken yet, but I still do not trust them. We tried to install a Conors drive that is supposed to have a zero fault rate but we couldn't get a controller to talk to it in my machine so we had to give up. I am still looking around for a GOOD replacement for the original that came with my Zenith 241.
carroll@s.cs.uiuc.edu (11/19/88)
RE : Seagate drives
I have a 4051 in my AT, and it's worked beautifully for about 2 years,
under some harsh conditions and two trips from Champaign (Il) to
Texas (and back). My CMI drives, which it replaced, have long since
become instructional aids/paperweights. I just got a 277R with an
RLL controller about 8 weeks ago, and apart from being overly
sensitive about with holes the mounting screws go in (put them in the
wrong ones, and you get to reformat the drive, oh boy!), it's worked
fine. On the other hand, I've got a friend whose had a bad experience
with Seagates. I'd have to agree with the person who said that Seagate's
had some quality control problems, but they seem to be getting better.
I'm also running a Micropolis 1335 under RLL in the same system,
and it's worked fine too.
Alan M. Carroll "How many danger signs did you ignore?
carroll@s.cs.uiuc.edu How many times had you heard it all before?" - AP&EW
CS Grad / U of Ill @ Urbana ...{ucbvax,pur-ee,convex}!s.cs.uiuc.edu!carrollpavlov@hscfvax.harvard.edu (G.Pavlov) (11/20/88)
In article <770@auvax.UUCP>, kevinc@auvax.UUCP (Kevin "auric" Crocker) writes: > > Well, Mark, Both the 225 and the 251-1 have been causing me problems. > I am not really satisfied with either of these drives. I've been using > them for about five months and nothing has broken yet, but I still do > not trust them. > What are the problems ? Have they been definitively attributed to the drives themselves (e.g., as opposed to controller or installation glitches) ? thanks, greg pavlov, fstrf, amherst, ny P.S.: we have and continue to use a mix of models from a mix of vendors, on ma- chines that range from several months to 5 years old (or, whenever the IBM XT came out). The ST225's have not done well: 2 have been replaced and one is flaky (periodically refuses to boot until the machine warms up some. Have done low-level reformat, etc, to no avail). Have not had any other Seagates fail, including 3-4 ST251-1's.
yuan@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Yuan 'Hacker' Chang) (11/21/88)
In article <676@hscfvax.harvard.edu> pavlov@hscfvax.harvard.edu (G.Pavlov) writes: >P.S.: we have and continue to use a mix of models from a mix of vendors, on ma- > chines that range from several months to 5 years old (or, whenever the > IBM XT came out). The ST225's have not done well: 2 have been replaced > and one is flaky (periodically refuses to boot until the machine warms up > some. Have done low-level reformat, etc, to no avail). Have not had any > other Seagates fail, including 3-4 ST251-1's. Interesting... The ST-225s seem to be the most perplexing drive of all. I think it's generally concluded that the older ST-225s have lots of problems. Yet I'm currently running a 3 year old ST-225 on my AT (fairly heavily used... ~ 20 hours/week). No trouble whatsoever. I'm just hoping that the ST-4096 I've ordered to replace it will last as long... 8) -- Yuan Chang "What can go wrong, did" UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!yuan ARPA: uhccux!yuan@nosc.MIL "Wouldn't you like to INTERNET: yuan@uhccux.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU be an _A_m_i_g_o_i_d too?!?"
bentrup@p.cs.uiuc.edu (11/22/88)
RE Seagate drives
/* Nov 17, 1988 by mhlevy@sbee.sunysb.edu */
>I keep seeing how bad the 225's are. What about the 4096?
We have 3 4096s: 6mo, 1yr and 2yrs old. Each has a 50MB partition used to
store a/d samples and the rest is for our development programs etc. The
2yr old model is erased and filled every day. Our programs access the data
about 3 more times before it's stored to tape. I had to
reformat it twice (3mo and 7mo ago). Just a couple of 'new' bad spots.
Other than that OK. The 1yr old disk is erased and filled 3-5 times a week
and has many (>20 full runs against the data / day)
and we haven't had any problems with it. The 6mo old disk is erased and
filled only about once a week but has plenty of files moving about in the
other partition. I'd say they get a fairly vigorous work out each day and
we're quite please with them. No affiliation with Seagate.
john
John Bentrup
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Department of Computer Science
arpa/internet bentrup@CS.UIUC.EDU
bitnet bentrup%uiucdcs.BITNET
usenet/UUCP net {pur-ee,convex,ihnp4}!uiucdcs!bentruprob@dhw68k.cts.com (Robert Kenyon) (11/23/88)
Re: ST225s making great paperweights and terrible drives.
I have installed about 30 of them. I have yet to have a problem
with any of them. I have replaced about 15 miniscribes due to noise
and general flakeyness. I currently have one of each in my personal
system and both are running with an RLL controller. No probs in 6 months,
I must be blessed.
The thing to remember about ST225s is that 500,000 (- about 6) installs
can't be all bad.
--
Help! I'm trapped in an IBM PC!!!!! !!!!!!CP MBI na ni deppart m'I !pleH
Robert Kenyon - {trwrb,hplabs}!felix!dhw68k!rob - InterNet: rob@dhw68k.cts.comgrig8348@fredonia.UUCP (LoyEllen Griggs) (11/29/88)
I wrote earlier and said I have two ST225's running piggy-back with no
problems. Actually, the company I work for has four. No problems, like
I said.
However, this weekend we finally figured out what's wrong with the ST251
I was trying to install in an AT. It's having electrical shorts on board.
At least that's what the repair expert said, and he told me not to bother
trying to install it anymore. Since it was a temporary replacement given
freely by a friend, we simple returned it and suffer with our not-up-to-speed
Tulin.
To me, this is wierd. Is it really? Comments on the disk--is it really
history?
--
(They are (flying airplanes)) --Elaine Rich, A.I. LoyEllen
(They (are flying) airplanes) SUNY @ Fredonia
(They are (flying planing tools)) fredonia!grig8348@cs.buffalo.edu
(They (are flying) planing tools) {decvax,rutgers}!sunybcs!fredonia!grig8348