burton@mitisft.Convergent.COM (Philip Burton) (11/12/88)
Help me select a laser printer for my wife's office-at-home. Her business
doesn't have high volume requirements. The primary reason for buying a
printer is to avoid the inconvenience and time-waste of a laser printer
service bureau. This is a big purchase.
You can agree with my choice, or challenge my assumptions. Tell me about
the "gotchas", or the store with the best pricing. What do you think about
the possibility of high-quality, low-priced Postscript clones, and the
impacts on printer pricing and resale values.
Thanks.
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The final candidate printers (and best local prices for base unit):
HP LaserJet 2 ($1650)
Apple LaserWriter II NT ($3695)
QMS 810PS ($4290)
All three printers use the same Canon SX printer engine.
I believe that I should get one of the Postscript printers because the
LaserJet 2 is too limited for my needs without expensive memory upgrades,
and lots of font cartridges and soft fonts. (I can't rely on the Ventura
built-in fonts because these can't be used by other applications.) Also,
I don't have much confidence that public domain or shareware fonts will
meet my needs for high-quality output.
I've used the Apple II NT at service bureaus, and like it very much.
The QMS 810 has some useful features over the Apple Laserwriter, but I'm
concerned about price, the actual usefulness of the LaserJet emulation and
the quality of the PS Executive software.
My system:
PC AT with 2.5 MB extended memory, EGA.
Current printers are Epson FX-80 and Diablo 630, on LPT1 and LPT2.
Modem and mouse on COM1 and COM2.
The key applications:
Course materials (notebooks and handouts) for my wife's clients.
Proposals and other correspondence to clients and prospective clients.
Output is mostly text using different fonts and typefaces, with some simple
graphics and special characters like bullets and arrowheads ("dingbats").
Must print on envelopes.
Software to use laser printer:
Ventura Publisher.
MS Word or Wordperfect in future. Currently using Wordstar (!!!)
Excel and 1-2-3.
Dbase III Plus.
Various DOS and PC utility programs with "dumb printer" output capability.
DOS PrintScreen output.
My assumptions and concerns about each printer:
For each printer, I've listed my positives and negatives. Please comment
liberally, especially on negatives I've omitted.
HP LaserJet 2:
+ Lowest price for base unit
+ Parallel port
+ Excellent application printer driver support
+ Excellent third party hardware and software support
+ Reputation for reliability
- Bit-map font system is inflexible
- Big expense for memory upgrade, and font cartridge and soft fonts
- Even with upgrade, still not a Postscript printer
- Postscript upgrade raises total cost above Apple II NT
- Disk storage required for bit-map fonts
- Lack of Diablo 630 or other printer emulations
Apple LaserWriter II NT:
+ De facto industry standard for Postscript and desk-top publishing
+ Highly recommended by popular press
+ Cheaper than QMS 810
+ Handles legal size paper and envelopes
- No upgradeability without complete replacement of controller ($2000 +)
- No parallel port
- Serial port is very slow
- PC Appletalk connection is expensive
- No Laserjet emulation (for non-Postscript output applications)
- Diablo 630 emulation can't be selected from PC by software
- Can't mix Postscript and non-Postscript application output without
manual intervention at printer to set hard-to-reach switches
- Diablo 630 emulation is 10 pitch only
QMS 810 PS:
+ Supports full Postscript (rev 47, 35 fonts)
+ Parallel port
+ 2 MB RAM standard
+ Can be expanded to 3 (?) MB
+ Handles legal size paper and envelopes
+ Diablo 630 emulation, including 12 pitch
+ HP LaserJet+ emulation, including downloaded fonts
+ Software support for changing printer emulations
+ Faster CPU than Apple II NT
- Cost is about $600 over Apple II NT
- No third-party support for memory upgrades
- Hidden "gotchas" from a product with smaller market share
- Potentially lower resale value than Apple II NT
Please post to the net, preferably to comp.sys.ibm.pc. If you prefer, send
e-mail, or call me. I'll call back, if necessary.
Phil Burton 408 435 3791
Convergent Technologies burton@mitisft.Convergent.COMalexande@drivax.UUCP (Mark Alexander) (11/14/88)
In article <501@mitisft.Convergent.COM> burton@mitisft.Convergent.COM (Philip Burton) writes: >Help me select a laser printer for my wife's office-at-home. We have a QMS-PS 810, and it's a very nice printer. It's reasonably fast (16 MHz CPU), has a parallel interface (fast downloading), and the output looks good. I have seen it advertised through mail-order houses as low as $3200. Our printer stopped working after a couple of months. The dealer (MicroAge) gave no help, so I called QMS directly. Their service was great -- they always returned calls, and the problem got fixed pretty quickly. (It was a bad PROM on the PostScript board.) Another alternative for cheap PostScript is the NEC LC-890. You can get this for about $3200 now. According to several magazine reviews, it is a bit slower than than most PostScript printers, but is great otherwise. One nice feature is that you don't have to throw away the toner cartridge -- you just refill it. -- Mark Alexander (UUCP: amdahl!drivax!alexande) "Bob-ism: the Faith that changes to meet YOUR needs." --Bob (as heard on PHC)
allanh@sco.COM (Allan J. Heim) (11/17/88)
It really boils down to a question of what you want to do with it.
The HP LaserJet series of printers were intended as all-purpose,
general office use printers. Their low cost (compared to the Apple
printers) reflects this.
The Apple LaserWriters, on the other hand, are optimized for working
with graphics and fancy text manipulation. Since such work requires
more from the printer's compute engine, the engine has to be more
capable, and thus costs more.
If you aren't planning on doing much graphics work, and just need
something to spit out forms, letters, and the occasional graphics
bitmap, get an HP. LaserJets make fine daisywheel-replacement,
text-oriented printers.
If you're going to be making much use of Ventura and want to do nice
graphics, or have a program that does sophisticated text work (that
uses a lot of fonts, and does kerning and other things), get an Apple
LaserWriter II NT.
Speaking from my own experience, the Apple NTX printers are absolutely
wonderful. We do a lot of typesetting work on our printers, and we
import a lot of graphics, so we really need the extra power the NTX
provides. We've had two for a few months now, and the beggars just go
and go. They jam once a week or so, they don't break, are light, look
good, and never stop. If you can afford one, get one. If you can't,
get an NT; I assume an NT is as good, if somewhat less capable.
But if you're just looking for a fast, quiet text printer, get an HP.
al
--
Allan J. Heim @ The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. (408) 458-1422
(allanh@sco.com ; ...{decvax!microsoft,ucbvax!ucscc,uunet}!sco!allanh)phil@diablo.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (11/18/88)
In article <1735@scolex> allanh@sco.COM (Allan J. Heim) writes: |Speaking from my own experience, the Apple NTX printers are absolutely |wonderful. We do a lot of typesetting work on our printers, and we Let's not get carried away. 300 dpi laser printers are very nice, but they are not wonderful. My eyes aren't very good but I can certainly see jaggies, especially when a Times Roman style font is used. 300 dpi laser printers do word processing. Calling it "typesetting" shows satisfaction with a mediocre level of quality. -- Phil Ngai, phil@diablo.amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil
pavlov@hscfvax.harvard.edu (G.Pavlov) (11/18/88)
In article <23572@amdcad.AMD.COM>, phil@diablo.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: > > Let's not get carried away. 300 dpi laser printers are very nice, but > they are not wonderful. My eyes aren't very good but I can certainly > see jaggies, especially when a Times Roman style font is used. 300 dpi > laser printers do word processing........ > What I (believe) that I have noticed is that HP cartridge and soft font sets produce "smoother" output on an HP LaserJet than Postscript on an equivalent (such as Apple NTX) resolution printer. greg pavlov, fstrf, amherst, ny
bkliewer@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Bradley Dyck Kliewer) (11/19/88)
In article <670@hscfvax.harvard.edu> pavlov@hscfvax.harvard.edu (G.Pavlov) writes: > What I (believe) that I have noticed is that HP cartridge and soft font > sets produce "smoother" output on an HP LaserJet than Postscript on an > equivalent (such as Apple NTX) resolution printer. This is not too surprising. Many of the bit mapped fonts use a patterned edge that fools the eye into seeing a smooth line. On the other hand, I've seen several fonts (notably the larger point sizes) which do not use the full 300 dpi resolution of the printer. Bradley Dyck Kliewer Hacking... bkliewer@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu It's not just an adventure It's my job!
phil@diablo.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (11/19/88)
In article <670@hscfvax.harvard.edu> pavlov@hscfvax.harvard.edu (G.Pavlov) writes: | What I (believe) that I have noticed is that HP cartridge and soft font | sets produce "smoother" output on an HP LaserJet than Postscript on an | equivalent (such as Apple NTX) resolution printer. How can this be? Don't they use the same Canon marking engine? By the way, I took a 10X loupe to our Apple LW output and the jaggies I see are indeed the dots. Our LW is working fine. The jaggies are identical among the same letters, that is, all the "o"s look alike. I hope you're not comparing Helvetica fonts on the LP with Times Roman fonts on the Apple. -- Phil Ngai, phil@diablo.amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (11/19/88)
This is all false. The LaserJet series are fully capable of being used for complex text, kerning and graphics. Aside from being a lot cheaper, they are usually considerably faster than PostScript printers. Postscript printers do have some nice facilities, such as: Fonts that can be scaled, and printed at any angle. More graphics primatives in the printer. A larger selection of standard fonts. HP compatible printers with only 512K of ram can't do a full page of 300 dot bitmap graphics. I have never wanted to do this, myself, so I don't consider it a restriction, but some might. You can add ram to these printers -- there are a lot of kits. A wide range of cartridge fonts downloadable softfonts are available for HP compatibel printers. One could easily buy everything you would need for general use for a fraction of the money saved. The one argument against the HPs is lazy DTP software. Much software just doesn't know how to take advantage of the HPCL, and you often find people thinking that the printer is slow or too limited in memory because it can't do a complex ventura page with a lot of softfonts loaded. Rest assured, the DTP software is broken, not the printer. This may be no consolation if you are set on given software, of course. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
pavlov@hscfvax.harvard.edu (G.Pavlov) (11/19/88)
In article <23582@amdcad.AMD.COM>, phil@diablo.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: > In article <670@hscfvax.harvard.edu> pavlov@hscfvax.harvard.edu (G.Pavlov) writes: > | What I (believe) that I have noticed is that HP cartridge and soft font > | sets produce "smoother" output on an HP LaserJet than Postscript on an > | equivalent (such as Apple NTX) resolution printer. > > How can this be? Don't they use the same Canon marking engine?....... > I hope you're not comparing Helvetica fonts on the LP with Times Roman > fonts on the Apple. > No, I have seen plenty of samples of both (Helv. and TR from both). I can almost always tell if it was produced via PostScript. Maybe it is because PostScript fonts are scalable and the HP cartridge/soft fonts aren't. That gave HP a chance to "touch up" what is a constant set of values. I really dunno. greg pavlov fstrf, amherst (NOT Harvard), ny
prc@ERBE.SE (Robert Claeson) (11/22/88)
In article <23572@amdcad.AMD.COM>, phil@diablo.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: > Let's not get carried away. 300 dpi laser printers are very nice, but > they are not wonderful. My eyes aren't very good but I can certainly > see jaggies, especially when a Times Roman style font is used. 300 dpi > laser printers do word processing. Calling it "typesetting" shows > satisfaction with a mediocre level of quality. I have one of Agfa's 400x400 dpi PostScript printers on loan. They are absolutely wonderful. 12 or 18 ppm (effective speed, depending on model), parallel, serial (up to 76.8 Kbps) and AppleTalk, 73 fonts *standard*, 6 MB RAM and a 20 MB hard disk *standard*. I recommend it. -- Robert Claeson ERBE DATA AB rclaeson@ERBE.SE
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (11/30/88)
NEC makes a printer that speaks Postscript and LaserJet languages. He
uses it to do technical publishing for a living and has had no trouble
yet. I don't have the number handy, but a NEC dealer might be able to
help.
--
bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa)
{uunet | philabs}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me