norm@oglvee.UUCP (Norman Joseph) (01/18/89)
I've decided to take the plunge and upgrade my old PC XT, and I
would hope to solicit suggestions and advice from those of you who
have gone through this experience.
Those without the patience for such postings should hit 'n' now...
Thanks for listening...
While I nearly always get to scan this group, I would hope to elicit
e-mail responses rather than clutter the net. Others who are curious
about what I find out can send me mail and I'll reply.
I design and code for a living, but I'm certainly a neophyte as far
as PC hardware is concerned, and feel pretty much helpless when wading
through issues of _Computer Shopper_, trying to decide which upgrade
path I should take.
I know there have been similar postings of the form "whats the
best <insert favorite widget here>", but none of those seemed to help
me decide which way I should go or what to watch out for.
Let me start by describing my current system, enumerating my
"wish list", and posing some questions:
MY SYSTEM:
----------
IBM PC/XT (true blue) w/640k memory. Some of this memory is on the
- motherboard, and some is on a plug-in card. (Maybe this goes
- without saying, I -told- you I was a neophyte :^).
- The display uses a CGA card (IBM's, I think).
- The monitor is a Sears special (stop laughing), with a built-in
- TV tuner, VCR and RGB inputs (I'm hoping to retire this baby
- to the family room soon an get a -real- monitor).
- One 5 1/4" 360k full height floppy drive (probably standard IBM).
- One 20M hard drive (heritage unknown).
I didn't buy this system -- I got it in lieu of pay when the company
I used to work for went belly-up -- so I don't have anything like a
service contract.
If you want or need to know more specifics, just ask. I can always
open 'er up and poke around inside (although I'm not sure I'll know
what I'm looking for ;-).
MY WISH LIST: in descending order of (subjective) importance
-------------
* Better color graphics: EGA at least (VGA if its feasible ($$$)).
* An appropriate color monitor for the new card.
* A faster CPU (can you say "Bow-Wow"? I knew you could).
* A reliable, fast 20-30 meg hard drive for when -this- one
goes south (I know it will, and at the -worst- possible time
I'm sure).
* And (of course) maximum bang from minimum bucks!
In other words, a -brand new system-! If I were doing a system from
scratch, I might go a different route; but I have this system and I
don't have a big budget (hell, I don't even know -what- to budget for
yet! That's why I'm posting!). So, I'd like to be able to keep as
much of the present system as is feasible/usable/bearable.
Also, it would be easier on the pocketbook if the upgrade could be
done piecemeal -- a bit at a time. I could probably afford a few
more $$$s if I could s-t-r-e-c-h out the outlays.
MY QUESTIONS:
-------------
1) XTs can be such DOGS!! Whats a good way to speed them up?
Accelerator cards, new motherboards, a new -box-?
2) What would this imply for the cards I currently have in my box?
(i.e. disk controller, extra memory, CGA...) Would they still
be usable with a new motherboard, for instance?
3) Will the applications that run ok under CGA still work properly
under EGA or VGA?
4) I see EGA monitors/cards in ads that say 640x350 & 640x480.
Whats the significance? Will the same applications run just
as correctly on both?
5) Should I worry about my power supply (if I keep my box)?
6) All my software is on 5 1/4" 360k floppies. I would like the
added flexibility of a high density (1.2 meg) floppy drive, or
possibly a 3 1/2" drive. Are these equally feasible choices?
7) Of the skads and skads of hardware ads out there, how do I
know what I should be looking for for -my- system. How do
I know if a certain hard disk, for example, will work with
the disk controller card I have now without buying it, plugging
it in and trying it (similar questions for the other things
I'm interested in)?
There are others that I know I'll think of as soon as I post this.
I know I may be asking a lot all at once, but I would appreciate
any suggestions/advice from anyone with experience about any of these
topics I've hit on. This is really an area where I could stand to
learn a -lot-. I simply don't know where to begin.
I throw myself to the mercy of the Net!
P.S. Thanks in advance to all who reply.
--
Norm Joseph - Oglevee Computer System, Inc.
UUCP: ...!{pitt,cgh}!amanue!oglvee!norm
"Mate, that parrot wouldn't *VROOM* if you put four million volts through it!"hundt@paul.rutgers.edu (Thomas M. Hundt) (01/19/89)
OK, first step is to figure out what your present system is worth.
Try to sell it for, say, $800 in your local paper, with or without
the hard drive. Actually you should be able to get $1000 with hard
disk and color. My roommate sold his PC clone for $700 [Adam, are
you listening?]. He then took the money and bought an XT clone
with EGA.
What I myself did was sell my complete XT clone system, hacker-style
CGA monitor (caseless) and hard disk and all for about $900, through
misc.forsale. Then I bought an AT clone via Computer Shopper.
I would suggest to you to do the same. I know, it's a bigger shock
and bigger pain; the crunch is this: How long can you do without any
system? If it's 2 weeks or more, no problem. Depending on where you
are in PA, (eg. if near NJ there are some clone dealers you can go to)
you may be able to buy a new replacement the next day.
Remember, you get more money for your stuff as a package, and by
selling to those who have never heard of Computer Shopper!
Since you want to get rid of your hard disk ("I know it's going to
die, soon") you could buy a new one right now. There's an ST225 on
misc.forsale for $125, why not buy that? This sort of thing comes
around quite often.
What you want in an AT:
- case, 200W (min.) power supply, keyboard (get the enhanced style)
motherboard: 640k, 10 MHz (most cost-effective) switchable to 8 or 6
MHz (this is the usual configuration)
- hard/floppy controller: safest bet is Western Digital, so you'll
always be compatible (eg. 1002-WA2 or slightly newer one). I wouldn't
get RLL unless you have a drive to use it with already in mind.
- HD drive (ie. 1.2 M floppy)
- 360k drive (if you want to format 360k floppies and be able to
guarantee they will work on someone else's 360k) This can be a
hold-over from your old machine ("OK, I'll go down to $800 but I'll
have to keep one of the floppies").
get either
- multi I/O board (parallel, serial [optional 2nd serial], game ports)
or
- multi I/O with RAM capability (for extended memory --- if you want
it)
You wanted EGA. Now, you can either get standard, plain EGA (least
cost) or fancy, extended EGA ("EEGA"). The latter may require a more
expensive monitor (ie. multi-sync or other variable-frequency). You
can get these either new or used, eg. from misc.forsale.
Good luck
-Tom
--
RRRRRR Thomas M. Hundt (aka hundt@occlusal.rutgers.edu)
RR RR Gradual Student --- Electrical & Computer Engineering
RR RR Rutgers University 201/932-5843(Lab)
RRRRR 272 Hamilton St. #96 201/247-6723(H)
RR RR New Brunswick, NJ 08901
RRR RRR Famous last words: "The virus ate it."bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) (01/20/89)
Sorry to post this to the entire net, but mail bounced ... Good luck on your upgrade. I'll try to help out a bit ... >MY WISH LIST: in descending order of (subjective) importance >------------- > * Better color graphics: EGA at least (VGA if its feasible ($$$)). > * An appropriate color monitor for the new card. > * A faster CPU (can you say "Bow-Wow"? I knew you could). > * A reliable, fast 20-30 meg hard drive for when -this- one > goes south (I know it will, and at the -worst- possible time > I'm sure). > * And (of course) maximum bang from minimum bucks! > > Also, it would be easier on the pocketbook if the upgrade could be >done piecemeal -- a bit at a time. I could probably afford a few >more $$$s if I could s-t-r-e-c-h out the outlays. > >MY QUESTIONS: >------------- > 1) XTs can be such DOGS!! Whats a good way to speed them up? > Accelerator cards, new motherboards, a new -box-? Personally, in the current computing environment, I don't think it is worth getting accelerator cards unless you have a system which requires the old bus. This usually applies only to special-purpose equipment (laboratory peripherals type stuff, or some of the older computer slide generation hardware/software). The accelerators _just_ speed up your system and don't allow you to run new operating systems like Unix and OS/2 and VM/386 and ... (take your pick). That leaves motherboards and new boxes. In general, the most cost-effective upgrade is to get a 286 motherboard. The 386 motherboards are astronomically expensive for a small performance gain (of course, if you need a 386 or are going to run it in 32 bit mode this does not necessarily apply). The 386 mother- boards are almost as expensive as buying a barebones 386 system with box, power supply, keyboard, and high-density floppy, and if that's what you are considering I would recommend biting the bullet and getting the entire new system and selling the old one in one fell swoop - I think you will get a better return on your $ (Of course if you can get a good deal ... by my computation you shouldn't spend more than $1000-$1200 for a 386 board before you are paying more than the retail cost of a 386 motherboard contained in a box). The 286 motherboards however are priced reasonably and are a logical upgrade path. The biggest problem with either a new box or a new motherboard is what to do with old cards. Your hard disk controller is -highly- likely to need replacing (and likely your floppy controller) for many of the 286 and 386 machines. This is primarily a BIOS question - some (such as the Hauppauge 386 motherboard) support both AT type hard/floppy controllers and the XT type hard/floppy controllers; some do not. You will have to ask the manufacturer. You will need to replace the floppy controller anyway if you want to support high-density floppies. Likewise you will not have a use for your add-on memory card. Fortunately (except for the add-on memory card) the cost of new cards is not high - a new AT-type hard/floppy controller is on the order of $100. > 2) What would this imply for the cards I currently have in my box? > (i.e. disk controller, extra memory, CGA...) Would they still > be usable with a new motherboard, for instance? > 3) Will the applications that run ok under CGA still work properly > under EGA or VGA? > 4) I see EGA monitors/cards in ads that say 640x350 & 640x480. > Whats the significance? Will the same applications run just > as correctly on both? Your CGA would likely work on a new motherboard or a new box - the only question is whether the bus speed would be too fast for it, since it might have been a fairly old vintage card & some of the faster machines run the bus at 12 MHz or so. In general applications that run under CGA will run under EGA or VGA, but this is not universal. BASIC will for example work (though IBM BASIC will probably NOT run on a clone box or motherboard ... you would have to get GW-Basic (the generic version of Microsoft BASIC) or QuickBasic or something else like that if you care). Flight simulator will probably NOT work if you have an older copy of Flight Simulator that didn't know about the EGA/VGA. Similarly some older copies of Sidekick had problems when the EGA and VGA came out (though recent copies run fine). Normal EGA resolution is 640x350 - 640 pixels across by 350 pixels high. Normal VGA resolution is 640x480 (plus the VGA adds several useful graphics modes). The VGA resolution is superior not only because of the additional resolution and additional colors, but because pixels are -square-, which eliminates astigmatism in graphics. (this is when a horizontal line and a vertical line do not have the same brightness because the horizontal line is "thicker"). A number of graphics board vendors came up with a version of the EGA that had the additional resolution of the VGA (and eliminated the astigmatism) by adding modes which had 640x480 like the VGA modes. Unfortunately they are incompatible with the VGA, and much software does not support the higher resolution. If you get such a board you will want to know whether drivers are available for any packages you want to run. The 640x480 EGA systems seem to have lost much of their point with the advent of the VGA - they are nearly as expensive (requiring a fancier monitor than the 640x350 boards) as a VGA without delivering all the features and performance of a real VGA. I would go for either a 640x350 EGA or a real VGA rather than the enhanced EGA. Either of these will probably mean you get a new monitor ... which will cost around $500 for a color analog or multisync, somewhat less if you go for standard EGA. > 5) Should I worry about my power supply (if I keep my box)? > 6) All my software is on 5 1/4" 360k floppies. I would like the > added flexibility of a high density (1.2 meg) floppy drive, or > possibly a 3 1/2" drive. Are these equally feasible choices? If you don't put a lot of new hardware in the box, an XT power supply is probably adequate. This will depend in part on what the power draw of the motherboard is -- a 386 is likely to draw more, for example. As noted, the high density floppies will require a new floppy/hard disk controller (on a standard AT configuration, the floppy controller and the hard disk controller are combined into one card, unlike the XT). Essentially all 286 and 386 boxes and motherboards have a BIOS which will support the high density floppy (unlike the XT which requires a BIOS upgrade to support the high density, as well as a new controller since the original controller can't deal with the high density). Some 286's and 386's will allow you to keep your old controller cards, though obviously you don't get high-density floppies and may not get the best hard disk performance. > 7) Of the skads and skads of hardware ads out there, how do I > know what I should be looking for for -my- system. How do > I know if a certain hard disk, for example, will work with > the disk controller card I have now without buying it, plugging > it in and trying it (similar questions for the other things > I'm interested in)? Um, well, you can ask around (like on the net or people you know). Your hard disk controller may have difficulties running a lot of disks (the typical XT hard disk uses an ST506 interface and an MFM recording technique, however different disks have different numbers of tracks and cyls and some controllers can't deal with that). It sounds likely that you do not have a standard IBM controller, unless your XT was one of the later models produced (early XT controllers couldn't support anything but one particular 10 MB hard disk configuration). If you plan to upgrade your motherboard you will probably be buying a new controller anyway. BTW, your old hard disk will likely work with the new controller (though you will want to know what configuration to tell it to use -- use the 'disk information' features of a package like the Norton Utilities or the Mace Utilities which will tell you that kind of info). However, it will probably mean you will have to -reformat- your disk!!! A real pain. _Computer Shopper_ can be a pretty overwhelming magazine! I would want to be pretty careful about buying things from some of the places that advertize there though ... though most are OK, there are some rather sleazy outfits out there. You should try to locate references (like reviews) and not buy from "new" companies (companies that haven't been advertizing for very long) if you don't have much experience with PC's -- I know some people who have been burned -badly- trying to shave every penny off the cost of a system & who had significant computer experience but little experience with PCs or the PC marketplace (which is a bit, um, shark-infested). PC Network in particular is a place to stay -away- from. Finally, you may do better to get a complete new system and sell the old one for what you can get for it - usually you can sell a complete system for more than you can sell the parts, and usually you can get a better deal on a complete new system than buying individual parts (I know, it doesn't make much sense, but the problem is that you are on the wrong end of the distribution chain to get a good price for the parts - either new ones you are buying or old ones you are trying to get rid of). If your pocketbook can't stand all that at once, it makes some sense to upgrade the system piecemeal (a new motherboard and a better graphics adaptor/monitor can do wonders for a system even without better hard/ floppy disks, more memory, etc, etc). Good luck! Bruce C. Wright