mms@sordid.Sun.COM (Michael Silverstein) (03/02/89)
In article <3308@silver.bacs.indiana.edu> burleigh@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (frank burleigh) writes: *> *> Finally, when I use VI the 'h' (move left) key removes characters from *> the screen (ick), but fortunately does not delete them. What have I got *> set wrong? I've noticed other VT102 flakiness, mostly characters *> disappearing from the screen. I also like Telix very much, but have had problems with the VT102 emulation. Not exactly the one mentioned above, but the "r" command (replace char) leaves a blank; then redrawing the screen with ^L shows the new char right where it should be. My termcap works fine with other VT102 emulators (I've never tried it on a real VT102), so I don't think that's the problem. There are a few other instances of flakey behaviour -- nothing serious, but food for the next release. I've tried to reach Exis via their bulletin board, but it's busy even at the weirdest of hours. Perhaps they are listening. *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=* | /\/\ike Silverstein | This can't be deja vu. Things are more like | | sun!mms -or- mms@sun.com | they are now, than they've ever been before! | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM ([Karl Denninger]) (03/03/89)
>Response 1 of 1 (2095) by mms at sordid on Thu 2 Mar 89 14:2 >[Michael Silverstein] >*> Finally, when I use VI the 'h' (move left) key removes characters from >*> the screen (ick), but fortunately does not delete them. What have I got >*> set wrong? I've noticed other VT102 flakiness, mostly characters >*> disappearing from the screen. > >I also like Telix very much, but have had problems with the VT102 emulation. >Not exactly the one mentioned above, but the "r" command (replace char) >leaves a blank; then redrawing the screen with ^L shows the new char right >where it should be. My termcap works fine with other VT102 emulators (I've >never tried it on a real VT102), so I don't think that's the problem. I've got the same problem with a few of our customers and their myriad terminal emulators. The problems all come about with Unix and Xenix applications that use a terminfo or termcap entry for a REAL terminal of some description. I'm constantly SHOCKED at the number of emulators that don't do the job 100% -- some of the ones that I've run into with regards to VT102 compatibility are Telix, Procomm (PLUS and 2.4.2), and others. Our applications tend to be REAL demanding on terminal capabilities. We use these things for both VAX/VMS work (where complete compatibility is CRITICAL) and on Unix systems (which expect a "real" terminal as well). It's real nasty to have to tell a customer "well, you'll have to get some properly-working terminal software" and hear them say "but it works everywhere else!" I would think it would be in the terminal manufacturer's interest to go after those people who write programs (especially shareware or commercial!) that emulate their terminal types improperly, and then brand it as a "VT100" emulator. After all, it does detract from the perceived value of the real article! BTW: In my experience ZCOMM is one of the FEW that gets it completely right with regards to VT100 emulation; I've not noticed a glitch yet. It's only limitation is in the hardware (no double-high/wide characters). -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, ddsw1!karl) Data: [+1 312 566-8912], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality solutions at a fair price"
wales@valeria.cs.ucla.edu (Rich Wales) (03/03/89)
In article <3308@silver.bacs.indiana.edu> burleigh@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (frank burleigh) writes: Finally, when I use VI the 'h' (move left) key removes characters from the screen (ick), but fortunately does not delete them. What have I got set wrong? I've noticed other VT102 flakiness, mostly characters disap- pearing from the screen. In article <91936@sun.uucp> mms@sun.UUCP (Michael Silverstein) writes: I also like Telix very much, but have had problems with the VT102 emulation. Not exactly the one mentioned above, but the "r" command (replace char) leaves a blank; then redrawing the screen with ^L shows the new char right where it should be. My termcap works fine with other VT102 emulators (I've never tried it on a real VT102), so I don't think that's the problem. Make sure you have "non-destructive" backspace mode set, both in the main options menu and also in any dialing directory entry you use that sets VT102 mode. Also, there is at least one bug in Telix 3.11's VT102 emulation that I am aware of. The "insert character" code -- ESC [ @ -- is incorrectly treated as a no-op. If you add an explicit character count -- i.e., ESC [ 1 @ -- it works. I am including below a modified "termcap" entry which seems to work satisfactorily with Telix 3.11's VT102 emulation. I would welcome any comments or suggestions for improvement. Note that I changed the "emphasis" parameters ("so" and "us") to use boldface (attribute 1), instead of reverse video (attribute 7) or underlining (attribute 4). Also, since I turned off the status line, I changed the number of lines ("li") from 24 to 25. Finally, I took out all the null-padding (not needed!), and added a "delete character" code (which, for some reason, wasn't in the VT102 "termcap" I started out with; maybe it isn't accepted by a "real" VT102?). Does anyone know when the next release of Telix (3.12?) will come out? # # VT102 termcap entry, modified for Telix (1/11/89): # Added: :dc=\E[P: # :ic=\E[1@: # Removed: All null-padding # Changed: :li=#25: (was :li=#24:) # Changed: :so=\E[1m: (was :so=2\E[7m:) # Changed: :us=\E[1m: (was :us=2\E[4m:) # # NOTE: "\E[@" should work as "insert character" -- but Telix 3.11 # treats this as a no-op and will do the operation only if a # count of "1" is explicitly inserted. # dy|telix|telix-vt102|dec vt102:\ :bs:\ :cd=\E[J:\ :ce=\E[K:\ :cl=\E[;H\E[2J:\ :cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:\ :co#80:\ :cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:\ :dc=\E[P:\ :do=^J:\ :ho=\E[H:\ :ic=\E[1@:\ :is=\E[1;24r\E[24;1H:\ :k1=\EOP:\ :k2=\EOQ:\ :k3=\EOR:\ :k4=\EOS:\ :kb=^H:\ :kd=\EOB:\ :ke=\E[?1l\E>:\ :kl=\EOD:\ :kr=\EOC:\ :ks=\E[?1h\E=:\ :ku=\EOA:\ :le=^H:\ :li#25:\ :mb=\E[5m:\ :md=\E[1m:\ :me=\E[m:\ :mr=\E[7m:\ :nd=\E[C:\ :pt:\ :rc=\E8:\ :rs=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h:\ :sc=\E7:\ :se=\E[m:\ :so=\E[1m:\ :sr=\EM:\ :ue=\E[m:\ :up=\E[A:\ :us=\E[1m:\ :ve=\E[?7h:\ :vs=\E[?7l:\ :vt#3: # # (end of termcap entry for "telix") # -- Rich Wales // UCLA Computer Science Department // +1 (213) 825-5683 3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, California 90024-1596 // USA wales@CS.UCLA.EDU ...!(uunet,ucbvax,rutgers)!cs.ucla.edu!wales "The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank."
bga@bgalli.eds.com (Billy G. Allie) (03/03/89)
In article <91936@sun.uucp>, mms@sordid.Sun.COM (Michael Silverstein) writes: < In article <3308@silver.bacs.indiana.edu> frank burleigh writes: < *> < *> Finally, when I use VI the 'h' (move left) key removes characters from < *> the screen (ick), but fortunately does not delete them. What have I got < *> set wrong? I've noticed other VT102 flakiness, mostly characters < *> disappearing from the screen. < < I also like Telix very much, but have had problems with the VT102 emulation. < Not exactly the one mentioned above, but the "r" command (replace char) < leaves a blank; then redrawing the screen with ^L shows the new char right < where it should be. My termcap works fine with other VT102 emulators (I've < never tried it on a real VT102), so I don't think that's the problem. I believe you will find that you have the type of backspace used set to DESTRUCTIVE. This causes the character that is backed over to be replaced by a space. You need to change the type of backspace to NON-DESTUCTIVE, which will cause the 'h' and 'r' vi commands to work as expected. -- ____ | Billy G. Allie | Internet..: bga@bgalli.eds.com | /| | 7436 Hartwell | UUCP......: uunet!{mcf|edsews}!bgalli!bga |-/-|----- | Dearborn, MI 48126 | Compuserve: 76337,2061 |/ |LLIE | (313) 582-1540 | Genie.....: BGALLIE
brian@ncrcan.Toronto.NCR.COM (Brian Onn) (03/05/89)
In article <91936@sun.uucp> mms@sun.UUCP (Michael Silverstein) writes: >In article <3308@silver.bacs.indiana.edu> burleigh@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (frank burleigh) writes: >*> >*> Finally, when I use VI the 'h' (move left) key removes characters from >*> the screen (ick), but fortunately does not delete them. What have I got >*> set wrong? I've noticed other VT102 flakiness, mostly characters >*> disappearing from the screen. > >I also like Telix very much, but have had problems with the VT102 emulation. >Not exactly the one mentioned above, but the "r" command (replace char) >leaves a blank; then redrawing the screen with ^L shows the new char right >where it should be. My termcap works fine with other VT102 emulators (I've >never tried it on a real VT102), so I don't think that's the problem. > >There are a few other instances of flakey behaviour -- nothing serious, >but food for the next release. I've tried to reach Exis via their bulletin >board, but it's busy even at the weirdest of hours. Perhaps they are listening. Actually, what's happening in this case is that VI is backspacing over the characters you just entered, and Telix is set up for a destructive backspace! In the setup screen, ALT-O, Terminal Options, you can turn destructive backspace on or off at a global level. However, if you use one of the dial screen entries to get access to your system, then there is also a per-entry setting for destructive backspace, that overrides the default global settings. In the Dialer, ALT-D, Edit menu, you will see a line that says 'Rcvd BS is dest'. This defaults to ON, and you have to turn it OFF for access to most Unix systems. Granted, there are some problems with Telix 3.11, but this isn't one of them. Brian. -- +-------------------+--------------------------------------------------------+ | Brian Onn | UUCP:..!{uunet!attcan, watmath!utai}!lsuc!ncrcan!brian | | NCR Canada Ltd. | INTERNET: Brian.Onn@Toronto.NCR.COM | +-------------------+--------------------------------------------------------+