galvin-peter@CS.Yale.EDU (Peter Galvin) (05/02/89)
The saga continues...you might recall that I ordered a replacement 386 motherboard from Micro 1 in February, and since it hadn't been sent in March I cancelled my order and asked for them to credit my charge card. Being untrusting I also had the credit card company stop payment on that charge under Mail Order Laws (I hope they did that, but I'm still fighting with them about it for reasons I won't go into). Anyway My April charge card bill arrived and still no sign of the charge credit. I called Micro 1 today and asked for the scoop, and they informed be that they are now under Chapter 11 bankrupcy protection and that I'd be receiving a letter. They did say that they are under new management and expect to make good on all orders and money owed, but didn't say when...not to say that I believe them. But when I called sales they still seemed to be taking orders. So, I'd recommend NOT ORDERING from MICRO 1 until they've come out of bankrupcy. I'm surprised that they can still take orders while under court protection (if in fact they were...that's just my feeling), but I know I wouldn't order from them. Just a friendly caution. No affiliation et al. --Peter ------------------------------------------ -------------------------------- Peter Baer Galvin (203)432-1254 Senior Systems Programmer, Yale Univ. C.S. galvin-peter@cs.yale.edu 51 Prospect St, P.O.Box 2158, Yale Station ucbvax!decvax!yale!galvin-peter New Haven, Ct 06457 galvin-peter@yalecs.bitnet --Peter ------------------------------------------ -------------------------------- Peter Baer Galvin (203)432-1254 Senior Systems Programmer, Yale Univ. C.S. galvin-peter@cs.yale.edu 51 Prospect St, P.O.Box 2158, Yale Station ucbvax!decvax!yale!galvin-peter New Haven, Ct 06457 galvin-peter@yalecs.bitnet
dr@skivs.UUCP (David Robins) (05/03/89)
I had a bad experience with Micro 1 last year, and I wouldn't order from them again, either. In April, '88, I ordered a 386 system, a Mylex tower. In June, I was informed the board and sheetmetal case were on backorder, but due in any moment. In checking with Mylex, I found the parts actually were in the Mylex warehouse, but Micro 1 had neglected to pick them up! After many phone calls to Micro 1, I finally got the system in September, a wait of 5 months. I checked with other stores in the area, and could have had my system in less than 3 days, just the need for burn-in time. (I couldn't cancel the order due to fiscal year restrictions.) -- David Robins, M.D. (ophthalmologist / electronics engineer) The Smith-Kettlewell Institute of Visual Science, *** net: uunet!skivs!dr 2232 Webster St, San Francisco CA 94115 *** 415/561-1705 (voice) The opinions expressed herein do not reflect the opinion of the Institute!
bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) (05/06/89)
In article <59089@yale-celray.yale.UUCP>, galvin-peter@CS.Yale.EDU (Peter Galvin) writes: > [...] I called Micro 1 today and asked for the scoop, and > they informed be that they are now under Chapter 11 bankrupcy > protection and that I'd be receiving a letter. They did say that > they are under new management and expect to make good on all orders > and money owed, but didn't say when...not to say that I believe them. > But when I called sales they still seemed to be taking orders. > > So, I'd recommend NOT ORDERING from MICRO 1 until they've come out of > bankrupcy. I'm surprised that they can still take orders while under > court protection (if in fact they were...that's just my feeling), but > I know I wouldn't order from them. Just a friendly caution. Bankruptcy does not necessarily mean that the company ceases to exist or that it stops operations. There are several different types of bankruptcy; the most common ones are those governed by: o Chapter 7 of the Bankruptcy laws - This is total liquidation, all assets impounded and sold, liabilities paid off as possible (often only a few cents on the dollar), and the company must cease and desist its operation. o Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy laws - This is reorganization. The company continues operations, but has some protection from previous creditors while it tries to work out payment terms. This prevents the creditors from obtaining judgements and seizure of assets in lieu of payment. It does not mean that the company is forbidden to seek out new business (in fact, it will probably be required by the bankruptcy court!). Whether it is wise to deal with a firm in such a situation depends on whether you think they will be able to continue operations and whether you think the organization is reputable. Numerous large and well-known companies have sought protection under Chapter 11 and re-emerged as profitable companies again - this is not usually possible without new business! Obviously if the company continues to lose money it may eventually die the corporate equivalent of death by Chapter 7 (which is not, by the way, the only way for a corporation to "die"). o Chapter 13 of the Bankruptcy laws - This is individual bankruptcy. It usually does not apply in business situations unless the business organization is a sole proprietorship or a partnership. Depending on the direction of the court, it can look similar to either Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 for corporations. Many people who have little contact with the business world have a great deal of confusion about exactly what bankruptcy is. It is certainly NOT necessarily a complete extinction of the company - Chapter 7 above is probably what most people who hear the work "Bankruptcy" think about; but Chapter 11 bankruptcies are also quite common - perhaps even more common than Chapter 7 bankruptcies. Bruce C. Wright
jeffrey@algor2.UUCP (Jeffrey Kegler) (05/07/89)
In article <2932@rti.UUCP> bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) writes: >In article <59089@yale-celray.yale.UUCP>, galvin-peter@CS.Yale.EDU (Peter Galvin) writes: >> [...] I called Micro 1 today and asked for the scoop, and >> they informed be that they are now under Chapter 11 bankrupcy >> protection and that I'd be receiving a letter. They did say that >> they are under new management and expect to make good on all orders >> and money owed, but didn't say when...not to say that I believe them. >> But when I called sales they still seemed to be taking orders. >> >> So, I'd recommend NOT ORDERING from MICRO 1 until they've come out of >> bankrupcy. I'm surprised that they can still take orders while under >> court protection ... > >Bankruptcy does not necessarily mean that the company ceases to exist >or that it stops operations. [ Long and legally correct description >of Chapters 7, 11 and 13 of the Bankrupcy Laws ]. > >Many people who have little contact with the business world have a great >deal of confusion about exactly what bankruptcy is. As far a contact with the business world goes, my entire living comes from my own little programming business. Bruce's information is legally very well informed, but if the implication is that one should continue to do business with a mail order firm in Chapter 11, it is somewhat naive. While legally a mail order company in Chapter 11 is reorganizing and may never cause anyone more than a few days delay, practical considerations suggest otherwise. Often they are using Chapters 11 as a maneuver to slip the company's assets into a few insider hands. IF they take your money and send you nothing, under Chapter 11 that can be perfectly legal. They are not legally able to give preference to one class of debtor (that poor devil who paid for a hard disk) over another (the insider who sold them a pile of worthless assets at a highly inflated value the day before they filed Chapter 11). In fact, they could validly claim that to pay you would be in violation of court order. If you think the management which the court left in place is not being fair, you can fly out and stand in line in court. Almost always the court leaves present management in place, and supervises them to protect the creditors. The judge is really at the mercy of the information provided by the company, and Judge Wapner himself could do little more than prevent the more egregious ripoffs of the larger creditors. Chrysler or a steel company in Chapter 11 may be a reasonable credit risk, but given that consumers avoid mail order firms in Chapter 11 like the plague, often their intentions are to simply to perform a few court protected scams. So Peter is not necessarily out his money, but I would not give him $.50 on the dollar. -- Jeffrey Kegler, President, Algorists, jeffrey@algor2.UU.NET or uunet!algor2!jeffrey 1762 Wainwright DR, Reston VA 22090
bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) (05/07/89)
In article <426@algor2.UUCP>, jeffrey@algor2.UUCP (Jeffrey Kegler) writes: > In article <2932@rti.UUCP> bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) writes: > >Bankruptcy does not necessarily mean that the company ceases to exist > >or that it stops operations. [ Long and legally correct description > >of Chapters 7, 11 and 13 of the Bankrupcy Laws ]. > > > >Many people who have little contact with the business world have a great > >deal of confusion about exactly what bankruptcy is. > > As far a contact with the business world goes, my entire living comes from > my own little programming business. Bruce's information is legally very > well informed, but if the implication is that one should continue to do > business with a mail order firm in Chapter 11, it is somewhat naive. My original posting should not have been taken as a recommendation to deal with that particular company - I was only responding to what sounded to me like surprise in Jeffrey's original posting that Micro 1 was still allowed to accept new business. It was not necessarily my intention to imply that Jeffrey had little contact with business realities, though I will admit that it sounded like that to me through the rather terse contact possible through the net. Jeffrey goes on to talk about some of the bankruptcy scams that sometimes go on, and about the wisdom of dealing with a company in such a situation through the mail. This is for the most part pretty good advice; I had mentioned in passing in my previous posting that whether you choose to deal with such a firm should depend in large part on how reputable you feel the firm to be. Obviously that can be difficult to figure out if a mail-order company is in another state and you have little direct or indirect contact (say through people you know in that state) with the management of the mail-order company. For what it's worth, in my experience companies are not normally organized with the intention of declaring bankruptcy - if you are intending to set up a scam from the start it's so much simpler to just disappear and set up operations elsewhere when things start to get hot (the infamous boiler room operations). However, given a company in trouble and a management with a rather low standard of ethics, it can be very tempting for them to try to milk the company for all it's worth once it's obvious that the company is not going to make it. I've seen this happen several times in reasonably close proximity (and been one of the creditors holding the bag in one case). Many people that I know have surprised me - in both good and bad ways - when faced with this sort of business crisis or the threat of it. You don't really know what someone is made of until they've gone through some real difficulties. Bruce C. Wright