ab@unido.UUCP (Andreas Bormann) (04/16/86)
After watching the TV pictures of the american air raid against Libya
I think that I have to regard this act as an act of state terrorism.
In my eyes, Mr. Reagan is directly responsible for the death of
children and innocent people. With this act, Mr Reagan uses
similar methods as Gadaffi namely killing or wounding people who
are not responsible for their leaders' politics.
I hope that on the net and in America are some people who share my views.
Andreas Bormann
University of Dortmund [UniDo]
West Germany
Uucp: ab@unido.uucp
Path: {USA}!seismo!{mcvax}!unido!ab
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Bitnet: ab@unido.bitnet (== ab@ddoinf6.bitnet)david@ztivax.UUCP (04/18/86)
/* Written 10:27 pm Apr 16, 1986 by ab@unido in ztivax:net.general */
/* ---------- "Air raid on Libya" ---------- */
After watching the TV pictures of the american air raid against Libya
I think that I have to regard this act as an act of state terrorism.
In my eyes, Mr. Reagan is directly responsible for the death of
children and innocent people. With this act, Mr Reagan uses
similar methods as Gadaffi namely killing or wounding people who
are not responsible for their leaders' politics.
I hope that on the net and in America are some people who share my views.
Andreas Bormann
University of Dortmund [UniDo]
West Germany
Well, I doubt that you will find people in America who share your
views, because the brainwashing there is getting rather complete. I
wonder if the coverage on European news stations even made it to the
US. It certainly was not on the US propaganda stations here (W.
Germany). There was basically no coverage on either the Voice Of
America (well, only to say that the White House had recieved
congratulations from its allies on the sucessful action against
Libya!!!) or on the Armed Forced Radio (there was a thirty second
report saying an attack had been made on Libya, that two missiles
fired on a LORAN station in the Med boith fell harmlessly into the
sea, AND THAT WAS IT!!!)
People in the US should wake up and see what is happening there.
Raygun is getting ready to start a very big war. And the US populace
do not have the faintest idea of what is going on.
Raygun has demonstrated that he is an imperialist bent on conquering
the world, not on spreading the American Dream of Peace, Liberty, and
the Pursuit of Happiness. Examples:
Chile: A coup rigged by the CIA (Bush is ex CIA director), installing
a military dictatorship. Good in CIA's eyes, because they buy
US arms.
Nicaragua: No evidence that terrorists supported by Raygun support
concepts of US consitution. So why does Raygun back terrorists?
Manila: Marcos is a perfect example of people Raygun likes.
Afghanistan: Send arms to Afghanis, let the people nearby in Cambodia
starve.
Angola: Popular government, dealing in good faith with US businesses
(just like Libya used to), Raygun is now backing anti-government
terrorists.
Libya: The only DEMOCRACY in the entire middle east. The only leader
in the middle east who is both a JEW AND AN ARAB. No interest
in this potentially important country for spreading good in
Middle East.
The only thing consistent with the way Raygun chooses who is on his
side and who is the Enemy is by who they by weapons from. If the buy
fromthe US, then they are OK by him. If they don't, he will ack
terrorists to overthrow the government, or he will embark on state
terrorism to murder innocent people, as he has done this week in
Libya.
And for all of this, Raygun is very popular. Goes to show how far the
brainwashing has progressed. Just look at the popular movies in the
US to see the general attitude. Rambo, Rocky, Phantom Commando, etc.,
etc., etc. "Kill those guys, they are the Enemy!!!!!!!!!!!"
When these things happen, it makes me very glad i no longer live in
the USA.
David E. Smyth
Heimgartenstrasse 14
Munich
West Germany
ex: Huntington Beach California, Milco International Inc.
seismo!unido!ztivax!davidjeff@rtech.UUCP (Jeff Lichtman) (04/21/86)
I am no fan of Ronald Reagan, but I couldn't let this stuff go by. > > Chile: A coup rigged by the CIA (Bush is ex CIA director), installing > a military dictatorship. Good in CIA's eyes, because they buy > US arms. This happened under Nixon, not Reagan. Remember? > Manila: Marcos is a perfect example of people Raygun likes. I am glad that Reagan finally saw the light, and withdrew support from Marcos. It's true that Reagan supported Marcos before the Philipine elections. Every U.S. President has done the same thing since Marcos took over. > Libya: The only DEMOCRACY in the entire middle east. The only leader > in the middle east who is both a JEW AND AN ARAB. No interest > in this potentially important country for spreading good in > Middle East. Amusing at best. Ever heard of Israel, where they hold free elections? When was the last election in Libya? What good is Qadaffi trying to spread with his terrorist attacks? What is Qadaffi's Jewish background (that's a new one on me!). -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) "Saints should always be judged guilty until they are proved innocent..." {amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff {ucbvax, decvax}!mtxinu!rtech!jeff
systaff@psuvax1.UUCP (04/22/86)
> > Well, I doubt that you will find people in America who share your > views, because the brainwashing there is getting rather complete. I > > Libya: The only DEMOCRACY in the entire middle east. The only leader > in the middle east who is both a JEW AND AN ARAB. No interest > in this potentially important country for spreading good in > Middle East. > Looks like your confused about *who* is really brainwashed. > > And for all of this, Raygun is very popular. Goes to show how far the > brainwashing has progressed. Just look at the popular movies in the > US to see the general attitude. Rambo, Rocky, Phantom Commando, etc., > etc., etc. "Kill those guys, they are the Enemy!!!!!!!!!!!" > The only one I saw was Rocky. You don't appreciate the underdog success story? I suppose you prefer those *democracies* that choose the movies for you - only anti-American themes. > When these things happen, it makes me very glad i no longer live in > the USA. > > David E. Smyth > Me too! Mark Johnson Penn State USA
balough@hope.UUCP (04/22/86)
> Well, I doubt that you will find people in America who share your > views, because the brainwashing there is getting rather complete. I Yep, We are even starting to believe that we can trust our allies. :] And that our non allied counties are really interested in peace. :] > wonder if the coverage on European news stations even made it to the > US. It certainly was not on the US propaganda stations here (W. > Germany). There was basically no coverage on either the Voice Of > America (well, only to say that the White House had recieved > congratulations from its allies on the sucessful action against > Libya!!!) Gee, and here in the US we were told that our allies all refuted our actions against Libya and said they would not back US hostility. > or on the Armed Forced Radio (there was a thirty second > report saying an attack had been made on Libya, that two missiles > fired on a LORAN station in the Med both fell harmlessly into the > sea, AND THAT WAS IT!!!) > People in the US should wake up and see what is happening there. > Raygun is getting ready to start a very big war. And the US populace > do not have the faintest idea of what is going on. > Raygun has demonstrated that he is an imperialist bent on conquering > the world, not on spreading the American Dream of Peace, Liberty, and > the Pursuit of Happiness. Examples: > > Chile: A coup rigged by the CIA (Bush is ex CIA director), installing > a military dictatorship. Good in CIA's eyes, because they buy > US arms. > Nicaragua: No evidence that terrorists supported by Raygun support > concepts of US consitution. So why does Raygun back terrorists? Your right. There was no evidence that the populace didn't like Hitler so why did we meddle in that matter either? :] > Manila: Marcos is a perfect example of people Raygun likes. Yes. Reagan liked him so much, he sent air force jets to take the guy to Hawaii to start his retirement, and to think, in our History class, they told us all the old world leaders retired in Southern California. :] > Afghanistan: Send arms to Afghanis, let the people nearby in Cambodia > starve. American populace try to send food to starving Cambodians, rebells intercept most all of supplies sent. We should keep sending them though, so we can feed the bellies of the rebells and give them medication to keep them strong. :] > Angola: Popular government, dealing in good faith with US businesses > (just like Libya used to), Raygun is now backing anti-government > terrorists. > Libya: The only DEMOCRACY in the entire middle east. The only leader > in the middle east who is both a JEW AND AN ARAB. No interest in > this potentially important country for spreading good in Middle East. Who's good? Your west german idea of political hegonomy? > The only thing consistent with the way Raygun chooses who is on his > side and who is the Enemy is by who they buy weapons from. If the buy > from the US, then they are OK by him. If they don't, he will ask > terrorists to overthrow the government, or he will embark on state > terrorism to murder innocent people, as he has done this week in Libya. The goal was not to injure innocent civilians but to show Libya that we do not take kindly to their acts of state terrorism and therefore we will retalliate swiftly and concisely, ( targets were (SUPPOSED) meeting places for the intelligence in Libya), if further events occur involving civialian casualties or injuries. > And for all of this, Raygun is very popular. Goes to show how far the > brainwashing has progressed. Just look at the popular movies in the > US to see the general attitude. Rambo, Rocky, Phantom Commando, etc., > etc., etc. "Kill those guys, they are the Enemy!!!!!!!!!!!" For the real American View, Go see STAR TREK III, The Search For Spock, We consider ourselves like Admiral James T. Kirk, on the dying planet "GENESIS" he offers to save the "Klingon Bastard" but aforesaid refuses a chance to live under "federation rule" and would rather die and take the Admiral with him. The Admiral has had enough of this, since the Klingon has already had Kirk's son killed, so he sends the Klingon falling to his death, But it was not before giving him a chance to live. Reagan feals he has given "terrorist bastards" too many chances, No more Mr. Nice Guy. > When these things happen, it makes me very glad i no longer live in the USA. Your right, Huntington Beach, Ca., is a nice place to visit, but we wouldn't want you to live there! :] Besides, Garden Grove, Costa Mesa, or Newport Beach, on the whole, have much better housing, and closer stores of convenience. > David E. Smyth Another David Smith? The phone books here are full of them. :] > Heimgartenstrasse 14 > Munich, West Germany > ex: Huntington Beach California, Milco International Inc. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR PRO AMERICAN PROPOGANDA *** :] -balough at the University of California, in Riverside. ex: Huntington Beach, Ca. But who cares? :]
fritz@hpfclp.UUCP (04/23/86)
>> I hope that on the net and in America are some people who share my views. > Well, I doubt that you will find people in America who share your > views, because the brainwashing there is getting rather complete. Unfortunately, it is true that the majority of Americans seem to support Reagan in this action. One only has to watch the local stations with their "man on the street" polls to see that. However, don't assume that every person in the US has been "brainwashed" into the Rambo mindset. I have yet to talk to a single person who thought the attack was a good idea. Granted, most of the people I talked to were well-educated and may have understood the ramifications better than the average citizen. These are also mostly people who think Reagan is a bonzo movie cowboy with absolutely no idea of what he is doing to our country and the world. Reagan's agressive tactics (in Libya, in Grenada, with the Soviets, you name it) AND his irresponsible fiscal policies scare the bejeebers out of many of us! And don't assume that the "American propaganda" is all tilted towards Reagan. As little as I watch TV, I still saw several shows (e.g. Nightline) that asked some very hard-hitting questions as to why in blazes we did such a crazy thing, what the rest of the world thinks of us, how it will affect our standing in the world community, how it will affect the safety of Americans AND others, etc. Now, to be honest, I don't necessarily feel that attacking Libya (especially with a ""surgical"" strike like this) was a 100% wrong idea. I don't know how else one gets the attention of a paranoid megalomaniac like Khaddafi. I agree with Reagan on one point: Khaddafi is a dangerous man. He harbors, trains, and encourages terrorists to strike around the world. I am truly grateful he doesn't have access to nuclear weapons. However, ALL OTHER POSSIBILITIES should have been exhausted before we went in with guns blazing -- if for no other reason than to show that we really TRIED, so that we wouldn't have looked quite so much like trigger-happy Rambo's (or cowboys, or state terrorists, or whatever you want to call it). I object to the "state terrorism" label, because at least Reagan, unlike Khaddafi's terrorists, didn't intentionally TRY to kill innocent civilians. The strike was very carefully planned to damage Khaddafi's headquarters, elite guard, and military installations. They even tried to miss the Libyan army installations that weren't fanatically loyal to Khaddafi! I believe that much of the damage to civilian areas was caused by Libya's stray SAM-5 missiles. (Even some of the pictures that Libya released showed Russian writing on the wreckage of the "American" bombs and "plane wreckage"!) And if Khaddafi didn't hide behind innocent civilians by putting his military headquarters in the middle of a civilian area, perhaps NO civilians would have been hurt. I don't want the US to be perceived as some kind of international bully (at least, any more than it already is, *sigh*). I don't want the people of the world to think of America the way intelligent Americans (as opposed to rabid "anti-Commie" types) think of the USSR -- as an agressive, warlike nation that furthers its ideologies and political/economic needs by conquest (in Czechoslovakia, Afganistan, etc.). (I am not sure how to interpret Russia's recent peaceful offers -- as genuine attemps to reduce the tension in the world, or as propagandistic moves that they know Reagan will reject.) But until this right-wing, aggressive, John Wayne/Rambo/kick-their-asses attitude swings back toward a more normal outlook, and we replace Reagan with a more sane leader, I fear America will earn itself more black marks in the eyes of the world. I just hope that's the worst that happens. Gary Fritz Ft Collins, CO {ihnp4,hplabs}!hpfcla!fritz The above are my own opinions, and in no way represent the views of my employer or anybody else who might object.
bep@drutx (04/25/86)
In posting by David E. Smyth he writes >views, because the brainwashing there(us) is getting rather complete. I >wonder if the coverage on European news stations even made it to the >US. I don't know how the rest of the Americans think, but I believe that Reagan (or Raygun as Mr. Smyth calls him) is not given the benefit of doubt in the American press. If the president was able to control the media then we would never have had Watergate. I would have to wonder about the news dept. in the countries in Europe. Just how free are their news dept. We in this country have to put up with seeing all the views of foreign governments and see their people burning our flags and calling us all sort of bad names, while their government is standing at out door with their hands out for more money. >People in the US should wake up and see what is happening there. >Raygun is getting ready to start a very big war. And the US populace >do not have the faintest idea of what is going on. Again I only talk for myself but I read what Reagan says and I read what his opponents have to say. I don't see how we are getting brainwashed I have access to every thing from neo-conservative to ultra-liberal and can read or think what ever I chose, do you have that right in government controlled media that you have in Germany Mr. Smyth? As for starting a war is not Libya more are less making war on Americans and American own businesses? >When these thins happen, it makes me very glad i no longer live in >the USA. I bet you don't realize how glad I am that you don't live here either. When I see the German people out demonstrating against some of the things that the USSR does then I will believe that the News Media in Germany is not slanted. Where where all the protest against Afghanistan when it was invaded, If you think that the Soviet Union is so much better then why are you not moving into their circle, why is the government of Germany still accepting money and arms from the US? It seems that you and your people are a two face nation turning to who ever will give you the money you need. As for me I say pull out of Europe and let Europe take care of itself!! My opinions are my own for better or worse. -- Bentz Puryear (303)538-1746 (drutx!bep) 11900 North Pecos Street Rm. 31G22 Denver, Colorado 80234
steve@bambi (04/30/86)
> When these things happen, it makes me very glad i no longer live in > the USA. > > David E. Smyth We're all delighted about that too. -Steve Miller ihnp4!bellcore!bambi!steve (which is in the USA)