t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen) (06/29/89)
Hey! I've been an (un)happy owner of the Orchid ProDesigner VGA+ for some
time and I'd like to know if any of you have had similar experiences..
I bought this card a couple of weeks ago and found it wasn't working. So did
the salesman at the computer store. So the card was sent for repair. It came
back today... But was still not working properly.. (They replaced it, I don't
know what they did to the original.)
The main problem is that the VGA-card can't seem to handle 10MHz bus speed..
(I have a Mitac MPC 2000s motherboard) Instead I have to lower the speed to
6MHz to get the card working. This seems a little rough. Surely a new VGA
card should be able to handle 10MHz!? If I use 10MHz speed, in a graphics
program a part (10%) of the pixels go anywhere in the screen. This happens
also if the program writes through the BIOS.. If I put the card in an 8-bit
slot, it doesn't have this problem. (even in 10MHz speed..) Using the jumper
to set 8-bit operation doesn't have the same effect.
Problem 2: in 800x600x16 and 800x600x256 graphics modes there is a plainly
visible dark vertical line at the right side of the picture. About .5 cm
from the side. (2.5 cm = 1 inch, if you didn't know ;) I can't get it to
dissapper. And I'm quite certain it DOESN'T come from the monitor! (Which is,
by the way, TVM MD-11A)
Problem 3: The windows driver (Windows 2.x , 800x600x16) doesn't work properly.
The background is (by default) green and when I move a window around, it leaves
dark horizontal lines on green at the background. Also, if I minimize (for
example) the MSDOS-executive and move it around, I still can read 'msdos
executive' on the place the icon was previously!!
You can reply to the net or if you like, directly my e-mail addres below. The
last problem conserns vugif 1.00 . If a GIF has background other than black,
and vugif tries to change the border color in 800x600 modes, the colors go
'dark'.. This means most GIFs become almost black but some only a little dark..
(I haven't registered yet, so vugif uses BIOS calls..)
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Ari Huttunen = In the beginning the Uni(x)verse was created.
ahuttune@hupu.hut.fi = This has made a lot of people very angry and been
= widely considered as a bad move.
_______________________________________________________________________________rogers@falcon.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Brynn Rogers) (06/29/89)
In article <T36273C.89Jun29022346@saha.hut.fi> t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen) writes: > >Hey! I've been an (un)happy owner of the Orchid ProDesigner VGA+ for some >time and I'd like to know if any of you have had similar experiences.. I also bought a Orchird Prodesigner, and made it a plus for $52 I am happy with it though. >The main problem is that the VGA-card can't seem to handle 10MHz bus speed.. >(I have a Mitac MPC 2000s motherboard) Instead I have to lower the speed to >6MHz to get the card working. This seems a little rough. Surely a new VGA >card should be able to handle 10MHz!? If I use 10MHz speed, in a graphics >program a part (10%) of the pixels go anywhere in the screen. This happens >also if the program writes through the BIOS.. If I put the card in an 8-bit >slot, it doesn't have this problem. (even in 10MHz speed..) Using the jumper >to set 8-bit operation doesn't have the same effect. My DTK clone runs the bus at 10 Mhz also. Standerd bus speed (and the speed most cards are designed to handle) is 8 Mhz. In graphics mode maybe 1% of my pixels miss there mark, and in text mode I have seen 2 characters (out of zillions) with different color/attribute. I called Orchird and they said that it might help if their card was in the slot closest to the power supply. I moved it and it seemed to help marginally, but still didn't fix everything. What DID fix the problem completely is to use the VGASPEED.SYS driver that comes with the board to load the BIOS into RAM. eats about 30k of your memory, but works great. >Problem 2: in 800x600x16 and 800x600x256 graphics modes there is a plainly >visible dark vertical line at the right side of the picture. About .5 cm >from the side. (2.5 cm = 1 inch, if you didn't know ;) I can't get it to >dissapper. And I'm quite certain it DOESN'T come from the monitor! (Which is, >by the way, TVM MD-11A) I haven't seen anything like this. I am useing a princeton Ultra-sync untill I have enough money for a NANAO 9070s. Note that Most VGA moniters are not rated for 800x600, just 800x560 (if that even). moniters that are rated for 800x560 may give wierd results like this. I haven't seen any really decent moniters that can handle 800x600 for less then $500 [for mail order or wholesale] <Problem 3: The windows driver (Windows 2.x , 800x600x16) doesn't work properly. <The background is (by default) green and when I move a window around, it leaves <dark horizontal lines on green at the background. Also, if I minimize (for <example) the MSDOS-executive and move it around, I still can read 'msdos <executive' on the place the icon was previously!! I don't have this problem. I bet the VGASPEED driver fixes it. <You can reply to the net or if you like, directly my e-mail addres below. The <last problem conserns vugif 1.00 . If a GIF has background other than black, <and vugif tries to change the border color in 800x600 modes, the colors go <'dark'.. This means most GIFs become almost black but some only a little dark.. I have noticed that sometimes the background is white, and then you can't see the picture (it is washed out) untill the last interlace is drawn. I didn't attribute that to the vga board, because so many of the other pictures look great. <(I haven't registered yet, so vugif uses BIOS calls..) I didn't realize that I would get a better version if I registered. I'll have to check into that. VGASPEED.SYS will double the perrformance of the BIOS modes in vugif. ***************** I decided (before I found how well VGASPEED works) that my 6/10Mhz clone didn't need the 6 Mhz speed, and I could switch the 6 Mhz crystal (probably 2x or 3x 6Mhz) with an 8Mhz crystal (2x or 3x of course). Another solution I am going to try is to burn the BIOS on the VGA board into faster EPROMs. I will let you know if this works. I can live with the 30k that VGASPEED.SYS eats up, so that will probably always be faster. One very very good solution that I would contemplate more often if I had the money, is to swap your motherboard with a 16 Mhz unit. these must have their IO bus running at 8 Mhz (because while lots of peoples boards may squeek by at 10Mhz, I doubt if any would run at 16Mhz) I can get DTKs new 16 Meg motherboard for <$400 dump my 10Mhz mother for $250 (put it in a case and sell it to someone) and probably would have to get 2 1Meg banks of memory for the new one. This would be a interrim measure until 486 ESIA (EISA??) bus systems are out and debugged a bit. (2-3 years for me, less if you have lots of $$) My Opinion: Orchid makes a great board. (prodesigner) I am very happy with it. I am impressed with the boards features,and thrilled with the price; I got mine locally for $279 +tax, 256k more of ram for $52 (yes RAM is coming down) Reply direct if you have more questions about this board. (or anything :-) Brynn Rogers Honeywell S&RC rogers@src.honeywell.com nic.MR.net!srcsip!rogers
chasm@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Charles Marslett) (07/01/89)
In article <24760@srcsip.UUCP>, rogers@falcon.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Brynn Rogers) writes: :: In article <T36273C.89Jun29022346@saha.hut.fi> t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen) writes: :: > :: >Hey! I've been an (un)happy owner of the Orchid ProDesigner VGA+ for some :: >time and I'd like to know if any of you have had similar experiences.. :: :: I also bought a Orchird Prodesigner, and made it a plus for $52 :: I am happy with it though. :: :: >The main problem is that the VGA-card can't seem to handle 10MHz bus speed.. :: >(I have a Mitac MPC 2000s motherboard) Instead I have to lower the speed to :: >6MHz to get the card working. This seems a little rough. Surely a new VGA :: >card should be able to handle 10MHz!? If I use 10MHz speed, in a graphics :: >program a part (10%) of the pixels go anywhere in the screen. This happens :: >also if the program writes through the BIOS.. If I put the card in an 8-bit :: >slot, it doesn't have this problem. (even in 10MHz speed..) Using the jumper :: >to set 8-bit operation doesn't have the same effect. This appears to be a problem with the Tseng Labs ET3000 chip in the board. STB (the company I work for) makes a similar board and it also has problems with several faster 386 boxes. Some work great, some don't, and speed is only part of the issue (a 25 MHz Everex works, a 16 MHz Zenith works, but a 20 MHz Micronics doesn't?). In our case, at least, the problem only goes away completely with our 8-bit card (even in an 8-bit slot, the 16-bit card has occasional misplaced pixels). :: My DTK clone runs the bus at 10 Mhz also. Standerd bus speed (and the speed :: most cards are designed to handle) is 8 Mhz. As I mentioned above, some do and some don't, I'll post a message if I ever figure out what it takes to fix the problem! :: In graphics mode maybe 1% of my pixels miss there mark, and in text mode :: I have seen 2 characters (out of zillions) with different color/attribute. :: :: I called Orchird and they said that it might help if their card was in the :: slot closest to the power supply. I moved it and it seemed to help marginally, :: but still didn't fix everything. Here I can only agree, nothing I have tried has really fixed the problem. :: What DID fix the problem completely is to use the VGASPEED.SYS :: driver that comes with the board to load the BIOS into RAM. eats about :: 30k of your memory, but works great. This is equivalent to a fix we have installed on a couple of boards, but it does not seem to fully solve the problem (the difficulty is that in some graphics modes, especially, parts of the BIOS ROM are not readable). :: >Problem 2: in 800x600x16 and 800x600x256 graphics modes there is a plainly :: >visible dark vertical line at the right side of the picture. About .5 cm :: >from the side. (2.5 cm = 1 inch, if you didn't know ;) I can't get it to :: >dissapper. And I'm quite certain it DOESN'T come from the monitor! (Which is, :: >by the way, TVM MD-11A) :: :: I haven't seen anything like this. I am useing a princeton Ultra-sync untill :: I have enough money for a NANAO 9070s. Note that Most VGA moniters are :: not rated for 800x600, just 800x560 (if that even). moniters that are :: rated for 800x560 may give wierd results like this. :: I haven't seen any really decent moniters that can handle 800x600 for :: less then $500 [for mail order or wholesale] If you are seeing this when running Ventura Publisher or other software that turns on the border, it probably is a monitor problem (in a sense). What is happening here is that the border actually extends past the start of the hori- zontal retrace, so a shadow of the overscan color wraps back over the first (or last) few pixels on the screen. A similar problem can occur on the left side of the screen if the video is unblanked before the retrace completes. In both cases, the problem arises if the configuration tables for 800x600 are "tuned" to a monitor that has a faster retrace than the one you are using. :: <Problem 3: The windows driver (Windows 2.x , 800x600x16) doesn't work properly. :: <The background is (by default) green and when I move a window around, it leaves :: <dark horizontal lines on green at the background. Also, if I minimize (for :: <example) the MSDOS-executive and move it around, I still can read 'msdos :: <executive' on the place the icon was previously!! Same as the first problem -- and neither we nor Orchid have fixed it yet, I suspect. STB received a new Windows/386 and Windows/286 driver set from Tseng Labs, and they may fix some of the problem. :: I don't have this problem. I bet the VGASPEED driver fixes it. It may help, but Windows requires so much memory, you may not want to use it. :: <You can reply to the net or if you like, directly my e-mail addres below. The :: <last problem conserns vugif 1.00 . If a GIF has background other than black, :: <and vugif tries to change the border color in 800x600 modes, the colors go :: <'dark'.. This means most GIFs become almost black but some only a little dark.. This is definitely the overscan problem -- a faster monitor will fix the problem (or just don't turn on the border...). :: I have noticed that sometimes the background is white, and then you can't :: see the picture (it is washed out) untill the last interlace is drawn. :: I didn't attribute that to the vga board, because so many of the other :: pictures look great. :: :: <(I haven't registered yet, so vugif uses BIOS calls..) :: I didn't realize that I would get a better version if I registered. :: I'll have to check into that. :: VGASPEED.SYS will double the perrformance of the BIOS modes in vugif. :: :: ***************** :: I decided (before I found how well VGASPEED works) that my 6/10Mhz :: clone didn't need the 6 Mhz speed, and I could switch the 6 Mhz crystal :: (probably 2x or 3x 6Mhz) with an 8Mhz crystal (2x or 3x of course). :: :: Another solution I am going to try is to burn the BIOS on the VGA board :: into faster EPROMs. I will let you know if this works. I can live with :: the 30k that VGASPEED.SYS eats up, so that will probably always be faster. No help with the STB board, so I suspect it will not help with the Orchid. The problem seems to be in the ET3000 chip itself (our fix was to "AND" the A17 line from the bus with the A13 line to form the A13 line going into the ET3000 muxes: this made all BIOS references look like they were in the first 16K of the ROM to the ET3000, and this fixed the BIOS access problem, but video RAM still occasionally glitches). :: My Opinion: Orchid makes a great board. (prodesigner) I am very happy with :: it. I am impressed with the boards features,and thrilled with the price; :: I got mine locally for $279 +tax, 256k more of ram for $52 (yes RAM is coming :: down) Not to say anything bad about STB's VGA Extra/EM products, but I do agree with you, the Orchid card is a very good one (if you get picky enough, I think I designed a bit better card, but I may be biased ;^). :: Brynn Rogers Honeywell S&RC rogers@src.honeywell.com :: nic.MR.net!srcsip!rogers Charles =========================================================================== Charles Marslett STB Systems, Inc. <== Apply all standard disclaimers Wordmark Systems <== No disclaimers required -- that's just me chasm@killer.dallas.tx.us <== soon to be attctc.dallas.tx.us I think
keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (07/04/89)
In article <24760@srcsip.UUCP> rogers@falcon.UUCP (Brynn Rogers) writes: > >My Opinion: Orchid makes a great board. (prodesigner) I am very happy with >it. I am impressed with the boards features,and thrilled with the price; >I got mine locally for $279 +tax, 256k more of ram for $52 (yes RAM is coming >down) > Well, we got an Orchid ProDesignerPlus in for evaluation. It will be going back because it is just too durn slow. It runs at only about 2/3 the speed of the Video7 FastWrite (or the FastWrite clone made by Tatung that we seem to be standardizing on around here). And, it seems to be brain damaged (dead?) in it's 800x600x[16|256] mode (although it DOES work at 768x1024; I can't explain it!). We tested it with WordPerfect's preview mode and the 2-up page preview was _almost_ readable at the 768x1024 mode (this on an NEC Multisysnc II; migh even be better on our 16" Nanao 9707S's). Anyway, for $235 we'll stick with the Tatung clone of the Video7 FastWrite clone; the lack of expandibility from 256k to 512k video RAM is not important to us but it may be to you... kEITHe