tgl@zog.cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane) (07/21/89)
In article <5500@pt.cs.cmu.edu>, I asked: > I don't know much about the PC world, but I've been asked by a friend > to recommend some PC software; can the net help me out? > > The users-to-be are some secretaries who are just about total computer > novices; they don't need any fancy capabilities, they do need something > that's TRULY easy to learn, easy to use, and reasonably idiotproof. > > I figure they need a word processor and possibly a spreadsheet > (their main output is business letters and sales quotes). > Transferring data from the spreadsheet to the WP would need to be easy. > Also, well-supported commercial products would be best, > so's they have a tech support number to call... > > Recommendations for good utility software for novices would be gratefully > accepted too. F'r instance, is there a file uneraser that doesn't need a > wizard to run it? Maybe a shell to hide the MSDOS command language? I got replies from 11 people. There wasn't a lot of consensus, but here are the conclusions I came away with: 1. An integrated package (either PFS:First Choice or Microsoft Works) provides a good deal of capability in an inexpensive, fairly easy to use package. It won't provide advanced features, but it may well do everything needed. 2. WordPerfect is about the most capable word processor around, and quite a few people thought it worth using despite a relatively steep learning curve. Their theory is that when you get to the point of needing more power, it's there. Others thought it much too hard to learn. WordStar, MS Word, and Lotus Manuscript were also recommended; WordStar and Word were condemned as well! 3. For a standalone spreadsheet, there was a little more sentiment for Excel than 1-2-3. 4. In the utility area, Norton Utilities and Norton Commander (the latter is a DOS shell replacement) received praise; so did MS Windows. One person made a point that I should have realized: whatever software you buy, it's crucial to put adequate effort into *training*. Having the best tools in the world doesn't do much for you if you don't know how to use 'em. The replies I received are presented below (slightly edited, and with identifying info removed). Many thanks to those who responded. --------------- I strongly recommend the Norton Commander MSDOS shell program. It's very mouse oriented, and allows simple point & shoot operations like the Mac. It can be easily programmed to suit a total novice or a heavy duty power user. As to the uneraser, Norton's Utilities include a pretty simple one. Examples: to unerase the file whoops.txt, you type: QU WHOOPS.TXT to unerase all files which are recoverable, you type: QU *.* Only trick is that you have to supply the first character of the erased filename (no way around this) which could trip up a novice. Lastly, I'm sure everyone will urge you to use their favorite WP and insist that it is the easiest. My experience has been that there are a number of good ones. However, I think that WordPerfect (the market leader by a large margin) is just about the worst for a novice to try to use. The whole thing is counter-intuitive - every action starts with a function key. I think secretaries would prefer WordStar (command use the control key plus a letter) or MicroSoft Word (very mouse oriented). Of course, as I said before, there are many good WPs for MSDOS. --------------- In my opinion, The best Word Processors out there are WordStar and Word Perfect. The spreadsheet I recommend is LOTUS 1-2-3. LOTUS is easily adaptable to WordStar but more-so with Word Perfect. In Word Perfect you can call in graphs from LOTUS and insert them in a document. Utility software: I suggest either PC-TOOLS or Norton Utilities. --------------- I'd recommend WordPerfect even for novices. They don't need to know it all, after all, to use the basics. There are only a couple of places to be careful--saving files with F10 leaves the material in RAM, and makes it possible to put files into each other without noticing it while F7 saves the file and clear memory, and re-saving a file already saved makes it easy to rename the file 'y' when meaning only to answer 'yes, I want to replace the file'. WordPerfect Corp makes a spread sheet (PlanPerfect, I think) that, while not highly regarded as a spread sheet, makes it easy to get back and forth. I think WordPerfect is a good choice also, BTW, because, while they are novices now, they may not be forever and may find some of the advanced skills useful later. [later] I use WP myself and like it very much and have taught it to secretaries, some complete novices and some users of Displaywrite and other editors. My hunch is that people who don't like it are programmers. It is NOT a programmers editor! To put it mildly. One argument you hear a lot is "WP is not 'intuitive'." Well, I'm not clear about what that means. I sure don't (or didn't) find WordStar intuitive in any way. And vi is a total mess as far as I'm concerned. I can use it but I sure can't like it. I've tried WORD, which is the only other secretary type wordprocessor that's worth considering today, and couldn't learn it. I use WatchWord on a z100 and like it--but it is a programmers word processor and is quite clunky compared to WP. As far as WORD is concerned, it apparently is pretty good, but hasn't got some of the great features of WP and certainly isn't easier. --------------- You made a query on usenet about a word processor that your secretaries could use that was easy to learn. What I am about to say is probably biased. WE use Lotus Manuscript and we have all five of our secretaries using it. Although it is a very powerful editor they can use it right out of the box because it is quite easy to setup and install. Now, as they become more proficient they can use more of the features like templates and typesetting commands etc. One of the most incredibly nice things about Manuscript is that is will automatically go and fetch a Lotus 1-2-3 file and insert it in your text (you can also specify the window as well as the range of data to get) and you can set it to get the data immediately, on command, or whenever you want to print or preview. I have been using Manuscript for about three 1/2 years so of course I am rather competant with it but I have taught two of our secretaries how to use it in an afternoon. It has a marvellous spell checker, thesaurus, and many other features. --------------- A good, easy-to-use word processor is PFS:Professional Write. It is very simple to use, and produces attractive output. It's not very expensive either! It doesn't have many fancy features, just the basics - spell checker, headers and footers, etc. I use it a lot myself for writing day-to-day stuff. Check it out! You might want to check out PFS: Professional Plan (I think that's it name). It's an easy-to-use spreadsheet, if you need one. (Actually, all the PFS stuff is great for beginners.) I've never had occasion to call their tech support - I haven't had any problems that have required it (so far, anyway...) --------------- My parents use Microsoft Works and PFS First Choice, and are reasonably happy. A low-end integrated package such as one of these should provide the easiest (to use and learn) path to integrate WP and spreadsheet documents. I've never used either of these packages myself. --------------- You might try one of the integrated packages from Microsoft or PFS. The first package I purchased when I got my AT clone was PFS:First Choice. It contains a word processor, a spreadsheet, a database program, and a couple of other things. I purchased an integrated package primarily because my wife, a college student, refuses to take the time to learn a "complete" package. It turns out that this direction works for us. I have just purchased Microsoft Works, which is a competing product with First Choice and includes about the same features. I haven't tried to use it yet, so I don't have any comparisons. Anyway, these integrated packages aren't as full featured (read complicated to learn) as Lotus 1-2-3 or Microsoft Word, but they do provide the basic capabilities in a relatively easy to use package. --------------- Did you ever consider an integrated packaged such as PFS:First Choice? It's pretty cheap (~$100 or so I think, by mail) and has a word processor, spreadsheet, communications manager, database...maybe some other stuff by now (last time I worked with PFS they were at version 1.XX...now they're at version 3.0, so I don't know what's been added in the last year or two). If these people are novice users, they probably don't need all the functions of a WP like WordPerfect or a spreadsheet like Lotus. --------------- I'd recommend an integrated product. I'm familiar with Smart, Framework and MS Works, and I'd recommend the Works. It's not the most powerful, but Framework is traditionally buggy, and the concepts tend to be difficult. Smart --- I think the whole product is a big kludge. Works is not super fancy, but it's easy, there is good support, and it's cheap. --------------- If the machine is an AT clone or better (at least an 80286) I suggest MS Windows. For ~$70, you get a very easy, and very capable, word processor, a notepad, a calculator, and a few other niceties, and you get the ability to exchange information with the BEST spreadsheet in the business (Excel). Even Excel is extremely easy to use and understand. My first encounter with Excel was a demo edition that I downloaded from CIS. Without any documentation nor any of the help files, I was able to link spreadsheets. It took me longer to figure it out than it should have because I assumed it would be more difficult that it really was! --------------- I have a consulting business, and the type of people you describe, are the ones that make money for me. Actually it's their short sighted employers. The mistake is that the company invests in the hardware, and not the people. They need training! When you give the secretaries the shells that you ask for, you encourage them to create files in some unknown god-forsaken place on their hard disks. They never realize that they should make subdirectories, because they don't even know that such things do or should exist. They do literally no file maintenance, and their ignorance leaves them frustrated. They need a basic explanation of DOS. They don't need to know the esoterics, but they should know how to use directories, how to copy, delete, and rename files. They shouldd know how to set the attributes on files (so that they don't accidently erase command.com or some equally important file). They should know about paths with respect to file names. Without providing that type of information for the average secretary, the employers deserve the grief that they get. After they know something about DOS, I would put my money on WordPerfect for a word processor. There is some pain in learning the program, but the power that it provides is worth the price. If you train the secretaries, some of them will become word processing wizards, and their increased productivity will certainly pay off for the company. Another reason for selecting WordPerfect is the support provided by WordPerfect Corp. You call them on an (800) phone number and get excellent support - FOR FREE. Try that with Ashton Tate's Multimate if you want to see BAD. Excel is a good spread sheet, and is fairly easy to use. I know everyone goes with Lotus, but I think the learning curve on Excel is easier, and you're talking about low level users. If you want a database that the average secretary can use quickly, try PFS Professional File, orr Q & A. They're easy, and really very good. I don't mean to lecture, but everyone wants the easy way out, and it just doesn't work in this case. You have a powerful tool, but if you don't teach the people how to use it, you've just got garbage. You wouldn't turn the average person loose with a radial arm saw, or a pneumatic jack hammer, why should it be any different with a computer. The solution is simple, it just means spending money in the right place. [later] As an alternative, a book that I like is Running MS-DOS, by Van Wolverton, the publisher is Microsoft Press. The problem with that book is that there is material that is superfluous with regard to their needs. The book covers the material well, but they might have difficulty determining what they actually need. [Note: I bought this book myself, and like it --- Tom Lane] If they want, they can call WordPerfect and ask them for the name of a Certified WordPerfect instructor in their area (I'm currently in the process of obtaining that status). WordPerfect also has an online tutorial that comes with the program. Excel has a tutorial also, but that might be too much to ask of the personnel. As far as PFS Professional File, you're on your own with the manual. They have a tutorial book, but as with most programs, you'll have to comb the manual (no pain, no gain). --------------- -- tom lane Internet: tgl@zog.cs.cmu.edu UUCP: <your favorite internet/arpanet gateway>!zog.cs.cmu.edu!tgl BITNET: tgl%zog.cs.cmu.edu@cmuccvma