gatesl@netcom.UUCP (Lee Gates) (07/13/89)
I posted an article about a week and a half ago about a deal from
a computer dealer in Menlo Park (CA) that will have HP Deskjets for $350.
I asked for information from people who have them, and what were the
disadvantages by not getting the deskjet+, and as promised, here is a
summary of what I received. I have decided that at that price, it is well
worth it, since I only need it for text output, as I will be returning to
school in the fall. The deskjet is slow at graphics, and doesn't support
landscape, while the + is faster 2x text, and 5x graphics, and does have
built in landscape. Aside from that, there weren't many differences people
cited. If you have any other comments, please let me know.
thanks
lee
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gatesl@netcom.uucp
-----------------------------summary-------------------------------------
I own a DeskJet (not a +) that I've had for over a year now. I would
recommend it for most uses, although it has a few problems. One is that
it is slow in graphics mode and it uses water-soluble ink. The first
problem is fixed by buying the +, the second is being worked on at HP.
I also recall that the + uses a slightly different format for downloading fonts
so that fonts designed for the + sometimes look better. I saw a sample
of Times Roman italics from a DeskJet and a +, and the + was MUCH better
looking. (In fact, Times italics are kinda ugly on the old DeskJet.)
I have (honestly) never had a piece of paper jam in the printer. I have
NOT had good luck with the envelope feed, though--but with water-soluble
ink, who wants to address their envelopes with this printer? You do need
****************************************************************************
I have been getting allot of mail about the DeskJet+ so I wanted to
post this information to answer common questions.
Here is a summary of the technical differences between a DeskJet and
a DeskJet+.
1. The DeskJet+ has an 8MHZ Z180 processor with 64K of RAM and 256K of ROM.
The DeskJet has a 4MHZ Z80 processor with 32K of RAM and 128K of ROM.
2. The DeskJet+ has a new paper motor that runs twice as fast.
3. The DeskJet+ has a different "sled" which allows a better priming
algorithm.
Note: These three facts imply that the basic parts needed to upgrade
a DeskJet are 1) a new logic board, 2) a new paper motor, 3) a new
sled. This also implies an upgrade is not simple and it would be
easy to blow up a power supply, smoke the new logic board, and break
a part of the sled assembly. On the other hand, I, a mere CS type have
upgraded 2 DeskJets to DeskJet+s and haven't broken or blown
up anything yet.
4. The DeskJet+ has twice as large an addressing space allowing for
twice as large ROM and RAM cartridges. Hence there are new DeskJet+
only font cartridges and there is a 256K DeskJet+ RAM cartridge for
soft fonts. (By the way, the DeskJet+ will download soft fonts
about 4 times faster than the DeskJet).
5. Due to the increased processor speed, increased RAM, and some other
hardware/software tweeks the DeskJet+ will print graphics from the
Centronics port 5 times faster than a DeskJet. When the serial
port is used the DeskJet+ graphics speed is limitted by the baud rate,
not the printer. WARNING: Your application probably cannot generate
graphics data as fast as the DeskJet+ can accept it unless you are using
a very fast PC or some very smart software. Hence the actual "speed up"
relative to a DeskJet is host and application dependant. The maximum
rate a DeskJet+ can do a page of 300DPI graphics is just about 1 page
per minute. The DeskJet could do 1/5 a page per minute (a page in 5
minutes).
6. Simple text is printed at 120CPS on both the DeskJet and the DeskJet+.
However the DeskJet+ can keep up with this maximum rate in more complex
cases (multiple fonts in a pass and so forth) as well as pick up and
move paper faster. Both the DeskJet and DeskJet+ are rated at 2 pages
per minute for text, but the DeskJet could only really do the most
simple text at this rate whereas the DeskJet+ can do more complicated
text at the same 2PPM rate.
7. The DeskJet+ has landscape mode built in, this is optional on the
DeskJet. WARNING: The landscape support on DeskJet was intended for
printing simple spreadsheets. There is no support for mixed text and
graphics in landscape mode nor is there support for proportionally
spaced landscape fonts via font cartridges. Hence if you primarily
want a printer to do fancy spreadsheets with nice proportionally spaced
text in landscape mode you would be better off with a laser printer. The
technical reason proportional spaced landscape fonts are not possible
is due to a hardware limitation of the chip that actually reads the
font cartridges and renders the image on the page so there is not
a software tweak I can make to workaround the problem. Hence if
you get a DeskJet or DeskJet+ you should "write off" ever expecting
to do anything real fancy in landscape mode unless its graphics only.
Now the DeskJet+ does do nice fancy spreadsheets (i.e. via Excel) in
portrait mode, but not landscape. This warning only applies to applications
and hosts that render text with the built in fonts. Hosts such as
an Atari which only send out graphics and render the text images internally
do not suffer from this same problem since in this case the printer only
sees graphics and the PC does all the work of rotating, scaling, and so forth.
8. Due to changes in the internal hardware, the DeskJet Epson FX80 emulation
cartridge will not work in a DeskJet+. There is a DeskJet+ version of this
cartridge. This Epson emulation cartridge will print graphics 3 times faster
than the original DeskJet emulation cartridge (which was comparable in
speed to the actual Epson FX80).
9. The DeskJet+ supports internal fonts of up to 30 point, whereas the
DeskJet supported fonts up to 15 points (technically 36 point for the
Plus and 18 point for the DeskJet are possible but these fonts must have
no descenders).
10. There is no difference in print quality or waterfastness between
the DeskJet and DeskJet+ since this is an ink cartridge, rather than
a printer issue. The waterfastness issue is getting allot of attention
and eventually there should be a new waterfast ink cartridge that
can be plugged into the DeskJet family printers but I cannot make
promisses or give any time frames.
11. The DeskJet+ will retail for $995 and the DeskJet will now retail
for $795. This is not a technical difference but it is significant.
Personally, if you factor in the cost of a landscape cartridge for
a DeskJet and an "A" (courier italics) cartridge which are both
built in to the DeskJet+ the price difference is negligible. On a
related note, we have price reduced our font cartridges by about
30%.
Presently there is no plan to offer an official upgrade to convert
DeskJets into DeskJet Plusses. A supported upgrade would be expensive
relative to the cost of the printer (could easily be close to $400).
Although an unsupportted unofficial "roll your own" upgrade would
be possible it would have no warranttee, and if you hook up a cable
wrong and smoke a board you would have to pay again for any
part you smoked. Servicing such an unofficial upgrade might be
difficult, however it would be hard to tell the difference between
a properly upgraded DeskJet and an actual DeskJet+. Also if
you use the DeskJet Epson cartridge you would need to buy a new
DeskJet+ Epson cartridge.
************************************************************************
The old DeskJets plug their ink cartridges more often, too. One unplugs
them by standing over a garbage can and blowing into the hole in the ink
cartridge until a drop of ink comes out. Both DeskJets are very sensitivde
'to the brand of paper used. I was really upset that HP didn't offer an
upgrade; I really need landscape for my spreadsheets. . . An HP employee
told me that the upgrade is available within HP; you replace the circuit
board and the print head mechanism.
************************************************************************
I have an HP DeskJet. I have not used the DeskJet + so I cannot give you
any comparison information, but I'll tell you what I can about the older
DeskJet. First, it can handle either one or two 128k memory cartridges if
you plan on using downloadable fonts. They plug into the slot that font
cartridges plug into so if you need both, you can only have one plug-in
cartridge and one memory module. Second, graphics printing on the DeskJet
is infuriatingly SLOW!!!. The instant I can afford a LaserJet, I will be
dumping the DeskJet. For LQP, however, you cannot beat the quality for the
price. The quality if fantastic and $350 is a fantastic price. Just be
aware that the supply of fonts is quite limited, and fonts over 14pt are
limited to Presentation 18pt. No 24pt or 30pt downloadables are available
that I know of. To give you an idea of how slow the graphics mode is, it
takes about 45 minutes to one hour to draw a moderately complex GEM
drawing. If you have three or four to print, you do it at night. It is
extremely quiet, however, compared to impact printers. If you aren't going
to do much graphics, I'd probably go for the cheapie. It really is a good
value, despite it's shortcommings. It's just that I'm used to a LaserJet
at work...
**************************************************************************
I just bought the HP Deskjet Plus (should be on my desk minutes from now),
HP's literature has been vague at times about the differences between the
DJ and the DJ+. Here are the differences (confirmed by several sources):
1. Deskjet Plus HAS landscape (courier) fonts built in. DJ required an
optional font cart. to get the landscape (courier).
2. DJ+ is faster due to better/faster paper handling.
3. (Most important) The Proportional font spacing tables used in the DJ
has some minor errors. Therefore, right justified text may/may not line
up. (even though your software says it is lined up). The DJ+ has corrected
this problem. This causes an incompatibility between the printers, as
some newer font carts. will work ONLY with the DJ+. All DJ carts will
work with the DJ+, but the prop. spacing ones have been reworked for the
DJ+.
As far as price goes, $350 is a steal! I've seen the DJ for as low as $550,
but that is a bargain! If anything, HP does offer some "upgrade" price for
the DJ+. I think it was $100 credit for the DJ, or something insignificant
like that.. Call them to find out.. You may be able to get a DJ+ real cheap
by upgrading your cheap DJ!
Give me a few weeks, and I'll give you my reactions to the printer. Everyone
I've talked to says "Get one!"......
****************************************************************************
that's it, sorry so long, but I felt the info was very good.
lee
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gatesl@netcom.uucpho@fergvax.unl.edu (Tiny Bubbles...) (07/14/89)
OK, here goes nothing. I'm in the market for a printer. Unfortunately, I too have been spoiled by a Mac/LaserWriter combo at work, so I would really like letter-quality output. This restricts me to: a laser printer (hmm.. perhaps in a few years after that lottery ticket comes in); a 24-pin printer (loud, with an awful draft mode); or a DeskJet (don't take your reports into the rain). First off: I've heard rumors about the DeskJet being fairly incompatible, and needing special drivers. Not having a printer now, I own no word processing software. Do major WP packages (read "WordPerfect 5") have DeskJet drivers, or does HP supply some? What is landscape? This keeps getting thrown around, and I am totally lost. How expensive are font cartridges for the DJ? Do some programs (read "WP5") let you download fonts to it, or do you have to buy yet more programs to do this? How many fonts does it come with standard? How hard is it to get downloadable fonts for it? What cartridges are available? I was considering an Epson LQ-510. Does anyone have any background info on this printer? It costs about $320 to mail-order the sucker; is it worth it to save up for a) the DJ? b) the DJ+? (DJ+ is a lot more expensive, no?) Since the printer issue has been beaten to death by more knowledgeable folks already, please send responses via e-mail. And remember, you're dealing with someone who understands the difference between 8 and 24-pin dot matrix, and the DJ, but not much more (i.e., please explain terminology if you use it). Thanks in advance. --- ... Michael Ho, University of Nebraska <ho@fergvax.unl.edu>
dlow@hpspcoi.HP.COM (Danny Low) (07/18/89)
>First off: I've heard rumors about the DeskJet being fairly incompatible, >and needing special drivers. Not having a printer now, I own no word >processing software. Do major WP packages (read "WordPerfect 5") have >DeskJet drivers, or does HP supply some? The Deskjet is unique and requires its own driver. However support for it is very common. WP does specifically support it. The Deskjet does have an Epson emulation mode but you have to buy a special cartridge for it. >What is landscape? This keeps getting thrown around, and I am totally lost. Landscape is portrait rotated 90 degrees. In other words take your 8.5 x 11 paper and print sideways on it. >I was considering an Epson LQ-510. Does anyone have any background info on >this printer? It costs about $320 to mail-order the sucker; is it worth it >to save up for a) the DJ? b) the DJ+? (DJ+ is a lot more expensive, no?) I have the older LQ500. Unless it has changed significantly, printing envelopes and labels on it is a pain. The print quality is quite good. It also has font cartidges but these are not anywhere close to the selection with the Deskjet. Basically if you can afford it, get the Deskjet. The LQ500 is a good cheap printer but not as good the Deskjet. Better yet, get the DJ+. Disclaimer: I work for HP but have nothing to do with the Deskjet product line. Danny Low "Question Authority and the Authorities will question You" dlow%hpspcoi@hplabs.hp.com ...!hplabs!hpspcoi!dlow
ellisond@gtephx.UUCP (Dell Ellison) (07/18/89)
In article <1078@unocss.UUCP>, ho@fergvax.unl.edu (Tiny Bubbles...) writes: > > What is landscape? This keeps getting thrown around, and I am totally lost. Landscape refers to the orientation of the print on the paper. When the paper is oriented so that the shortest side is at the top, then it is called Portrait. When the paper is oriented so that the longest side is at the top, then it is called Landscape.
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (07/19/89)
I personally have owned the origninal desk jet for about a year, and have had very few compatiblity problems with it. I've used the built-in courier fonts and the TMS Roman cartigde with it. It seems to be compatible with virtually all the programs that I have tried that work with the Laserjet+. Indeed, HP does supply drivers with the printer, and there are additional drivers available by sending in a card. The difference is in the way some programs that generate raster graphics make their images. It seems that lotus 1-2-3 version 2.01 sends only one or two raster lines at a time as it prints. This results in an excruciatingly long print time of almost 20 minutes/page. Once I switched to the HP driver, it sends 50 lines at a time, which lowers the time to about 4 minutes per page, which is nearly on par with the Laserjet+. I use the microsoft word version 3 .PRD files that came with word with no problem. HP does have a .PRD files which rearranges some of the font definitions. This is because some the cartidges for the deskjet contain a different mix of fonts than the laserjet+. For me, there was no need to switch drivers. In all cases, the documentation is excellent, and there has been no hassle in loading the additional drivers. The only limitation I can think of is an exceedingly brain-damaged program that does PCL graphics in an order that would require the deskjet to scroll the paper backwards. The deskjet will not scroll backwards, as that would result in smearing of the ink before it could dry. In character mode, there is no problem in scrolling backwards, as the image of the page is buffered before printing when PCL escape sequences are present; I suppose there are some rare occasions when you could get caught with your pants down in text mode, but I haven't seen any in the last year. Here at the plant, we've recently started receiving the deskjet plus printers. They are really nice. They use a full Z-80 processor as opposed to the Z-8 CPU in the non-plus version. There is also enough memory in the printer that it can do landscape mode without needing to buy fonts or the optional RAM cartridge. The paper handling has also seemingly been sped up on the plus version. It is one of the nicest printers you can buy at that price. By the way, HP has leaked to the press that it plans to introduce a new budget laser printer this fall that is well under the $2K list price. Street pices could be a lot lower than that. Maybe it would be worth waiting a few months to see what materializes in HP's new printer line-up Bill
ritchie@hpldola.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) (07/24/89)
>Here at the plant, we've recently started receiving the deskjet >plus printers. They are really nice. They use a full Z-80 >processor as opposed to the Z-8 CPU in the non-plus version. There >is also enough memory in the printer that it can do landscape mode >without needing to buy fonts or the optional RAM cartridge. The >paper handling has also seemingly been sped up on the plus >version. The DeskJet has a Z-80, and the DeskJet+ has a Z-180/64180. Dave I Don't build them, just own one.