pt@beta.lanl.gov (Paul A. Thiessen) (07/25/89)
Hello world! I recently posted an article asking for opinions or experience or advice or whatever, about Mylex and Micronics motherboards. Because there was substantial interest, I am posting this summary. I decided to go with the Micronics 25MHz, w/ 32K cache and 1MB 80ns RAM. I got it for $1795 from Hokkins Systemation. (I may have been able to get it somewhat cheaper, but not much.. anyway, they had them in stock, and I had it in my hands two days after ordering the thing...) I will post an article telling how it works later after I get my system set up. Thanks much to all who took the time to respond! - Paul Here are the responses I got: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 19:22:02 -0500 From: nghiem@vondrake.cc.utexas.edu (Alex Nghiem) Message-Id: <8907150022.AA24836@vondrake.cc.utexas.edu> To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Help wanted with Mylex & Micronics MB's Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.misc,comp.misc In-Reply-To: <28151@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Cc: Status: RO I've been looking at this myself. So far I have determined: 1. Systems with AMI BIOS consistenly got Editor's choice from PC Magazine 2. If the board has memory cache, make sure it has the Intel cache controller. A propriety design may fail. 3. If the board has shadow ram, make sure that it works with the video card you intend to use, and make sure you can disable it if it does not work properly. 4. Micronics has a good reputation, while Mylex looks like a competive newcomer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Article 2442 of comp.sys.misc: Path: beta!lanl!cmcl2!rutgers!deimos.cis.ksu.edu!eecea!psb From: psb@eecea.eece.ksu.edu (Phil Buckland) Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.misc,comp.misc Subject: Re: Help wanted with Mylex & Micronics MB's Keywords: advice wanted Message-ID: <681@eecea.eece.ksu.edu> Date: 14 Jul 89 22:30:18 GMT References: <28151@beta.lanl.gov> Reply-To: psb@eecea.UUCP (Phil Buckland) Distribution: na Organization: Kansas State University, Manhattan Lines: 20 Xref: beta comp.sys.ibm.pc:35815 comp.sys.misc:2442 comp.misc:7046 In article <28151@beta.lanl.gov> pt@beta.lanl.gov (Paul A. Thiessen) writes: >Hi! > I'm planning to buy an 80386 25 MHz motherboard. I've found a few good >deals on Micronics and Mylex brands. > Does anyone have any opinions or experience with either of these two >brands? If you plan to run XENIX, do *not* use the Mylex motherboard. While considering how to upgrade his system (PC Limited 286 with Inboard), a friend of mine found out that the Mylex motherboard wouldn't run XENIX. This is true *only* for their 25MHz '386 motherboard - the 20MHz and 16MHz do not have this problem. He finally settled on a 25MHz '386 board from AMI. I have no knowledge regarding the Micronics motherboard. Phil Buckland Computer Engineer psb@eecea.eece.ksu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jul 89 23:01 EDT From: <JGG%PSUVM.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu> To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mylex motherboards anyone? Status: RO The current (August) issue of PC World contains the following statement on page 111, in discussing a Zeos 386-25/DT computer: "Unfortunately, the Mylex 007 motherboard proved quite problematic. The first one we tested suffered heatstroke within 15 minutes and died. Its replacement worked better but still occasionally locked up because of overheating. Zeos agrees that the Mylex motherboard is more temperature sensitive than the AMI and says that Mylex is working on the problem." (Note that this particular board has a cache and several "unique" features, which is why the magazine chose to test it. Incidentally, this article tests four inexpensive 25-MHz clones and rates only one of them trouble free.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jul 89 21:59:00 PDT From: heiho%girtab.usc.edu@usc.edu (Hei Ho) Message-Id: <8907180459.AA20062@girtab.usc.edu> To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mylex motherboards anyone? Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc In-Reply-To: <28251@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Status: RO Someone in the news group has said that Mylex doesn't run Xenix. I own a Micronics 25 mhz 386 and have no experience with the Mylex, I just thought I should let you know before you make a "mistake". Good luck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 89 09:48:30 EDT From: gwr@gomez.mitre.org (Gordon W. Ross) Message-Id: <8907181348.AA02008@gomez.mitre.org> To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Help wanted with Mylex & Micronics MB's Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.misc,comp.misc In-Reply-To: <28151@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA. Cc: Status: RO I recently purchased a MYLEX 386-20 with 4Mb for <$1600. One thing I like about this board is that it works fine with 100 nS. memory (cache is static RAM, 25 nS.) which makes adding more memory very economical. This is more important to me than having the highest clock rate available. Other neat features are: clock switchable between 8 and 20 MHz, and the cache can be enabled and disabled. Both selections are possible via software or a keyboard sequence. The documentation is excellent and written in real English! I guess you are aware of their two year warranty. I am obviously a happy customer! Gordon Ross ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mylex & Micronics MB's: which? Newsgroups: comp.unix.i386,comp.unix.xenix In-Reply-To: <28269@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: Wynalda Litho Inc, Rockford MI Cc: In article <28269@beta.lanl.gov> you write: >Hello. > Does anyone out there have any in-depth experience with either or both >of Mylex and Micronics 25MHz motherboards? I have heard that the Mylex >will not run Xenix. Does it have any other compatibility problems? What Whoever you heard this from was MISINFORMED. Mylex guarantees Xenix compatibility and will replace the board if you dont get it running (I had them guarantee this for me when I assembled a system) Daniel Wynalda >about the Micronics? > If you have any information on these MB's, please let me know, as I am >planning to buy one of them... > I've never used the micronics however. Sorry -- Daniel Wynalda | Telephone: (616) 866-1561 X22 Ham: N8KUD Wynalda Litho Inc. | Network: danielw@wyn386.UUCP ..sharkey!wyn386!danielw 8221 Graphic Ind Pk. | Diskclaimer: If you find a disk with no label, it is Rockford, MI 49341 | the one I lost. I say what I say for me ONLY here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 89 10:16:11 PDT From: heiho%girtab.usc.edu@usc.edu (Hei Ho) Message-Id: <8907181716.AA26425@girtab.usc.edu> To: pt%vixen%LANL.GOV@usc.edu Subject: Re: Mylex motherboards anyone? Status: RO Paul, I have only had the motherboard (Micronics 25 mhz 386 ... just a reminder) for a few days, so I can't really tell you too much about it. The first problem I had was the motherboard came with 1 meg (256k chips) of static RAM, and it can be expanded to 2 meg with another meg of 256k static RAM chips....anyway, because I wanted to run Unix, so I have to get rid of the original 1 meg of static RAM and put 4 meg of 1 M chips there. Hummmm.... I don't think I explained that too well...but the point is if you want more than two meg of memory, you have to "throw" the original (the 1 meg that comes with it) away....to me, that would be a waste...but I was lucky enough that the guy that sold me the motherboard took the memory back for $150. I encountered a couple of minor software problem, but they are so minor that I don't think it really make a difference to anyone. For example, I use the Logitech mouse and the setup program doesn't run. And a couple of public domain utilities don't run....To me, these are very minor problems.....nothing to write home about. I am going to try to install AT&T UNIX on it today or tomorrow, so by the time you reply to this message, I should be able to tell you a little more. Anyway, so far I have been happy with this machine. It has 32K cache which can be expanded to 64K. It this means anything to you, Norton SI gives 30.5 which is like three times faster than my old 10mhz AT. Oh...I almost forgot...the memory between 640K and 1 M is used for video and ROM shadowing (sp?), so you don't really get 1 M out of 1 M. Now I have 4 Meg, and I only get 3.64 M useable memory. The bus (not the 32 bit one) speed can be changed from 8.3 mhz to 12.5 mhz which really speed up some I/O. I think I have said enough....Micronics has really good reputation, so I think it should be less risky than others....only my opinions and don't quote me on that. If I can be of any further help, let me know and I will be happy to provide any further info. Good luck. Hei --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 89 10:32:45 PDT From: heiho%girtab.usc.edu@usc.edu (Hei Ho) Message-Id: <8907181732.AA26614@girtab.usc.edu> To: pt%vixen%LANL.GOV@usc.edu Subject: Re: Mylex motherboards anyone? Status: RO It uses Phoenix Bios, and on the Bios, it says 1.10 10, I believe that is the version number. Yes, it does use the Intel 82385 (?) cache controller. If I have time, I will install Unix today and I will let you know how it goes....mind you this particular version of Unix that I am installing is from AT&T which is optimized for their machines, so I am not 100% sure that it will work on other machines (such as mine). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 89 10:13:28 edt From: msdc!esa@gatech.edu (Esa T. Ahola) Message-Id: <8907181413.AA04785@msdc.msdc.com> To: pt%beta.lanl.gov@gatech.edu Subject: Re: Mylex motherboards anyone? Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc In-Reply-To: <28251@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: Medical Systems Development Corporation Status: RO In article <28251@beta.lanl.gov> you write: >Hi! > Does anyone out there own or use regularly a Mylex (25 MHz) >motherboard? If you could write me a brief message telling me about >your Mylex, good and bad experiences, compatibility problems, etc., >I'd be grateful. I'm planning to buy one soon (probably) and I want >to make sure I'm doing the right thing... > Thanks in advance for any information! Sorry, I can't offer any first hand experience, but I have been collecting articles discussing 386 motherboards for some time now. This is hearsay, but you may want to verify the facts with Mylex: Someone said that the 25Mhz Mylex board would not run Xenix, while the 16 and 20Mhz boards would. It is my impression that Mylex was the board of choice a year or two ago. Today, AMI and Micronics seem to be on top. (Actually, I think Mylex is made by AMI...?) You mentioned in an earlier article that you had a cheap source for Mylex and Micronics boards -- care to share? -- Esa Ahola esa@msdc.msdc.com esa@msdc.uucp ...!gatech!msdc!esa Medical Systems Development Corporation (MsdC), Atlanta GA (404) 589-3368 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 89 16:27:08 cdt From: terry@eecea.eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) Message-Id: <8907182127.AA02086@eecea.eece.ksu.edu> To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mylex & Micronics MB's: which? Newsgroups: comp.unix.i386,comp.unix.xenix In-Reply-To: <28269@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: Kansas State University, Manhattan Cc: Status: RO In article <28269@beta.lanl.gov> you write: >Hello. > Does anyone out there have any in-depth experience with either or both >of Mylex and Micronics 25MHz motherboards? I have heard that the Mylex >will not run Xenix. Does it have any other compatibility problems? What >about the Micronics? I tried to buy a Mylex board from USM Distributors, and they said they were no longer selling Mylex 25 Mhz boards because of compatability problems with UNIX. I called another distributor a week earlier, and they told me Mylex was backordering all 25 Mhz boards because of "production problems." Sorry I do not remember that vendor's name. I ended up buying a AMI board from USM, and it is GREAT! Worked first time, right out of the box. I am now running XENIX 2.3 on it and it is FASSSST! -- Terry Hull Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University Work: terry@eecea.eece.ksu.edu, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!terry Play: terry@tah386.manhattan.ks.us, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!tah386!terry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: terry@eecea.eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) Message-Id: <8907182138.AA02317@eecea.eece.ksu.edu> To: pt@vixen.lanl.gov In-Reply-To: Paul A. Thiessen's message of Tue, 18 Jul 89 15:30:58 MDT <8907182130.AA01958@vixen.lanl.gov.> Subject: Mylex & Micronics MB's: which? Status: RO Date: Tue, 18 Jul 89 15:30:58 MDT From: pt%vixen@LANL.GOV (Paul A. Thiessen) > ended up buying a AMI board from USM, and it is GREAT! Worked first > time, right out of the box. I am now running XENIX 2.3 on it and it > is FASSSST! Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for your AMI? How much RAM? Does it have cache? I'm just curious- I've already bought a Micronics. $2600 - 4 MB with 64K cache. Thanks for taking the time to respond! You are welcome. -- Terry Hull Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University Work: terry@eecea.eece.ksu.edu, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!terry Play: terry@tah386.manhattan.ks.us, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!tah386!terry --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: icdi10!fr@uunet.uu.net (Fred Rump from home) Status: RO To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mylex & Micronics MB's: which? Newsgroups: comp.unix.i386,comp.unix.xenix In-Reply-To: <28269@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: From Home but normally @ Compudata Inc. Phila PA In article <28269@beta.lanl.gov> you write: >Hello. > Does anyone out there have any in-depth experience with either or both >of Mylex and Micronics 25MHz motherboards? I have heard that the Mylex >will not run Xenix. Does it have any other compatibility problems? What >about the Micronics? > If you have any information on these MB's, please let me know, as I am >planning to buy one of them... Who says the Mylex doesn't run Xenix? You may have some problems with smart multiport cards if you don't get their special PAL for memory cashing to be stopped in high memory. But otherwise they work fine. FRED RUMP -- This is my house. My castle will get started right after I finish with news. 26 Warren St. uucp: ...{bpa dsinc uunet}!cdin-1!icdi10!fr Beverly, NJ 08010 domain: fred@cdin-1.uu.net or icdi10!fr@cdin-1.uu.net 609-386-6846 "Freude... Alle Menschen werden Brueder..." - Schiller ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: voder!nsc!sun!aeras!foxy!misha@hc.dspo.gov Date: Wed, 19 Jul 89 12:09:24 PDT Message-Id: <8907191909.AA24643@sun.Sun.COM> To: aeras!lanl!beta!pt Status: RO Subject: Re: Help wanted with Mylex & Micronics MB's In-Reply-To: <28151@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: Arix Corporation, San Jose, CA. In article <28151@beta.lanl.gov> you write: >Hi! > I'm planning to buy an 80386 25 MHz motherboard. I've found a few good >deals on Micronics and Mylex brands. > - Paul I personally prefer the Micronics 2525 Weitek 25Mhz board with 32k direct mapped cache expandable to 64k two-way set. It has more flexible speed settings than Mylex and I think Mylex can't shadow Bios. Micronics can either shadow the Bios or cache accesses to it (this includes screen bios too). The Micronis boards are also several hundred dollars cheaper than Mylex for similar configuration and they also include a battery on motherboard. What is the best deal that you have for a 4 Mb Micronics 25 Mhz board? I have a 3 months old board that I want to sell because I decided to go for the 33Mhz board. I am asking $2500 for my 4Mb 25Mhz Micronics 2525 Weitek board but I am also open for offers. Good luck. misha -- NAME: Michael Umansky (sun!aeras!foxy!misha) WORK: Arix Corp.; 821 Fox Lane; San Jose, CA 95131 HOME: 4331 Lincoln Way; San Francisco, CA 94122 PHONE: (408) 922-1751 (work); (415) 564-3921 (home) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 89 09:33:08 PDT From: "Andrew J. Schwab" <ajs@eesun1.ee.virginia.edu> Message-Id: <8907201633.AA02534@eesun1.ee.Virginia.EDU> To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: mylex Status: RO Paul, I am currently looking into Mylex 386 boards for myself and I am having difficulty deciding between the MI386-20 and the MX386-25. The MI386-20 seems like a good buy because it has been around for awhile and I haven't read anything that indicates any problems with it. Its shortcomings are 8MEG memory max on the motherboard with 8MEG max expansion and more limited control on bus clock speeds. The MX386-25 looks like it has many user configurable features. I consider this a big plus because you can sometimes overcome compatibility problems if you have control over bus timings, etc. This board also can handle up to 32MEG memory. The best price I have found so far is from MicroSource Distributors. MI386-20 $995 0K MX385-25 $1425 0K With 4MEG RAM the 20 would go for about $1700. If you know of a less expensive source I would like to know about it. Also, if you could summarize the responses you have received about Mylex I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance. Andy Schwab ajs@Virginia.EDU ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 89 12:44:19 ADT From: comcon!tim@uunet.uu.net (Tim Brown) Message-Id: <8907202144.AA19172@comcon.UUCP> To: uunet!beta.lanl.gov!pt@uunet.uu.net Subject: Re: Mylex & Micronics MB's: which? In-Reply-To: your article <28269@beta.lanl.gov> News-Path: uunet!ginosko!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!purdue!haven!adm!cmcl2!lanl!beta!pt Status: RO The AMI-20/25 MB is a pretty smooth product. Very well engineered. I have two in service, and have used others. --- Tim Brown | Computer Connection | uunet!comcon!tim | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: AMI Award vs Phoenix BIOS? Info wanted. Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.misc,comp.sys.misc In-Reply-To: <28252@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: AT&T DSG Holmdel, NJ Cc: Message-Id: <8907211309.AA10679@holin.att.com> Date: 21 Jul 89 13:09:41 EDT (Fri) From: doc@holin.att.com (David Mundhenk) Status: RO Here is a tidbit I grabbed regarding an AMI product: [stuff deleted] ] ] Especially impressive is the BIOS. It's from AMI and dated 3-3-89. Upon ] boot it configured itself; no setup was really necessary! It correctly ] identified my hard drive and both floppies (1.44 and 1.2) and wrote these ] values to the CMOS, as well as my memory (or lack thereof) configuration. ] ] I did go and enable the BIOS shadowing, as this really improved video times. ] ] All in all, I would highly recommend this board to anyone wanting a good ] machine. It will accept a 287, 387, or Weitek (sp?) coprocessor, if that's ] important to you. ] ] Ok, that's my lastest experiance with mail order, I hope it helps someone. ] ] Feel free to EMAIL if you have any questions. ] ] (I, of course, have no connection with JDR, IC Express, AMI, or anyone.) ] ] -- ] --------------------------------------------------------- ] | Greg Philmon ...gatech!dekalb!greg CIS: 72261,1724 | ] --------------------------------------------------------- ] Dave Mundhenk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: EMAIL: ...!att!holin!doc | "I can't complain but | /^, VOICE: (201)-580-4943 | sometimes I still do"| / } _, , , __ #include <std.disclaimer> | - Joe Walsh | /_./ (_l |/ <~_ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: axaris@cs.buffalo.edu (Vassilios Axaris) Message-Id: <8907221909.AA04671@marvin.cs.buffalo.edu> To: pt@beta.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mylex motherboards anyone? Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc In-Reply-To: <28251@beta.lanl.gov> Organization: SUNY/Buffalo Computer Science Cc: Status: RO Hello Paul, According to the latest (or latest - 1) PC Computing/World (not quite sure on the name) a clone sporting a 25 Mhz Mylex would hang up every 15 minutes due to overheating. The Mylex people of course went straight to work but you have to make sure when talking to the dealer, to get the latest revision of the board. Hope I've been of some help. I would appreciate any findings since I intend to upgrade to 386 myself. Yours sincerely, Vassilios E. Axaris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 1475 of comp.unix.i386: Path: beta!lanl!hc!ames!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!netsys!vector!chip From: chip@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Chip Rosenthal) Newsgroups: comp.unix.i386 Subject: Re: Mylex & Micronics MB's: which? Message-ID: <311@vector.Dallas.TX.US> Date: 23 Jul 89 21:36:13 GMT References: <28269@beta.lanl.gov> <312@csense.UUCP> Reply-To: chip@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Chip Rosenthal) Distribution: na Organization: Dallas Semiconductor Lines: 33 In article <312@csense.UUCP> bote@csense.UUCP (John Boteler) writes: >Why not just buy an AMI 386 motherboard and be done with it? > >Clean design that works, with a real company behind it. > >And lots of memory expansion room, lots of slots, a real BIOS, etc. Not that I want to engage in a "my board is better than your board" war, but I would prefer to see some real information instead of this trash. My experience is with the Micronics, and I fail to see how these arguments apply. Memory expansion room - The baby Micronics supports 8 meg. Are you saying that isn't enough? Lots of slots - it has eight slots, plus one for memory. Are you saying the AMI board has more? If so, don't you start running into problems with supply load and cooling? Do additional slots provide you any advantage when interrupt vectors seem to be a scarce resource? A real BIOS - I'm not sure what advantage this has when you run an operating system which doesn't use BIOS. I'm also not quite sure what's unreal about the BIOS I have. Please note that I'm not saying the Micronics boards is better than AMI. I'm just saying that I would be more interested in a reasoned discussion of the differences. Comments on the memory architectures, especially cacheing are especially welcome. In the future, unsubstantiated cheap shots like this are probably not needed in the comp.unix.all tree. Exceptions made for AIX discussions in comp.unix.i386 :-) -- Chip Rosenthal / chip@vector.Dallas.TX.US / Dallas Semiconductor / 214-450-5337 "I wish you'd put that starvation box down and go to bed" - Albert Collins' Mom ****************************************************************************** -- ------------------------------------------------------------ PAUL THIESSEN (Summer only: pt@lanl.gov) pthiessen@hmcvax.bitnet ...uunet!jarthur!pthiesse ------------------------------------------------------------