t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen) (08/12/89)
Hi! I'm looking for a programmer's editor with the following qualities. I know of several that meet *some* of these but haven't yet met any that meets them all. o Extensible user interface via a program language. (With a ready-to-use emacs style command set.) o Multiple over-lapping windows. o Mouse support. (If you have used Logitech's Point then you know what I mean by this..) o re-configurable menus. + Can edit (simultaneously) 10-30 files with a total length much greater than the available memory. + Can run a make-utility without leaving editing. Preferrably swaps itself to disk for the duration of the make. AND if it captured the output.. o=required +=would like.. -- /\ | | Quote of the month: /__\ |__| "Klein bottles for sale -- inquire within" / \ | | (______\ri_| |uttunen_________ahuttune@hupu.hut.fi____________________________
rogers@orion.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Brynn Rogers) (08/12/89)
In article <T36273C.89Aug12013758@saha.hut.fi> t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen) writes: >Hi! I'm looking for a programmer's editor with the following qualities. I >know of several that meet *some* of these but haven't yet met any that meets >them all. 1|o Extensible user interface via a program language. (With a ready-to-use | emacs style command set.) 2|o Multiple over-lapping windows. 3|o Mouse support. (If you have used Logitech's Point then you know what I | mean by this..) 4|o re-configurable menus. 5|+ Can edit (simultaneously) 10-30 files with a total length much greater | than the available memory. 6|+ Can run a make-utility without leaving editing. Preferrably swaps itself | to disk for the duration of the make. AND if it captured the output.. |o=required |+=would like.. |(__________ahuttune@hupu.hut.fi________ I have looked and looked for the same thing, and these are my conclusions: Epsilon meets 1,2,5,6. I assume that 4 is for mouse support MicroEmacs ver 3.1? meets 1,2,3,4. You can do 6, but it is useless for make because it doesn't swap itself out to disk. JOVE ver 3.9 ?? meets 1,2. FREEMACS meets 1,2, and maybe 5 Goslings EMACs meets 1,2. 25x80 ONLY I have settled on using Epsilon because [5,6] are more important to me then the mouse. It is perfectly possible to write your own mouse interface for epsilon, but I haven't tried yet. Meets item 6 completly, but I generaly just push-to-dos (gets me a dos shell and swaps all but 3k of itself to disk or EMS or XMS) do my make sending my output to a file, then exit back to epsilon. I Know you can run a DOS command and capture the output, and swaps most of epsilon out. You can also edit really huge files (>>1 meg!) with epsilon and it doesn't complain AND it is orders of magnitude faster than any other editor I have seen that does this. One final feature that switched me to epsilon is the ability to tell it how big my screen is. I have discovered how to use the many,many text modes a Orchid prodesigner+ can handle (25,26,28,30,33,36,40,43,46,50,54,60 x80; 36,40,42,46,50,56,62,66,75 x 100; to name a few) and epsilon just looks at an environment varible that says my screen is 46 rows of 100 characters. Epsilons only drawback is its price: $195 list about $160 mail order. Microemacs has really nice mouse support and has many nice features, but I could not get it to do item 6, and I think it barfs when you try to edit megabyte long files. memacs can handle 25,43, and 50x80 screens and is either shareware or PD (I forget) JOVE is a pretty nice version of emacs, and I used it for quite a while. I find it really easy to customize, but I found it slow when editing huge files (like the MSDOS interrupt list). I have heard that you can get it to see 43x80 and 50x80 screens, but I never got that to work. FREEMACS is one I can't remember much about. Gosling EMACS from Unipress software has not been supported for years and is incapable of handling bigger than 25x80 screens. The only thing it has going for it is its extension language, which is Mock-lisp. GNU EMACS meets 1,2,3,4,5,6; but it will be many moons before you can get it. If you have a 386 with gobs of memory, sooner or later GNU emacs will be running on a PC. This will be my choice when I have a 386 and gobs of memory, but that is a couple years away for me. Brynn Rogers Honeywell S&RC rogers@src.honeywell.com work 612-782-7577 home 874-7737
terry@tah386.manhattan.ks.us (Terry Hull) (08/12/89)
In article <27714@srcsip.UUCP> rogers@src.honeywell.com (Brynn Rogers) writes: > GNU EMACS meets 1,2,3,4,5,6; but it will be many moons before you can >get it. If you have a 386 with gobs of memory, sooner or later GNU emacs will >be running on a PC. This will be my choice when I have a 386 and gobs >of memory, but that is a couple years away for me. I am editing this posting with GNU Emacs running on a PC. I think that means it works now!!!! The machine is a '386 with 4 MB of memory and I'm running XENIX 2.3.1. -- Terry Hull Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University Work: terry@eecea.eece.ksu.edu, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!terry Play: terry@tah386.manhattan.ks.us, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!tah386!terry
Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (08/13/89)
In article <27714@srcsip.UUCP>, rogers@orion.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Brynn Rogers) wrote: }In article <T36273C.89Aug12013758@saha.hut.fi> } t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen) writes: }>Hi! I'm looking for a programmer's editor with the following qualities. I }>know of several that meet *some* of these but haven't yet met any that meets }>them all. } }1|o Extensible user interface via a program language. (With a ready-to-use } | emacs style command set.) }2|o Multiple over-lapping windows. }3|o Mouse support. (If you have used Logitech's Point then you know what I } | mean by this..) }4|o re-configurable menus. }5|+ Can edit (simultaneously) 10-30 files with a total length much greater } | than the available memory. }6|+ Can run a make-utility without leaving editing. Preferrably swaps itself } | to disk for the duration of the make. AND if it captured the output.. } }|o=required }|+=would like.. } }I have looked and looked for the same thing, and these are my conclusions: } }Epsilon meets 1,2,5,6. I assume that 4 is for mouse support }MicroEmacs ver 3.1? meets 1,2,3,4. You can do 6, but it is useless for make } because it doesn't swap itself out to disk. }JOVE ver 3.9 ?? meets 1,2. }FREEMACS meets 1,2, and maybe 5 }Goslings EMACs meets 1,2. 25x80 ONLY I've sent a more detailed summary to Ari, but I'll add that Borland's Sprint meets 1, 3, 4, 5. It has multiple windows, but not overlapping, merely horizontal slices of the screen, so it only partially meets point 2. Add in PD1:<MSDOS.SPRINT>SPTURBO.ARC from SIMTEL20, and it also meets 6, and parses Turbo {Pascal,C,Assembler} error messages to take you right to them. It swaps itself out except for a 1.3K stub, and doesn't use ANY additional disk space while swapped! Also, it will run on virtually any display ever built, including serial terminals (if it doesn't have a definition for your display, you can write your own). -- UUCP: {ucbvax,harvard}!cs.cmu.edu!ralf -=-=-=-=- Voice: (412) 268-3053 (school) ARPA: ralf@cs.cmu.edu BIT: ralf%cs.cmu.edu@CMUCCVMA FIDO: Ralf Brown 1:129/46 FAX: available on request Disclaimer? I claimed something? "Drama is life with the dull bits left out." -- Alfred Hitchcock
ho@fergvax.unl.edu (Tiny Bubbles...) (08/14/89)
From article <T36273C.89Aug12013758@saha.hut.fi>, by t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen): > Hi! I'm looking for a programmer's editor with the following qualities. I > know of several that meet *some* of these but haven't yet met any that meets > them all. You may want to try Multi-Edit. (Current version, 4.0a). > o Extensible user interface via a program language. Yes. The entire existing user interface is written in that macro language. > (With a ready-to-use emacs style command set.) No. Good luck finding a PC program other than emacs that has this. > o Multiple over-lapping windows. Yes. > o Mouse support. (If you have used Logitech's Point then you know what I mean Well... it has mouse support, but not good mouse support. I've used a Mac for too long - "mouse support" means scroll bars. No scroll bars. But the pull-downs are useable from a mouse. Much easier. > o re-configurable menus. Yes. With the macro language. > + Can edit (simultaneously) 10-30 files with a total length much greater > than the available memory. Yes. But in this mode, I hope you have EMS, as its disk swapping routines are slow. Probably doesn't matter if you're not running a clunker like me (20mb Seagate slowdrive + 8 MHz XT clone). > + Can run a make-utility without leaving editing. Preferrably swaps itself > to disk for the duration of the make. AND if it captured the output.. Yes on all three counts. Trial versions are available on most BBS'es as ME401A.ZIP, or probably on Simtel also. --- ... Michael Ho, University of Nebraska <ho@fergvax.unl.edu>
hollen@eta.megatek.uucp (Dion Hollenbeck) (08/15/89)
From article <T36273C.89Aug12013758@saha.hut.fi>, by t36273c@saha.hut.fi (Ari Huttunen): > Hi! I'm looking for a programmer's editor with the following qualities. I > know of several that meet *some* of these but haven't yet met any that meets > them all. > > o Extensible user interface via a program language. (With a ready-to-use > emacs style command set.) > o Multiple over-lapping windows. > o Mouse support. (If you have used Logitech's Point then you know what I mean > by this..) > o re-configurable menus. > + Can edit (simultaneously) 10-30 files with a total length much greater > than the available memory. > + Can run a make-utility without leaving editing. Preferrably swaps itself > to disk for the duration of the make. AND if it captured the output.. What you want is Multi-edit. The only capability which it does not support is overlapping windows. And mouse support is not as extensive as with Point. It does however have a very extensive and easy to use programming language. Since all its menus are created with its programming language, I am sure that you could create an alternate user interface. Key bindings are configurable. It already has macros which are language sensitive and will create templates (if, while,...) with a 2 key sequence. You can define and command line to be executed as the "compile" command (which can be a make command) which is language sensitive. It will swap overflow to disk or EMS. You can shell to DOS and perform DOS functions from within the editor. I currently use Emacs at work on UNIX and am very pleased with the performance and useability of Multi-edit. Demo versions are available and can be gotten from bulletin boards. Unfortunately, I do not have this editor here at work, and therefore I cannot provide name and address. If you are interested, mail me back and I will look it up at home, or maybe someone else out there has it handy. This is an editor not to be passed up!! Dion Hollenbeck (619) 455-5590 x2814 Megatek Corporation, 9645 Scranton Road, San Diego, CA 92121 uunet!megatek!hollen or hollen@megatek.uucp
sue@gtx.com (Sue Miller) (08/15/89)
In article <xyzzy> Ari Huttunen writes: - Hi! I'm looking for a programmer's editor with the following qualities. I - know of several that meet *some* of these but haven't yet met any that meets - them all. - - Extensible user interface via a program language. (With a ready-to-use - emacs style command set.) - Multiple over-lapping windows. - Mouse support. (If you have used Logitech's Point then you know what I mean - by this..) - re-configurable menus. - Can edit (simultaneously) 10-30 files with a total length much greater - than the available memory. - Can run a make-utility without leaving editing. Preferrably swaps itself - to disk for the duration of the make. AND if it captured the output.. - Try Multi-Edit by American Cybernetics, Inc. Address/phone is: 455 S. 48 St. #108, Tempe AZ 85281 (602) 968-1945. They also run a BBS: (602) 968-1082/2400 baud/N-8-1 You can get a limited demo version from the BBS. The only criterion you listed which I don't know whether ME has is the "ready-to-use emacs style command set". Maybe you should get Stallman to fix up emacs for you. :-) ME does everything else on your list. An office-mate of mine is a beta-tester for their newest version. -- listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go. __________________________________ ee cummings |Sue Miller ...!sun!sunburn!gtx!sue|
rogers@orion.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Brynn Rogers) (08/15/89)
In article <554@tah386.manhattan.ks.us> terry@tah386.manhattan.ks.us (Terry Hull) writes: #In article <27714@srcsip.UUCP> rogers@src.honeywell.com (Brynn Rogers)[me] writes: #> GNU EMACS meets 1,2,3,4,5,6; but it will be many moons before you can #>get it. If you have a 386 with gobs of memory, sooner or later GNU emacs will #>be running on a PC. This will be my choice when I have a 386 and gobs #>of memory, but that is a couple years away for me. #I am editing this posting with GNU Emacs running on a PC. I think that #means it works now!!!! The machine is a '386 with 4 MB of memory and I'm #running XENIX 2.3.1. #Terry Hull Sorry, I forgot that GNU emacs is up on virtually any machine running unix. I was talking about a GNU running on a MSDOS machine. It will be limited to a 386 with lots of memory, compiled in protected mode. Brynn Rogers Honeywell S&RC rogers@src.honeywell.com work 612-782-7577 home 874-7737
ddb@ns.network.com (David Dyer-Bennet) (08/19/89)
:In article <xyzzy> Ari Huttunen writes:
:- Hi! I'm looking for a programmer's editor with the following qualities. I
:- know of several that meet *some* of these but haven't yet met any that meets
:- them all.
:-
:- Extensible user interface via a program language. (With a ready-to-use
:- emacs style command set.)
:- Multiple over-lapping windows.
:- Mouse support. (If you have used Logitech's Point then you know what I mean
:- by this..)
:- re-configurable menus.
:- Can edit (simultaneously) 10-30 files with a total length much greater
:- than the available memory.
:- Can run a make-utility without leaving editing. Preferrably swaps itself
:- to disk for the duration of the make. AND if it captured the output..
Best thing I've found is Epsilon from Lugaru software. It's an
emacs-clone (c-like language instead of lisp). It doesn't support overlapping
windows, and it doesn't have mouse support. It has no menus (that
conflicts with your requirement of emacs-style commands anyway). It
can edit any number of files of any size (using expanded memory and
disk for swap space). It can run a true process window (of limited
size, too small for most modern compilers), but it can be active while
you're editing elsewhere; it can also swap itself else and run a make,
saving the results into a buffer for next-error processing.
Emacs-like, it has a relatively small kernel, and the rest is written
in its own extension language. They send you the source for
everything written in extension language, which is both useful and a
set of good examples. The keyboard is very rebindable. Bindings and
other things can easily be buffer-specific.
I like this thing better than anything except the real thing (i.e. GNU
Emacs) that I've used yet.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ddb@terrabit.fidonet.org
or ddb@Lynx.MN.Org, ...{amdahl,hpda}!bungia!viper!ddb
or Fidonet 1:282/341.0, (612) 721-8967 9600hst/2400/1200/300