davef@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Dave Fiske) (06/23/89)
In article <2515@lll-lcc.UUCP>, rzh@lll-lcc.UUCP (Roger Hanscom) writes: > > Just recently, I discovered that about twenty 5.25" floppies > written some 6-7 years ago are completely munged. The content > of the diskettes was no *major* loss, but it is particularly > distressing to me to find that the life span of magnetic media > is so short. What are folks doing to preserve electronically > readable data? Is there a more permanent solution? Do WORM > compact disks offer more permanence?? Some years ago, I heard a talk by someone from OCLC, which is a center which has been putting library cataloguing information online for quite a few years. They used magnetic tapes for storage, so his experience may not be precisely the same for floppies, but he said that noticeable deterioration can occur within 10 years, and that they deal with this by reading each tape and writing out a fresh copy once a year. Since floppies probably tend to get subjected more to varying magnetic and environmental conditions, I would expect they would also show deterioration over long periods of time. For most people, this probably isn't a problem, since files from, say, 5 years ago, are probably irrelevant by now. But if you have some very important archival or backup files, it probably wouldn't hurt to make fresh copies every few years. -- "MY SPACE ALIEN HUBBY DUMPED ME Dave Fiske (davef@brspyr1.BRS.COM) FOR A YOUNGER WOMAN, SOBS WIFE" Home: David_A_Fiske@cup.portal.com Headline from Weekly World News CIS: 75415,163 GEnie: davef
shapiro@rb-dc1.UUCP (Mike Shapiro) (06/29/89)
In article <6107@brspyr1.BRS.Com> davef@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Dave Fiske) writes (regarding magnetic media recording life): >Since floppies probably tend to get subjected more to varying magnetic >and environmental conditions, I would expect they would also show >deterioration over long periods of time. For most people, this >probably isn't a problem, since files from, say, 5 years ago, are >probably irrelevant by now. But if you have some very important >archival or backup files, it probably wouldn't hurt to make fresh >copies every few years. The other problem with magetic media backup (both tape and flexible disk) is the media format and recordng formats. I have some tapes which I thought were important at the time which are written on 7 track tapes at 800 bpi. They are in either CDC KRONOS or IBM unlabelled "convert mode" (3 8-bit bytes in 4 6-bit frames) format. If pressed (I don't anticipate I will be), I might be able to find hardware for reading them and could probably kludge some software if I needed to. (Several service bureaus provide conversion services, but I hope I don't need to read my tapes again. They are now souvenirs, so the quality of the data really doesn't matter.) For disks, it's getting harder and harder to find a place to read those 1 meg 8" CP/M floppies in some strange formats from less than ten years ago. I have some "critical" files in 5 1/4" Kaypro II CP/M SS/DD (200K) format from less than five years ago which I can still read on my PC clone by using an appropriate disk I/O software package. By converting to current MS-DOS format, I'll be able to read them for a while on machines with 5 1/4" drives. But it's most likely that the 5 1/4" drives will not be available two or three machines from now. (Will we still have 3 1/2" drives then?) So my financial records, important letters, and book manuscripts have been copied to disks with the current formats and will be copied to the next generation, whatever it is. In the long run, I think merely being able to read old magnetic media will be more of a problem than degraded data on them. Converting old critical files to new formats will help in solving both problems. You should probably plan on doing this each time you have a major equipment upgrade, while you still have the capability of reading the old format. -- Michael Shapiro, Encore Computer Corporation (formerly Gould/GSD) 15378 Avenue of Science, San Diego, CA 92128 (619)485-0910 UUCP: shapiro@rb-dc1 (This location will close, starting July 10. I will be moving on.)
rzh@lll-lcc.UUCP (Roger Hanscom) (07/23/89)
Just recently, I discovered that about twenty 5.25" floppies
written some 6-7 years ago are completely munged. The content
of the diskettes was no *major* loss, but it is particularly
distressing to me to find that the life span of magnetic media
is so short. What are folks doing to preserve electronically
readable data? Is there a more permanent solution? Do WORM
compact disks offer more permanence??
I've got quite a collection of software and data on 5.25",
360k diskettes. Much of the software is in .arc or .zoo format.
It doesn't take much to make a .arc file unusable. Is it better
to unpack them, even though they'll occupy more space?? It seems
to me that back-up copies are of little use to prevent the sort
of thing I'm talking about here, unless one copies his/her
entire disk library (mine is ~200-300 diskettes) every three
or four years and puts the fresh copy away. We're talking
*major* time and expense here!
Is there a preferred method of storage that will extend the
life of a diskette -- that is practical?? (I'm not about to
install an air-conditioned vault in the house!) Will packing
diskettes side-by-side, ~15 per box (similar to the way they
are packaged new) affect them adversely, or should they have
something in between (besides the sleeve)??
Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
roger rzh%freedom.llnl.gov@lll-lcc.llnl.gov
{uunet,ames,ucbvax,..}!lll-lcc!freedom!rzh
Upstairs, Over a Vacant Lot, Inc.rwh@me.utoronto.ca (Russell Herman) (08/13/89)
In article <2515@lll-lcc.UUCP> rzh@lll-lcc.UUCP (Roger Hanscom) writes: > > Just recently, I discovered that about twenty 5.25" floppies >written some 6-7 years ago are completely munged. Odd; I have floppies written in 1983 that I have no problems with. Perhaps the machine you wrote them on was out of alignment with respect to the one you are reading them on. Try a few other drives. Your office wouldn't be too near the cyclotron, would it? :-)
terrell@druhi.ATT.COM (TerrellE) (08/18/89)
In article <2515@lll-lcc.UUCP>, rzh@lll-lcc.UUCP (Roger Hanscom) writes: > > Just recently, I discovered that about twenty 5.25" floppies > written some 6-7 years ago are completely munged. The content > of the diskettes was no *major* loss, but it is particularly > distressing to me to find that the life span of magnetic media > is so short. What are folks doing to preserve electronically > readable data? Is there a more permanent solution? Do WORM > compact disks offer more permanence?? Speaking as one who has his "collected works" on 3.5" disks in a safe- deposit box, I too am very interested on the "lifespan" of magnetic media. I'm curious how you know that the 5.25" disks are really munged... Are you trying to read them with the same drive that wrote them??? If not, could it be that the drive that wrote the disks or the drive that reads them is out of alignment??? I assume that there are no big O.S. version differences between the system that wrote the disks and the one that tried to read them? What was the degree of mungedness? Could you read some files/no files??? Could you list the disk's directory??? Inquiring Minds Want to Know! Terrell (att!druhi!terrell)
jwi@lzfme.att.com (J.WINER) (08/21/89)
> > Roger Hanscom writes: > > > > Just recently, I discovered that about twenty 5.25" floppies > > written some 6-7 years ago are completely munged. The content > > of the diskettes was no *major* loss, but it is particularly > > distressing to me to find that the life span of magnetic media > > is so short.... I have no trouble reading 5.25" floppies written in 1980 on my old Osborne 1 (I still have the Osborne 1). It sounds like you have either alignment problems with your drive or you have magnetic field problems in your storage area. I have heard of print-through problems on magnetic tape in the music industry (but not the data industry), but never with floppies. I suggest, however, that there might be print-through problems if you jammed them as tight as possible in the boxes. There should be less of a problem with this with 3.5 as the cases are much thicker. Jim Winer ..!lzfme!jwi (Please don't email, unable to reply.) Those persons who advocate censorship offend my religion. Upuaut: a wolf-headed Egyptian deity | Voodoo: the art of sticking ideas assigned as Guidance System | into people and watching for the Barque of Ra. | them bleed. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily
stephen@ziebmef.mef.org (Stephen M. Dunn) (08/28/89)
In article <1577@lzfme.att.com> jwi@lzfme.att.com (J.WINER) writes:
$> > Just recently, I discovered that about twenty 5.25" floppies
$> > written some 6-7 years ago are completely munged. The content
$> > of the diskettes was no *major* loss, but it is particularly
$> > distressing to me to find that the life span of magnetic media
$> > is so short....
$I have no trouble reading 5.25" floppies written in 1980 on my old
$Osborne 1 (I still have the Osborne 1). It sounds like you have
$either alignment problems with your drive or you have magnetic field
$problems in your storage area.
Yes alignment problems do happen (ask anyone who used to use Commodore
equipment, especially the 1541 disk drive). I'd also look at your
environment for magnetic field problems.
Some things which can cause magnetic fields include
- power supplies (your computer, your disk drive, your stereo ...)
- TVs and computer monitors
- the speakers in your stereo (even small speakers generate a field, and
I wouldn't want to leave my disks near any sort of speakers for seven
years!)
- fluorescent lights
- magnets (don't laugh, people have been known to attach floppy disks to the
fridge door with magnets!)
- those nifty little gizmos that erase dictation tapes (_VERY_ strong fields
here!)
and the list goes on.
One more thing that might cause data to vanish after a few years - ultra-
cheap bargain-basement no-name $3.90-a-box disks.
--
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! Stephen M. Dunn stephen@ziebmef.UUCP ! DISCLAIMER: Who'd ever !
!---------------------------------------------------! claim such dumb ideas? !
! I have become comfortably numb ... ! I sure as heck wouldn't !