lane@cs.dal.ca (John Wright/Dr. Pat Lane) (08/31/89)
Some collegues of mine are in a terrible fix with a tape drive system on
their AT clone, specifically an Alloy APT-40 which uses DC2000 mini data
cartridges (we used 3M and DEI Series II Gold brands), records, I think,
at 500KBS, and is used through a software program called TIP40.
The drive saw relatively light use for about two years (I for one never
trusted the thing) but always worked ok. In May, someone loaded several
months of their work on a tape with no other backup (yes, I was amazed too).
Sure enough, the drive refused to read the tape. It would read up to a
point and crap out. The software then asks if you want to continue but
cannot find any more files on the tape (after *much* whirring and buzzing).
Similar problems (not as bad, but many tape errors) were observed on older
tapes which had previously been readable.
The company, when first contacted, said that there was a good ("90%")
chance that a newer model drive would fix the problem. Alloy wanted
the old drive back (which, apparently, they just trash) and something
like $250 and my friends did as they were told.
The new drive showed up (it is an Alloy Retriever/40 which is physically
similar but has a new software package and supports a supposedly error
correcting tape format; a program was supplied for reading tapes made
with the older system). It still cannot read the tapes we have (it appears
to make and read new tapes alright).
Alloy's reaction now is that we're SOL. Personally I think it was a big
mistake (one of many!) to send the original drive back. As it sounds
like this drive was mis-aligned in such a way that the misalignment got
worse as the tape went along and if there is any hope of reading the
critical tape, it is in reproducing the misalignment.
My colleagues estimate it will cost them $5000 to reproduce the work they
lost.
Questions:
1. Can any tape experts out there suggest anything we can do to recover
more data off this tape? We'll try anything!
2. Are there tape recovery services that have specialized equipment and
software to do this kind of work? Pointers/Recommendations?
3. Is this typical for this kind of tape drive? To crap out so miserably
after two measley years (of very little use) does not impress me for great
reliability. As well, this drive struck me as ponderously slow. Every
time you turned around it would "retension" the tape, winding it back and
forth from one end to the other for about two minutes while you twiddled
your thumbs. A very frustrating piece of machinery. Are they all like
this? Recommendations for better systems?
4. Should we have expected better from Alloy. Their drive dies after a
couple of years (admittedly past the warranty), they soak us for another
wad of $$$, and then say "well, too bad about the old tapes; new ones
should be ok" (for how long, I wonder). This experience does not inspire
me to say nice things about this company. How about you?
Please mail me with any suggestions you may have for my friends' perdicament.
They are desperate!
John Wright ////////////////// Phone: 902-424-3805 or 902-424-6527
Post: c/o Dr Pat Lane, Biology Dept, Dalhousie U, Halifax N.S., CANADA B3H-4H8
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--
John Wright ////////////////// Phone: 902-424-3805 or 902-424-6527
Post: c/o Dr Pat Lane, Biology Dept, Dalhousie U, Halifax N.S., CANADA B3H-4H8
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Arpa:lane%dalcs.uucp@uunet.uu.net Internet:lane@cs.dal.cafredb@llama.rtech.UUCP (Fred Buechler) (09/07/89)
In article <1989Aug31.104848.11605@cs.dal.ca> lane@cs.dal.ca (John Wright/Dr. Pat Lane) writes: > >3. Is this typical for this kind of tape drive? To crap out so miserably >after two measley years (of very little use) does not impress me for great >reliability. As well, this drive struck me as ponderously slow. Every >time you turned around it would "retension" the tape, winding it back and >forth from one end to the other for about two minutes while you twiddled >your thumbs. A very frustrating piece of machinery. Are they all like >this? Recommendations for better systems? > >4. Should we have expected better from Alloy. Their drive dies after a >couple of years (admittedly past the warranty), they soak us for another >wad of $$$, and then say "well, too bad about the old tapes; new ones >should be ok" (for how long, I wonder). This experience does not inspire >me to say nice things about this company. How about you? > >Please mail me with any suggestions you may have for my friends' perdicament. >They are desperate! > I've got no suggestions for what you can do, but I am *very* interested in whatever advice other people may have mailed you. I have the Alloy Retriever/40 and have had problems with it. I've had backups that I couldn't restore and tapes that I couldn't add another backup session on. The most distressing (and consistent) problem is that I have to format each tape before I use it. If I don't, it gets partially through the backup and reports a bad sector/sector not found error. There is no recovery from this. You just have to start over. After restarting 3 or 4 times, the bad sector count (in the tape statistics) is seriously high. Then I format the tape. Very few bad sectors, the backup and verify run just fine. I DO NOT trust this backup system at all! I called the dealer and they just ran the diagnostics that came with the backup software. It always passes the diagnostics with no problem, the dealer says it must be a bad tape, etc. I called Alloy and they said to call the dealer. I'm not very happy and I haven't had much time to fool around with the thing or do anything else about solving the problems. Fred Buechler Concord, Ca Work: (415) 748-2439
theroo@pekin.med.unc.edu (Bron D. Skinner Ph.D.) (09/09/89)
It is interesting to hear that others have had difficulties as described by these individuals using Alloy tape backup systems. We have had similar experiences with a couple of Genoa cassette type backup units. What should be a relatively straight forward process taking no longer than 10-20 minutes to backup a 20 MB hard disk can turn out to be a 1-2 hour process with no guarantees that there will be success in the end. We have experienced all the tape write errors described, the slowness of the system in retensioning and rewinding and so on. The slowness would be acceptable if the reliability of writing out the data were better. We have just about given up using these systems entirely and are moving to trying to backup data only with either a backup program or DOS BACKUP. Our organization is planning for the installation of a network installation in a new building for next spring. Part of the network design includes a tape backup unit on the server. But I am not very confident that this will give us the kind of security we really want to have for our programs and data. Tape units could become expensive ways to backup if the mean time between failure is as low as this discussion would tend to indicate it is. I would be interested in how others are handling this issue. Are there reliable units? Does reliability get better on higher capacity tape backup systems (60MB plus)? Are there alternatives which are about equal in cost, but which yield better reliability? Bron D. Skinner, Ph.D. Coordinator, Information Systems Department of Family Medicine, UNC-CH theroo@med.unc.edu
rcw@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Robert White) (09/10/89)
>I would be interested in how others are handling this issue. >Are there reliable units? Does reliability get better on higher capacity >tape backup systems (60MB plus)? Are there alternatives which are about >equal in cost, but which yield better reliability? I have used an internal Everex-60 tape backup unit for the past three years with 100% reliability. It will backup a 20 megabyte disk in about 10 to 15 minutes, and the tapes do not have to be formated. I paid about $600 for the unit three years ago. Robert White
wales@gidday.enet.dec.com (David Wales) (09/11/89)
In article <517@uncmed.med.unc.edu>, theroo@pekin.med.unc.edu (Bron D. Skinner Ph.D.) writes... }I would be interested in how others are handling this issue. }Are there reliable units? Does reliability get better on higher capacity }tape backup systems (60MB plus)? Are there alternatives which are about }equal in cost, but which yield better reliability? I use an Archive 60MB 1/2 height internal drive and it is great. It uses DC600 type tapes and achieves about 3.5-4MB/minute when backing up file by file and about 5.5MB/min in image mode. Retensioning is not mandatory but I usually do an erase before the backup which takes care of retensioning anyway. Don't give up on tapes as it sure beats feeding floppies in every 30 seconds. =============================================================================== | | Internet: wales@gidday.enet.dec.com | | David Wales - Sydney Australia | DEC Easynet: gidday::wales | | | FIDOnet: 3:712/502 (Paragon BBS) | | "Only 38 years 'till retirement!" | UUCP: ...!decwrl!gidday!wales | | | | | Opinions expressed are mine and | Voice: (61) 02-868-3937 A/H | | mine only! | (61) 02-412-7334 B/H | | | | ===============================================================================
keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (09/11/89)
In article <517@uncmed.med.unc.edu> Bron D. Skinner Ph.D. writes: >It is interesting to hear that others have had difficulties as described >by these individuals using Alloy tape backup systems... >... >I would be interested in how others are handling this issue. >Are there reliable units? Does reliability get better on higher capacity >tape backup systems (60MB plus)? Are there alternatives which are about >equal in cost, but which yield better reliability? Standard equipment for all AT (Clones) around here is a(n Everex 811B) QIC-02 tape interface card to which one of our several itinerant ("constantly moving around") tape drives can be attached. These have proven to be very reliable and easy to use. Capacity is 60 Mbytes per cartridge, and the Everex-provided software prompts for subsequent cartridges as you fill them up. Backups can be doen in file mode or image mode. The manual claims that the image mode can be used to backup (and restore) non-DOS drives. It also claims that (DOS) file restores can be extracted from image backups. (I say "the manual claims" becaus I haven't ever tried these: I do file backups and restores.) Verification of backup tapes is also available with a "compare" function. As I recall, a complete system is in the neighborhood of $850; a single interface card is around $110. We buy them from K.I.S. Computer Center 519 Mantague Expwy. Milpitas CA 95035 (408) 942-8088 If you call, ask for Angie Wong - tell her I sent you. kEITHE Keith Ericson @ TekLabs
harper@rigel.uucp (David Harper) (09/12/89)
In article <517@uncmed.med.unc.edu> theroo@uncmed.med.unc.edu (Bron D. Skinner Ph.D.) writes: >It is interesting to hear that others have had difficulties as described >by these individuals using Alloy tape backup systems. We have had similar >experiences with a couple of Genoa cassette type backup units. > [some text deleted] >I would be interested in how others are handling this issue. >Are there reliable units? Does reliability get better on higher capacity >tape backup systems (60MB plus)? Are there alternatives which are about >equal in cost, but which yield better reliability? > >Bron D. Skinner, Ph.D. Coordinator, Information Systems >Department of Family Medicine, UNC-CH >theroo@med.unc.edu I have not used the Alloy or Genoa units so I cannot really comment on these. However, I have used the Mountain Computer tape backup units on 4 systems over the past 3 years and have been extremely pleased with the results. These units take the DC2000 cassettes (40 MB) and plug into the 34 pin floppy connector. Units manufactured within the last couple of years can cohabit with floppy drive B so that you don't have to give up one of your existing floppy drives (you do have to get a three drive ribbon cable however). The drives are not that fast (it takes me a little over 20 minutes to back up a 33 Meg partition) but I have found them to be extremely reliable. I have had many cases where I have had to recover data from tapes that were written over two years ago and have yet to have any hint of problems. I have also had no problems with portability - on many occasions I have recorded tapes on one drive and read them in on another drive with no problems. If any of the drives ever retenisoned a tape, they made sure I was out of the room before they did it. In fact, in all this time the only 'problems' that I have ever seen are very infrequent tape formatting problems. I have had a few cases where the number of sector format errors was excessive and one case where a new box of Sony cassettes wouldn't format at all (after a certain number of media errors the software calls the tape bad and gives up). I normally use 3M tapes and they seem to work quite well. I probably ought to clean the heads more often than I do too - I've cleaned them once so far and I do incremental backups almost daily and full backups once a week. The software that came with the units is easy to use although there are a few features that I would like to see opperate differently. In these few cases, however, I have been able to hack together a batch file or "C" program to accomplish what I wanted. I have not priced any new units recently, but they were around $300 at a local discount house when I got them. I understand that 'jumbo' units are starting to become available now (ie: 60 Meg and 80 Meg) although I cannot comment on these.
bruce@tolerant.UUCP (Bruce Hochuli) (09/12/89)
In article <517@uncmed.med.unc.edu> theroo@uncmed.med.unc.edu (Bron D. Skinner Ph.D.) writes: > >I would be interested in how others are handling this issue. >Are there reliable units? Does reliability get better on higher capacity >tape backup systems (60MB plus)? Are there alternatives which are about >equal in cost, but which yield better reliability? > I have set up three systems using the Teac 60MB tape with the Everex controller. Two of the systems alternated between XENIX and DOS and one was DOS only. No reliability problems of any kind. The speed of the tape backup is limited by the speed of your system. One of the systems was the Everex Step 20 (20mhz 386 with smooth cache) and it could do the whole backup while streaming. I was also using the windows disk caching software. The backup took about 15 minutes for about 40 mb. This was lovely. The other systems (16Mhz NEC 386 no cache, generic 286 8Mhz clone) were a lot slower. One had to walk away or in XENIX do it in the background. The Everex software looks like it was written by a guy who had never done a user interface and had just discovered color. It uses every color it can find, really ugly. But it works. The other minor annoyance is that the only was to get to the tape is through the Everex software, no drivers for DOS. There is a XENIX driver for the 286 version and the last time I checked (about a year ago), no driver for the 386 XENIX. I was running 286 XENIX on my 386 NEC at the time and I was waiting for the new XENIX which was supposed to support these tapes directly.