sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (08/17/89)
Do any of you know of a source for the 3.5" "hole punchers" to allow a 720K floppy to be formatted to 1.44Mb? I'd prefer to get one of these rather than modify my drive. There's an ad in Byte for one from an outfit called "Biological Engineering, Inc." but they want $39.95. This seems a bit pricey, especially considering that 5-1/4" disk notchers sell for $4.95. Also, ordering something made by a pair of self-admitted "Crackpot Engineers" doesn't precisely instll the utmost confidence within me... Is there a better (i.e. cheaper) source? Is this a tool that someone with reasonable mechanical skills but lacking access to a machine shop can fabricate themselves?? Thanks for your advice. Scott kubla@uiuc.edu
nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) (08/19/89)
In article <111700136@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
Do any of you know of a source for the 3.5" "hole punchers" to allow a 720K
floppy to be formatted to 1.44Mb?
This may sound incredibly crude, but just take a soldering iron and melt a
a hole. Take a 720K, open the write protect hole, turn it over, and use that
hole to mark another 720K (they're symmetrical). Warm up a soldering iron
good and hot, and melt a 1/8" hole. After it cools in a few seconds, use a
utility knife to trim off the excess on the outside. Then format it as
a 1.44 Meg.
--
--russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu])|(70441.205@compuserve.com)|
(Russ.Nelson@f360.n260.z1.fidonet.org)|(BH01@GEnie.com :-)sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kubla Khan) (08/21/89)
You're the second person who's mentioned the soldering iron technique; evidently it's quite popular (you guys must love the smell of burning plastic :-) Here's one I haven't seen mentioned (but I'm sure someone else has thought of already): Take your handy-dandy Craftsman variable-speed reversible power drill, stick an 11/64" bit into the chuck, mark the correct spot using a hammer and punch, and drill yourself a nice clean hole. It worked great for me! If you're partial to square holes, Radio Shaft sells a nibbling tool for around $10 or so which can be used to square out the hole made by the drill (however the round holes work fine on my Toshiba drive). Not as quick and neat as the "Crackpot Engineer Punch", but if you already have the power drill (and who doesn't?) it's certainly a lot cheaper (and faster than the soldering iron technique). Happy Formatting! Scott kubla@uiuc.edu Scott Coleman kubla@uiuc.edu
nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) (08/21/89)
In article <1810@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu> sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kubla Khan) writes:
Take your ... drill ..., and drill yourself a nice clean hole.
Little bits of plastic would make my floppies unhappy.
--
--russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu])|(70441.205@compuserve.com)|
(Russ.Nelson@f360.n260.z1.fidonet.org)|(BH01@GEnie.com :-)JLI@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (08/21/89)
In article <NELSON.89Aug20210358@sun.clarkson.edu>, nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) writes: > In article <1810@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu> sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kubla Khan) writes: > > Take your ... drill ..., and drill yourself a nice clean hole. > > Little bits of plastic would make my floppies unhappy. > You should be an experienced user of drills. I have been using drills to get nice clean holes on 3.5" floppies without any (almost) little bits of plastic. Frankly, I do get some small bits, but if you can clean them up, your floppies will be happy. By the way, does anyone encounter data loss problem using this kind of modified 1.44 MB floppies? I have had some such problems even though I was using high quality DSDD diskettes (I have tried some generic 720K floppies, and failure rate was too high). There is a company selling a disk hole-puncture tool, using which you can get a nice hole on 3.5" disk (I don't remember its name, you can find it on Computer Shopper). I haven't been drilling holes for quite a while, not because that I am getting rich but that I don't want my valuable data getting lost. Good luck to you all. --- A former 3.5" disk hole-driller
gordon@eecea.eece.ksu.edu (Dwight Gordon) (08/21/89)
In article <NELSON.89Aug20210358@sun.clarkson.edu> nelson@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >In article <1810@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu> > sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kubla Khan) writes: > > Take your ... drill ..., and drill yourself a nice clean hole. > >Little bits of plastic would make my floppies unhappy. > Mine Too! Additionally, the disks that I purchase are such that the top and bottom pieces of plastic do not meet at the point of the hole, thereby allowing dust and dirt to enter the area around the media if the plastic is not sealed around the hole! The smell of melting plastic (not burning, as I have a low-wattage soldering iron) is not my favorite, but it not only makes the hole, but seals the hole's edges - preventing foreign particles from entering the area around the media. Dwight W. Gordon | 913-532-5600 | gordon@eecea.eece.ksu.edu Electrical & Computer Engineering Department | dwgordon@ksuvm.bitnet Kansas State University - Durland Hall | rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!gordon Manhattan, KS 66506 | {pyramid,ucsd}!ncr-sd!ncrwic!ksuvax1!eecea!gordon
sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kubla Khan) (08/21/89)
In article <800@eecea.eece.ksu.edu> gordon@eecea.UUCP (Dwight Gordon) writes: >> >> Take your ... drill ..., and drill yourself a nice clean hole. >> >>Little bits of plastic would make my floppies unhappy. >> >Mine Too! Additionally, the disks that I purchase are such that the top >and bottom pieces of plastic do not meet at the point of the hole, thereby >allowing dust and dirt to enter the area around the media if the plastic >is not sealed around the hole! Thanks, guys, for pointing this out - I hadn't thought of that. Of course, this latter problem can occur with the use of the hole punchers, as well... Maybe there's a puncher model which includes a small hot plastic injector to squirt a small amount of molten goo into the newly punched hole to seal it immediately after punching...? >The smell of melting plastic (not burning, >as I have a low-wattage soldering iron) is not my favorite, but it not >only makes the hole, but seals the hole's edges - preventing foreign >particles from entering the area around the media. And to top it off, your method is probably the cheapest (especially if you go to Radio Shaft and buy their $3.49 iron to use specifically for the purpose). Scott Coleman kubla@uiuc.edu
janh@hplsla.HP.COM (Jan Hofland) (08/21/89)
I fabricated an aluminum plate the same size as the floppy with a 5/32 hole drilled at the correct location. I overlay this plate on the floppy to be drilled and then drill it out using a variable speed drill at about as low a speed as I can get it to turn. Use a sharp drill and bear down with some pressure and you will get the plastic shavings to come out in a few twisted pieces. No plastic bits left inside the disc jacket so far. Jan Hofland
jbjones@marlin.NOSC.MIL (John B. Jones) (08/21/89)
In article <1810@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu> kubla@uiuc.edu (Kubla Khan) writes: >You're the second person who's mentiond the solderng iron technique; evidently >it's quite popular (you guys must love the smell of burning plastic :-) > >Here's one I haven't seen mentioned (but I'm sure someone else has thought of >already): Take your handy Craftsman variable-speed reversible power drill, >stick an 11/64" bit into the chuck, mark the correct spot using a hammer and There have been some horror stories over this 3.5" slot punching business, with the doomsayers moaning that the data goes bad after not very long. So far I've had no problems; I DO think the drilling gambit could cause problems however. Drilling the hole produces a ton of plastic chips and particles, and an open crack leading to the disk itself for them to work their way into; if *one* of these particles gets past the felt protection pads of the disk and onto the data surface, you are hosed. It would be the eqivalent of Mt Rushmore bouncing accross your neighborhood :-). This may well be the reason for problems some have had. jbjones@marlin.nosc.mil ...speaking for myself alone
davidsen@sungod.crd.ge.com (ody) (08/21/89)
I hate to admit it but the other night I really needed a 1.44 and I
drilled a 720 with the tip of a pocket knife. Just put the tip on the
right spot and rotated. Then I repeated from the other side. Worked
fine.
bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM)
{uunet | philabs}!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -mewist@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bundy Wist) (08/22/89)
Another solution for you hardware hackers is to actually bypass the switch sensor that looks for the 1.4/720 hole. On my TEAC 1.4M, this switch is just opposite the write protect switch. I ran two wires from the switch to a two pole switch on the back of my computer.I installed this switch so my drive can still read those ancient 720K disks whenever I come across them. Otherwise, it thinks any 3.5" disk I put in there is a 1.4M disk regardless of the notches in it. No probs as of yet (except no other "normal" 3.5" drives can read my 1.4M disks because they are still in the 720K shell--- let's keep it that way :) -- bundy wist@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
sac90286@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kubla Khan) (08/22/89)
In article <13809@netnews.upenn.edu> wist@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bundy Wist) writes: >Another solution for you hardware hackers is to actually bypass the switch >sensor that looks for the 1.4/720 hole. On my TEAC 1.4M, this switch is just >opposite the write protect switch. [Description of simple yet tedious hardware modification omitted] My Toshiba drive has a small jumper on the bottom for the density select method. It comes jumpered for density select based on the hole/lack of hole, but I briefly experimented with changing the setting. Took all of 5 minutes (and most of that was just removal/replacement of the floppy drive itself.) No soldering in tight little spaces required! >of the notches in it. No probs as of yet (except no other "normal" 3.5" >drives can read my 1.4M disks because they are still in the 720K shell--- >let's keep it that way :) This is precisely why I chose to return the jumper to its normal setting - what good is a floppy disk if only _I_ can make use of it? That's what I have a hard disk for! I want floppies so that I can transport files to other machines. Of course, this is only my own preference - I'm sure you have your reasons for not wanting to take floppies you write on your system over to your office or a friend's house... :-) Scott Coleman kubla@uiuc.edu
mms00786@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (08/28/89)
I was burning holes in 69 cent 3.5" DD disks from MEI Micro Devices. Initially, they all worked; as in formatted to 1.44M, and I stored a bunch of files on them. Then, about two months later, I tried to read them off - well, crash and burn. Could only recover half the files. I'll be reading them, and get the Data Error reading Drive B error. So I assume that burning holes wasn't such a good idea. It might have something to do with the fact that the files were written to them from a IBM Model 70. Didn't those have some kind of problem with oil leaks in their drives? Milan mms00786@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu . `
ncperson@ndsuvax.UUCP (Brett G. Person) (09/07/89)
In addition to the obvious problems of the data going bad from the possible plastic chips on the disk surface, what about these same chips getting on the heads of your drives? I'd be more worried about damaging the drives than loosing data. -- Brett G. Person North Dakota State University uunet!ndsuvax!ncperson | ncperson@ndsuvax.bitnet | ncperson@plains.nodak.edu
akcs.amparsonjr@vpnet.UUCP (Anthony M. Parson, Jr.) (09/15/89)
Seems that everyone I know with a 720/1.44 drive is trying to use 720K
floppies with a second hole. If it's true that data is lost, because the
media quality is not as good as it should be for 1.44 density, there will be
a _LOT_ of unhappy hackers before Christmas. I'm trying it anyway. I use
the soldering iron technique, with an aluminum form to precisely do the hole.
After formatting each at 1.44, I do a CHKDSK on each. So far I've used them
with Fastback. Only 18 disks @ 1.44M, compared to 66 disks @ 360K, in much
less time!
Tony
(_GOT_ to get a fancier tag line)