[comp.sys.ibm.pc] Humor me

jbjones@marlin.NOSC.MIL (John B. Jones) (09/07/89)

>|             ACER 386/20 MotherBd AT Jr.   Anyone familiar with this?
>  Look for another motherboard which allows use of DIP instead. There
>are a few which take up to 4MB DIP *and* 4 MB SIMM.

Please, a few morsels for the ignorant...

What is a SIMM? What is DIP?  What is the difference between these two?
Go ahead and post, I guess; it would probably be beneficial to the group
at large.  Thanks for explanations.

jbjones
jbjones@marlin.nosc.mil

davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (09/08/89)

In article <1214@marlin.NOSC.MIL>, jbjones@marlin.NOSC.MIL (John B. Jones) writes:
|  Please, a few morsels for the ignorant...
|  
|  What is a SIMM? What is DIP?  What is the difference between these two?
|  Go ahead and post, I guess; it would probably be beneficial to the group
|  at large.  Thanks for explanations.

  Since I mentioned it, here's what I meant: the SIMM is a Single Inline
Memory Module. What that means is that it is a component which is high
and narrow, and has a single line of connectors on the bottom. A DIP is
a Dual Inline Package, which looks like a typical "chip," having a row
of pins down each side of the chip.

  The SIMM saves board real estate while the DIP is cheaper. I suspect
that the cost of making them is about the same, per MB, but that the
chip makers feel the SIMM is "better" and charge a lot more for it. Note
that I don't state this reason as a fact. DIPs are 1 bit wide, so for a
16 bit computer you need at least 18 (16 bits plus parity), while SIMMS
can be made wider, in 8 bit (no parity, for Macs and system which don't
bother to check errors) and 9 bit (for PC types).
 ________________________________________________________________
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|  Going on vacation... be back 9/18 or 9/25 weather permitting  |
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-- 
bill davidsen	(davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen)
"The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called
'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see
that the world is flat!" - anon

silver@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Andy Silverman) (09/08/89)

In article <307@crdos1.crd.ge.COM> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes:
>DIPs are 1 bit wide, so for a
>16 bit computer you need at least 18 (16 bits plus parity), while SIMMS
>can be made wider, in 8 bit (no parity, for Macs and system which don't
>bother to check errors) and 9 bit (for PC types).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the number of bits wide a given chip is entirely
up to the chip designers, and is not a function in any way of the packaging
involved.  You can get DIP-packaged memory chips in 1, 4, and probably 8
bits wide, it's just that the most popular memory chips (say for memory 
expansion of your generic PC) are the 1 bit wide variety. SIMMs are generally
just 9 surface mounted 1 bit wide memory chips on a small board which mounts
vertically in a slot designed specially for it.



+-----------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Andy Silverman        | Internet:   silver@eniac.seas.upenn.edu |
| "All stressed out and | Compu$erve: 72261,531                   |
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ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Raymond Dunn) (09/13/89)

In article <307@crdos1.crd.ge.COM> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes:
>DIPs are 1 bit wide, so for a........

In article <14155@netnews.upenn.edu> silver@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Andy Silverman) responds:
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but the number of bits wide a given chip is entirely
>up to the chip designers....
>You can get DIP-packaged memory chips in 1, 4, and probably 8
>bits wide

So far so good.....

>SIMMs are generally
>just 9 surface mounted 1 bit wide memory chips on a small board which mounts
>vertically in a slot designed specially for it.

Now you fall into the same trap your response is correcting.

SIMMs can and do commonly contain any format of chips, 1, 4 and 8 bits wide,
even _mixtures_ (often to produce 9 bit wide SIMMS commonly used on PC's for 8
bits plus parity).

On the original question of cost, SIMMS are more expensive than DIP chips
because SIMMS are made from DIPS mounted on a small PC board with connector
fingers.

The cost of the board and the mounting of the chips is obviously going to
produce a cost increment over that of the individual chips, even when compared
to a single chip with the same number of bits as that on the SIMM.
-- 
Ray Dunn.                    | UUCP: ..!uunet!philmtl!ray
Philips Electronics Ltd.     | TEL : (514) 744-8200  Ext: 2347
600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | FAX : (514) 744-6455
St Laurent. Quebec.  H4M 2S9 | TLX : 05-824090

davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (09/19/89)

In article <701@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Raymond Dunn) writes:
|  In article <307@crdos1.crd.ge.COM> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes:
|  >DIPs are 1 bit wide, so for a........
|  
|  In article <14155@netnews.upenn.edu> silver@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Andy Silverman) responds:
|  >Correct me if I'm wrong, but the number of bits wide a given chip is entirely
|  >up to the chip designers....

  You're obviously correct, but if a vendor wants to sell a chip, it had
better either be what the market expects or something very much better.
In the case of DIPs, the standard has been 1 bit for large sizes, with
some items also available in 4 bit. I often wondered if there would be a
markey for a four byte wide chip with ECC on the chip, and two status
pins coming out for "soft error" and "hard error." Because of the way
most ECC works, it is cheaper to do ECC on more bits wide, since schemes
like Hamming take log2N+1 bits for the correction data (6 bits of ECC
data for 32 bits of "normal" data).
-- 
bill davidsen	(davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen)
"The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called
'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see
that the world is flat!" - anon