djo7613@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) (09/25/89)
I generally keep up on legal issues in the software world, as best I can. But a user came up with a query the other day that I couldn't give a clear answer to, so I petition for a dose of net.wisdom to help me advise this user. She purchased a copy of First Publisher, Version 2 I guess, some time back. Then she upgraded to the next number (2.1?), and was sent a new manual and an entire new disk set...in other words, "the works." The upgrade price was not equivalent to the purchase price, but was more like $30 as I recall. Her question was, "Can I give my copy of 2.0 to my folks, for playing around on their home PC?" This stumped me a bit from the purely legal standpoint (I *know* it happens a lot in "reality"). If you actually "owned" the software, the answer would be YES, but since you only license it, probably the answer is NO. But does that restriction bar you from RESALE only, or from all possible "redistribution," including charitable donations? (One might argue that donation to parental users might fall in that category!) Does "simultaneous use" come into play here at all? The more I thought about it, the more questions came up. What does Microsoft want QuickBasic 4 owners to do with QB Version 3? Can IT be given away freely? Or Central Point, whose PC Tools Version 5 completely obviates the need to keep old versions like 4.3 around...would they prefer users hang onto them, or can THEY be recycled, again without compensation? Perhaps there's a general principle here; perhaps it's a variable, depending on the company involved. What do YOU consultants and advisors say when YOUR people ask you? "Moby" Dick O'Connor ** DISCLAIMER: It would Washington Department of Fisheries ** surprise me if the Olympia, Washington 98504 ** rest of the Department Internet Mail: djo7613@blake.u.washington.edu ** agreed with any of this!
mbb@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (martin.b.brilliant) (09/26/89)
From article <3772@blake.acs.washington.edu>, by djo7613@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor): > ..... > She purchased a copy of First Publisher, Version 2 I guess, some time back. > Then she upgraded to the next number (2.1?), and was sent a new manual and > an entire new disk set...in other words, "the works." ...... > > Her question was, "Can I give my copy of 2.0 to my folks, for playing > around on their home PC?" ..... If you actually > "owned" the software, the answer would be YES, but since you only license it, > probably the answer is NO. Read The Fine Print. (RTFFP, maybe.) The FFP on some software packages says you have bought a nontransferrable license. On other packages the FFP says you can transfer the license if you don't keep any copies. In either case, making a copy for someone else while you use the original is an obvious violation of law. If you are given a copy, the FFP has to tell you what you are allowed to do with it, and with the original. If the original license you bought covers both copies, you can't give away the original because you have no license to give away with it. If you got a new license for the new version, and the original license is transferrable, you can give away the old license with the old version. If the FFP doesn't specify, I would assume you can do what you like; any software peddler who doesn't tell you that deserves no sympathy. Look: you paid for a new 2.0, plus a smaller amount for the upgrade, and you have your money's worth: a new 2.1, plus an old 2.0. The publisher might even consider 2.0 as a demo version. The new holder of the old 2.0 is not registered, and therefore would have to pay full price for 2.1, so it's a floating advertisement for 2.1. > Perhaps there's a general principle here; perhaps it's a variable, > depending on the company involved. What do YOU consultants and > advisors say when YOUR people ask you? Excuse me for butting in. All I know is what I R in TFFP. But that's all some consultants and advisors have to go by. M. B. Brilliant Marty AT&T-BL HO 3D-520 (201) 949-1858 Holmdel, NJ 07733 att!hounx!marty1 or marty1@hounx.ATT.COM Disclaimer: Opinions stated herein are mine unless and until my employer explicitly claims them; then I lose all rights to them.
mvolo@uncecs.edu (Michael R. Volow) (09/26/89)
In article <3772@blake.acs.washington.edu>, djo7613@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) writes: > She purchased a copy of First Publisher, Version 2 I guess, some time back. > Then she upgraded to the next number (2.1?), and was sent a new manual and > an entire new disk set...in other words, "the works." The upgrade price was not > equivalent to the purchase price, but was more like $30 as I recall. > > Her question was, "Can I give my copy of 2.0 to my folks, for playing > around on their home PC?" This stumped me a bit from the purely legal > standpoint (I *know* it happens a lot in "reality"). If you actually > "owned" the software, the answer would be YES, but since you only license it, > probably the answer is NO. But does that restriction bar you from RESALE > only, or from all possible "redistribution," including charitable donations? A related question is, suppose I have a software package that is no longer manufactured or available, make it a relatively inexpensive one at that ($40). I still use it occasionally and don't want to part with it. But my friend wants one too, can't buy one because it's no longer produced. I would guess that legally I should not give him a copy of it. If it were an out of print book, unavailable second-hand, I would have no qualms about xeroxing it. But I don't know if this applies to software. M Volow, VA Medical Center, Durham, NC 27705 mvolo@ecsvax.UUCP 919 286 0411
jcmorris@mbunix.mitre.org (Joseph C. Morris) (09/27/89)
In a recent article djo7613@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) writes: > > What does >Microsoft want QuickBasic 4 owners to do with QB Version 3? Can IT be >given away freely? Or Central Point, whose PC Tools Version 5 >completely obviates the need to keep old versions like 4.3 around...would >they prefer users hang onto them, or can THEY be recycled, again >without compensation? In a word, NO. When you made your original purchase, you acquired the physical media (disks and documentation) along with the license to possess and use the program. Purchasing a subsequent upgrade doesn't buy you a new license, only new media and the right to use it under your original license. In other words, all copies you've received are covered under the same license, which probably says you can transfer all (but not less than all) material in your possession to a third party. You can't give the outdated copies to anyone else unless you give them your current copies as well. Some vendors (such as Microsoft) have recently begun to include an insert in their upgrade packages which say much the same as I have here.
scjones@sdrc.UUCP (Larry Jones) (09/27/89)
In article <1989Sep26.015940.845@uncecs.edu>, mvolo@uncecs.edu (Michael R. Volow) writes: > > A related question is, suppose I have a software package that is no > longer manufactured or available, make it a relatively inexpensive one > at that ($40). I still use it occasionally and don't want to part with > it. But my friend wants one too, can't buy one because it's no longer > produced. I would guess that legally I should not give him a copy of > it. If it were an out of print book, unavailable second-hand, I would > have no qualms about xeroxing it. But I don't know if this applies to > software. You may not have any qualms about it, but it is still quite illegal and is a real good way to get sued. A copyright holder is in no way obligated to make copies available and the mere fact that something is out of print does NOT remove the copyright protection. This is a common problem with sheet music since it is frequently published for relatively short periods of time, relatively few copies are published, and it is almost never available second-hand. Quite a number of schools and churches have been sued for making additional copies of old scores which were no longer available. The same is true of copyrighted software. There may be little chance of your getting caught, but it is still illegal. DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. ---- Larry Jones UUCP: uunet!sdrc!scjones SDRC scjones@SDRC.UU.NET 2000 Eastman Dr. BIX: ltl Milford, OH 45150-2789 AT&T: (513) 576-2070 "I have plenty of good sense. I just choose to ignore it." -Calvin
Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (09/27/89)
In article <72347@linus.UUCP>, jcmorris@mbunix.mitre.org (Joseph C. Morris) wrote: >In a recent article djo7613@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) writes: >> What does >>Microsoft want QuickBasic 4 owners to do with QB Version 3? Can IT be >>given away freely? > >In a word, NO. When you made your original purchase, you acquired the >physical media (disks and documentation) along with the license to >possess and use the program. Purchasing a subsequent upgrade doesn't >buy you a new license, only new media and the right to use it under >your original license. In other words, all copies you've received are >covered under the same license, which probably says you can transfer What about the case in which you get an entirely new license agreement to sign and send in (along with full manuals)? -- UUCP: {ucbvax,harvard}!cs.cmu.edu!ralf -=-=-=-=- Voice: (412) 268-3053 (school) ARPA: ralf@cs.cmu.edu BIT: ralf%cs.cmu.edu@CMUCCVMA FIDO: Ralf Brown 1:129/46 FAX: available on request Disclaimer? I claimed something? "All through human history, tyrannies have tried to enforce obedience by prohibiting disrespect for the symbols of their power. The swastika is only one example of many in recent history." -- American Bar Association task force on flag burning
leonard@bucket.UUCP (Leonard Erickson) (10/02/89)
As of a year ago, Microsoft's stand was that when you receive your upgrade you are supposed to *destroy* the old version of the software. You *definitely* may NOT transfer it to someone else unless you give them the upgrade too (leaving you with nothing...) On the other hand, Borland's stand is that you can do whatever you please with the old version. If you upgrade to version X, you can sell, give away, whatever, your copy of version x-1. -- Leonard Erickson ...!tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard CIS: [70465,203] "I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters." -- Solomon Short