[comp.sys.ibm.pc] Can I Trust Performance Results?

les@uwovax.uwo.ca (10/17/89)

 I have a 286 clone with a 80286-10 processor running at a clock speed of
12MHz.  Running the Landmark Speed Test indicates that its equivalent to a
IBM AT running at 16MHz!  Why?  How does it get the extra thoughput, or can
a processor 'fool' a performance tester?

 I also get interesting results when measuring Dhrystones against a 386SX.
The 286 measurement is 3,034 Dhrystones, while the 386SX at 16MHz is only
2,845.  The measurement software in this case is called QAPLUS.

Can these measurements be trusted?
---
Les Flodrowski                                   CA: les@vaxi.uwo.CA
Social Science Computing Laboratory          Bitnet: les@uwovax.BITNET
University of Western Ontario                  UUCP: les@julian.UUCP
London, Ontario, Canada, N6A 5C2                     (...!watmath!julian..)

halliday@cheddar.cc.ubc.ca (Laura Halliday) (10/18/89)

In article <3931.253b0031@uwovax.uwo.ca> les@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>
>Can these measurements be trusted?

What you are measuring is how well your computer runs benchmarks. This may or
may not have anything to do with how well your computer will perform on the
tasks you actually use it for.

With the obsession for ever higher benchmark numbers, if I was writing a
compiler (for example), I'd make sure it did well on the standard benchmarks.
It might end up performing well on other programs, too...

>Les Flodrowski                                   CA: les@vaxi.uwo.CA

...laura

dougm@palomar.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Doug Marshall) (10/18/89)

In article <3931.253b0031@uwovax.uwo.ca> les@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>
> I have a 286 clone with a 80286-10 processor running at a clock speed of
>12MHz.  Running the Landmark Speed Test indicates that its equivalent to a
>IBM AT running at 16MHz!  Why?  How does it get the extra thoughput, or can
>a processor 'fool' a performance tester?
>
From what I understand, it has to do with the number of wait states of your
memory. I venture to guess that you have 100ns chips installed and also 
have 0 wait states. This means (I think) that data is available without
waiting an additional cycle for setup to occur. A guess on my part is that
the standard bus definition has one wait state for memory accesses. That's
my opinion, for what it's worth.

----
Doug Marshall   <Doug.Marshall@SanDiego.NCR.COM>
+1 619 485 3494 <...!ncr-sd!palomar!dougm>
"All of us is smarter than each of us!"

blitter@ele.tue.nl (Paul Derks) (10/19/89)

In article <3931.253b0031@uwovax.uwo.ca> les@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>
> I have a 286 clone with a 80286-10 processor running at a clock speed of
>12MHz.  Running the Landmark Speed Test indicates that its equivalent to a
>IBM AT running at 16MHz!  Why?  How does it get the extra thoughput, or can
>a processor 'fool' a performance tester?
>
> I also get interesting results when measuring Dhrystones against a 386SX.
>The 286 measurement is 3,034 Dhrystones, while the 386SX at 16MHz is only
>2,845.  The measurement software in this case is called QAPLUS.

On the screen of Landmark it says: This system is running as an IBM AT at
?? Mhz. The original AT has 1 waitstate on all memory accesses. This means
that a system running at 12 Mhz 0 waitstates executes software as fast as an
16 MHz system with 1 wait state.
I don't know QAPLUS but if the SX runs at 16 MHz 1 wait state the results 
make sense. However the SX can run 32 bits software and is much faster than
a 286 in that mode.
Processor frequency alone says NOTHING! The memory system makes all the 
difference. You should ask questions like: How fast are the RAM chips,
120 ns, 100 ns or 80 ns. Is the memory interleaved, is there a cache? etc.

So, at first glance the results look resonably.

Paul Derks

wayne.ho@f526.n250.z1.fidonet.org (wayne ho) (10/25/89)

 > Is the memory interleaved, is
 > there a cache? etc.
 >
 
Hello there,
    I'm just wondering.. when one turns on memory interleaving does 

this increase the performance of the computer or does it allow for 
slower RAM chips and give you 0 wait states.  I have a 286 NEAT chipset 
board and have 80ns chips installed.  When I install memory interleaving 
the benchmarks seem to be a bit slower.  Does this make sense?
 
                                Wayne

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hakme@latcs1.oz (Dennis Hakme) (10/29/89)

In article <89102623321592@masnet.uucp> wayne.ho@f526.n250.z1.fidonet.org (wayne ho) writes:
> 
>Hello there,
>    I'm just wondering.. when one turns on memory interleaving does 
>
>this increase the performance of the computer or does it allow for 
>slower RAM chips and give you 0 wait states.  I have a 286 NEAT chipset 
>board and have 80ns chips installed.  When I install memory interleaving 
>the benchmarks seem to be a bit slower.  Does this make sense?
> 
>                                Wayne
>

I have a 16MHz NEAT which uses 100ns Ram and has the AMI bios. I always use
interleaving and 0-wait because it is DEFINITELY faster than Normal mode 1-wait state.
With the interleaving set the computer actually runs at an average of 0.7 
wait states which makes it slightly faster than 1-wait.
The only reason that the non-interleave mode with 1-wait state is offered is
because you can only have interleaving when you have an even number of 
memory banks with the same type of ram chips.

I don't know what benchmarks you have been using but all the ones I have
tried verify the above.



						Dennis Hakme  

wayne.ho@f526.n250.z1.fidonet.org (wayne ho) (11/02/89)

 > interleaving and 0-wait because it is DEFINITELY faster
 > than Normal mode 1-wait state.
 > With the interleaving set the computer actually runs at
 > an average of 0.7
 > wait states which makes it slightly faster than 1-wait.
 
 
Hi,
    I think I may understand the what is going on now.  I think the 

interleaving allows for almost 0 wait state operation on the computer 
with RAM chips which are slower.  Because I have RAM which is fast 
enough to run 0 wait states, non-interleaved (I suppose true 0 wait 
state.. not .7 wait states) it will be faster than interleaving the 
RAM.  This is my educated guess.
 
                                        Wayne

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davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (11/04/89)

In article <89110221162151@masnet.uucp>, wayne.ho@f526.n250.z1.fidonet.org (wayne ho) writes:
|                                    Because I have RAM which is fast 
|  enough to run 0 wait states, non-interleaved (I suppose true 0 wait 
|  state.. not .7 wait states) it will be faster than interleaving the 
|  RAM.  This is my educated guess.

  Remember that access time and cycle time are involved here. Access
time is the time to get data from a memory. Cycle time is the time to
get the *next* access. Most DRAM has a cycle time longer than the access
time, while for static RAM they are the same. Not all memory rated at
60ns can be accessed EVERY 60ns. This doesn't mean that your chips won't
do what you expect, but that you and other users should realize that
interleave is designed to avoid just this problem.

  When I last had a look at real data (measured by a competent user),
100ns chips typically could only go 140-160ns cycles time. If someone
has more recent data I would like to see it, mine is back from the days
when 100ns was hot stuff.
-- 
bill davidsen	(davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen)
"The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called
'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see
that the world is flat!" - anon