dkonerding@eagle.wesleyan.edu (12/02/89)
Hello, folks. I've got a small problem with a Rainbow. I was looking around the science department in my high school and found an ancient Rainbow MSDOS/CP/M machine with about 128k of memory. I've told the my chem teacher that I could hook it up to a printer and he'd be able to process words on it. I've had some problems: There's a 10MB HD that autoboots. The machine came with MSDOS 2.05, and I've installed that on the HD. However, when I insert a MSDOS 3.3 disk, and try to run a program, it boots me to an error screen, or just plain returns me to the prompt. I assume that is because MSDOS 2.05 itself cannot run programs that new. However, using 2.05's sys command, I was able to install 3.3 DOS on the HD-- however, the Rainbow "does not recognize it". Therefore, I cannot run (I assume) anything that does not work with old DOS). I have a dilemma. Can anyone help me? I can think of two solutions: 1. Find a decent word proc for 2.05. I can use EDLIN; I don't want to force my teacher to. Does anybody know of a good word proc for 2.05 MSDOS? 2. Get DOS 3.3 to work. THis would be ideal. However, it just doesn't want to work. COMMAND.COM, when run (after installing 2.05 COMMAND.COM through autoboot), gives me garbage. Can 3.3 work on such an ancient machine? Help! Thanks! -- Remember, while having sex, always, always wear a condiment. DKONERDING@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU DKONERDING%EAGLE@WESLEYAN.BITNET
bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) (12/03/89)
In article <4438@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, dkonerding@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: > Hello, folks. I've got a small problem with a Rainbow. > There's a 10MB HD that autoboots. The machine came with MSDOS 2.05, > and I've installed that on the HD. However, when I insert a MSDOS 3.3 disk, > and try to run a program, it boots me to an error screen, or just plain > returns me to the prompt. I assume that is because MSDOS 2.05 itself > cannot run programs that new. However, using 2.05's sys command, I was > able to install 3.3 DOS on the HD-- however, the Rainbow "does not > recognize it". Therefore, I cannot run (I assume) anything that does > not work with old DOS). I'm not quite sure what the configuration of the Rainbow is from the description you've given, but I can tell you a few things about the machine that will explain the problems you're having. First of all, the Rainbow is not PC compatible. It does run MS-DOS, but that's because it has a specially customized version of MS-DOS that knows how to deal with the hardware differences. For example, screen memory is organized differently and in a different location, graphics are totally different from PC graphics, the disk interface can only be described as odd (the floppy driver actually runs on the Z80 rather than the 8088), the serial I/O is done in a completely different way, the ROM-BIOS is different, etc, etc. Forget running DOS 3.3 on it - the standard DOS 3.3 is expecting a PC compatible, and the Rainbow just isn't. In many ways it's not a bad machine (especially for its time - 1983; one of the nice things you can do with it is put up to 896K of memory on the machine - all of it useable by MS-DOS: the limit on the IBM-PC is that the video memory sits smack in the middle of your address space and limits you to 640k) but it's different from most machines you see today and it's dated. Secondly, the floppy drives on the Rainbow are not 360K DSDD floppy drives - they are 400K SSDD 96TPI drives. This is an odd format that isn't very popular any more - though the machine can read (and sometimes write, if you are lucky) SSDD 180K floppy drives. I am not sure why the machine is running MS-DOS 2.05. The version that was normally run with a hard disk drive on the Rainbow was 2.11. It's possible that the hard disk isn't a DEC or DEC compatible hard disk (there were a couple made for the machine that didn't attach into the machine in the standard way - I think Convex made one of them - and they may not require MS-DOS 2.11). In any event, none of this helps you get things running. As far as I know, there isn't an MS-DOS 3.3 for the Rainbow, but there is an MS-DOS 3.1. It is available from the major systems house that still produces new Rainbow products, Suitable Solutions. They can also sell a copy of Code Blue, which is a software product that provides >nearly< complete IBM-PC emulation as long as the program you're running doesn't do anything too hardware-dependent (it DOES provide video memory emulation, which is the major hardware dependency in most non-communications PC software). Also available is a floppy disk drive that can read and write standard 360K floppies, and one that will read and write 720K 3.5" floppies; extra memory cards (the Rainbow didn't use a standard PC bus and won't take normal PC memory, you need a special card. I can't tell from your stated configuration whether you have one already or not. If you do, you can just add standard 64K or 256K memory chips to it, though you may need to adjust some of the jumpers on the card to tell it what kind of chips you are using); Windows for the Rainbow; and a 286 accelerator card. Their address is: Suitable Solutions 1700 Wyatt Drive, Suite 12 Santa Clara, CA 95054 408-727-9090 Their prices are somewhat above the PC-clone prices but not greatly so; they are also extremely reputable people to deal with. You can also often find used Rainbow equipment from places that sell used DEC equipment such as Newman or Midwest or Brookline. You might be able to find them in something like Computer Shopper or ask around a local college or other DEC shop - their catalogs are everywhere at such a place, and their prices on used Rainbow hardware will be lower than Suitable Solutions'. I'm not sure I would recommend upgrading the machine to a more reasonable configuration (memory especially seems small by modern standards) - it depends on whether you want to live with the compatibility problems or not. It can still be a very nice and useable machine, but even with MS-DOS 3.1 and Code Blue, you still can't just drop any random PC program onto it and expect it to work. As for word processors, there are four things you could try: 1. It is likely that if you get Code Blue and MS-DOS 3.1 from Suitable Solutions, that your favorite PC word processor will run on the Rainbow if you can convert it to the appropriate disk format (you may or may not want to consider adding a 360 or 720K floppy drive). Word processors (except Microsoft Word, I don't know if it can be made to run on the Rainbow but it is notorious for being hardware dependent) tend to work pretty well in this environment. 2. You could probably locate a copy of SEDT from a DEC-related bulletin board; this is a nice screen editor that is public domain. Check a DEC-related newsgroup such as comp.sys.dec.micro, if you have access to usenet; if not and you can't locate any mail me and I will try to locate one in your area. 3. EDT from Boston Business Computing, which is a pretty nice screen editor but which costs real money ($300). Boston Business Computing Riverwalk Center 360 Merrimack Street Lawrence, MA 01843 4. VEDIT from CompuView, which is a screen editor with a TECO-like macro language. I don't know the cost - I think they have several versions (VEDIT, VEDIT/PlUS) the last I knew, with a fairly steep price curve (like maybe $100 for VEDIT, $250 for VEDIT/PLUS). CompuView 1955 Pauline Blvd Ann Arbor, MI 48103 One way or another, unless you can make do with nothing but SEDT, you will either have to spend some money on the machine or sell it and buy a PC clone. Be forewarned however that it doesn't have a great deal of resale value ... probably under $500; a Rainbow with 128K of memory, monochrome monitor, no graphics board, and no hard drive sells for around $200-$300 and less if you sell to a reseller such as Newman. I don't know how much the hard drive would add; if it's DEC it might add a bit more, but it sounds like it's third-party, so my guess is that the machine is worth maybe $400 retail (if you can find someone who still uses Rainbows). Good luck. Bruce C. Wright
bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) (12/03/89)
In article <4438@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, dkonerding@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: > Hello, folks. I've got a small problem with a Rainbow. I was looking > around the science department in my high school and found an ancient Rainbow > MSDOS/CP/M machine with about 128k of memory. I've told the my chem teacher > that I could hook it up to a printer and he'd be able to process words on it. ^^^^^^^ > I've had some problems: I missed this the first time around. If you don't already have a printer for the Rainbow, you can't use the typical PC printer (which is a parallel device) - you need a serial printer. The recommended DEC printers to use with the Rainbow were the LA50 and the LA75 (updated LA50), and the LQP series (daisy wheel printers and not recommended any more). If you can't find an LA50/LA75 availalbe cheap, you might be able to shop around for a serial printer elsewhere -- or buy a serial-to-parallel converter, which is a little hardware box that converts from one to the other. Sorry if this causes you problems ... Bruce C. Wright
cur022@zodiac.ukc.ac.uk (Bob Eager) (12/03/89)
In article <4438@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, dkonerding@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: > Hello, folks. I've got a small problem with a Rainbow. ... You don't say where the 3.3 DOS came from, but I would hazard a guess that it wasn't for a Rainbow. A common misconception is that DOS runs unchanged on all machines; it doesn't. The error arises because most machines are IBM compatible and you can usually (not always) use any PC version of DOS. The Rainbow DOS uses the Rainbow BIOS to communicate with the hardware. This has an interface nothing like the PC. First (and major) problem. Second problem is that the Rainbow does its I/O and some other stuff through an onboard Z80; the Rainbow DOS disk contains extra boot stuff to set this up, I believe. Second problem. Unless you do a *lot* of digging and hacking, or can locate a DOS 3.3 for the Rainbow (doubtful) then I guess you are stuck with 2.x. There was certainly a 2.11 for the Rainbow; I think that was the last but I might be wrong. ---------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Bob Eager | University of Kent at Canterbury rde@ukc.ac.uk | +44 227 764000 ext 7589 ---------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
fontana@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Josep M. Fontana) (12/03/89)
In addition to the excellent article by Bruce Wright, it might be worth-
while noting a few points.
1) There is a version of WordPerfect (v4.2) designed for the Rainbow.
You might contact the folks at Orem, UT about it, or call Caroline
Mack of _Rainbow News_ (1-618-632-1143) who would know of a place
selling it.
2) With Code Blue you can run the PC version of WordPerfect v5.0. I
believe there's a toggle for handling the 25th line (the Rainbow
screen uses only 24). Code Blue also lets you run the latest
offerings from Borland, even the IDE's, on the Rainbow.
3) The newsgroup comp.sys.dec.micro contains discussions about Rainbow
matters, and this group is gatewayed with the Rainbow Echo on
FidoNet. There's also been talk of forwarding messages along to
the DECPC forum on CompuServe, but this link doesn't appear
operational yet. In short, your questions about the Rainbow will
reach a more suitable audience if you ask them in the other forum
(I think I've correctly directed followups there.)
Bruce is right (no pun intented :-) in another aspect. You should
consider seriously before you spend any money on upgrading the Rainbow
as resale values are extremely low and, despite the efforts of
Suitable Solutions, compatibility is still a problem.
Josep M.
-- Josep Maria Fontana,
3940 Locust Walk (MLCH)
Philadelphia, PA 19104davidsen@sungod.crd.ge.com (William Davidsen) (12/04/89)
In article <3306@rti.UUCP> bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) writes: | I missed this the first time around. If you don't already have a printer | for the Rainbow, you can't use the typical PC printer (which is a parallel | device) - you need a serial printer. Well it depends on the availability of a parallel port. You could get a parallel port option for the Rainbow (ask the man who helped keep 50 of them running), although I suspect that it took the same connector as the hard disk, internally. The port labeled PRINTER is serial, as you mentioned. bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM) {uunet | philabs}!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
davidsen@sungod.crd.ge.com (William Davidsen) (12/04/89)
In article <9504@zodiac.ukc.ac.uk> cur022@zodiac.ukc.ac.uk (Bob Eager) writes: | Unless you do a *lot* of digging and hacking, or can locate a DOS 3.3 for the | Rainbow (doubtful) then I guess you are stuck with 2.x. There was certainly | a 2.11 for the Rainbow; I think that was the last but I might be wrong. Our DEC guys don't know of any later version. This machine was allowed to die on the vine. It's a great machine for a hacker, though, selling cheap used and having two CPU's to play with. bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM) {uunet | philabs}!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me