pjd@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Peter J. Dotzauer) (11/30/89)
Can a PC, equipped with an ordinary modem, send image data (perhaps
obtained by scanning, or through translation to an appropriate
data format) to an ordinary fax machine, by dialing up that fax
machine? And what about the reverse process?
-=-
Peter Dotzauer: Numerical Cartography Lab, Dept. of Geography, OSU, Columbus, OH
VOICE: (614) 292-1357 FAX: 292-9180 DATA: 293-0081
BITNET: ts3285@ohstvma UUCP: ...!osu-cis!hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu!pjd
FIDO: 1:226/50 INTERNET: pjd@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu [128.146.1.5]jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) (11/30/89)
pjd@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Peter J. Dotzauer) writes: >Can a PC, equipped with an ordinary modem, send image data (perhaps >obtained by scanning, or through translation to an appropriate >data format) to an ordinary fax machine, by dialing up that fax >machine? And what about the reverse process? No, FAX machines transmit at 9600 baud for the most part and use their own special protocol. Some older FAX machines transmit at 4800 baud. If it was that simple, the FAX board/modem would have never be developed. Sorry, there's more to a FAX machine that just a carrier that is similiar to a modem. // John C. Archambeau /* **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* ** Flames : /dev/null (on my Minix partition) **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* ** ARPA : crash!pnet01!jca@nosc.mil ** INET : jca@pnet01.cts.com ** UUCP : {nosc ucsd hplabs!hd-sdd}!crash!pnet01!jca **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* ** Note : My opinions are exactly that...mine. Bill Gates couldn't buy ** my opinion...but he could rent it for a few nanoseconds. :) **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* */
flinton@eagle.wesleyan.edu (12/01/89)
In article <517@nisca.ircc.ohio-state.edu>, pjd@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Peter J. Dotzauer) asks: > Can a PC, equipped with an ordinary modem, send image data (perhaps > obtained by scanning, or through translation to an appropriate > data format) to an ordinary fax machine, by dialing up that fax > machine? And what about the reverse process? This has been taken up in certain conversation threads in comp.dcom.modems, comp.dcom.telecom, and comp.sys.att (for unix boxes), and I suppose elsewhere. Some commercial e-mail services will download to any fax machine you specify a "faxified" version of whatever ASCII message you create at your (modem-equipped) PC's keyboard (attmail, among others, comes to mind). Also, hobbyist PC mag's recently have been full of add-in FAX-send/receive board ads. These, unlike the commercial e-mail fax trans{lator|mitter}s, go both ways. Beware, though, that an "ordinary" modem may work at the wrong speed, use the wrong modulation scheme, and be unable to perform the initial fax/fax handshaking unless it's really _very_ controllable by the PC (and _that_ controllable it rarely is -- whence the dedicated add-in FAX boards). -- Fred [E.J. Linton, Math. Dept., Wesleyan U., Middletown, CT 06457]
roise@sumax.UUCP (Linda L. Roise) (12/04/89)
>No, FAX machines transmit at 9600 baud for the most part and use their own >special protocol. Some older FAX machines transmit at 4800 baud. If it was >that simple, the FAX board/modem would have never be developed. Sorry, >there's more to a FAX machine that just a carrier that is similiar to a modem. I had also been wondering about this question. I take it, then, that even if I were to call at 9600 baud, to a newer FAX, the appropriate protocalls would not be available, so it wouldn't work? Has anyone developed any software that might translate the data into acceptable formats? Or are we talking about apples and oranges, even though the two types of machines seem to serve a similar function? Linda Roise, Seattle University, Seattle, WA 98122 roise@sumax.UUCP
jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) (12/05/89)
roise@sumax.UUCP (Linda L. Roise) writes: >>No, FAX machines transmit at 9600 baud for the most part and use their own >>special protocol. Some older FAX machines transmit at 4800 baud. If it was >>that simple, the FAX board/modem would have never be developed. Sorry, >>there's more to a FAX machine that just a carrier that is similiar to a modem. > >I had also been wondering about this question. I take it, then, that even >if I were to call at 9600 baud, to a newer FAX, the appropriate protocalls >would not be available, so it wouldn't work? Correct. >Has anyone developed any software that might translate the data into acceptable >formats? Or are we talking about apples and oranges, even though the two types >of machines seem to serve a similar function? You are talking about apples and oranges here. A data modem talking to a FAX machine is like two 9600 baud modems with their own proprietary protocol talking to each other. It ain't going to work. FAX machines have their own special chip sets (as I've found out in researching FAX modems for a client of mine) that support the Group II and/or III FAX machine protocols. A FAX machine may sound like a modem carrier, but there's a lot more going on besides a Bell 212A or CCITT V.22bis sounding carrier. CCITT is also responsible for standardization of FAX machine protocols. For more in depth technobabble on the matter, get some technical literature from them. Also, if such a program does exist, wouldn't it stand to reason that the FAX board/modem would have never seen the light of day? A data modem just doesn't have the hardware to even emulate a FAX machine. Take apart some of the newer modems and there isn't much to them. My SupraModem 2400 only has two major chips on it. However, I think there's a bit more to FAX machines since they are basically a modem-like piece of hardware and a scanner put into one. // JCA /* **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* ** Flames : /dev/null | My opinions are exactly that, ** ARPANET : crash!pnet01!jca@nosc.mil | mine. Bill Gates couldn't buy ** INTERNET: jca@pnet01.cts.com | it, but he could rent it. :) ** UUCP : {nsoc ucsd hplabs!hd-sdd}!crash!pnet01!jca **--------------------------------------------------------------------------* */
walkerb@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Brian Walker) (12/05/89)
In article <1108@sumax.UUCP> roise@sumax.UUCP (Linda L. Roise) writes: >>No, FAX machines transmit at 9600 baud for the most part and use their own >>special protocol. Some older FAX machines transmit at 4800 baud. If it was >>that simple, the FAX board/modem would have never be developed. Sorry, >>there's more to a FAX machine that just a carrier that is similiar to a modem. > >I had also been wondering about this question. I take it, then, that even >if I were to call at 9600 baud, to a newer FAX, the appropriate protocalls >would not be available, so it wouldn't work? > >Has anyone developed any software that might translate the data into acceptable >formats? Or are we talking about apples and oranges, even though the two types >of machines seem to serve a similar function? Well, we can start with the modem itself. Fax machines use the v.29 modem standard developed by CCITT, the international standards committee for communications. V.29 is a half-duplex protocol so it wouldn't be all that great for computers but is quite adequate for fax. This stanndard is not compatible with any of the multitude of standards provided for personal computers. On an operational level, there is really nothing that a fax machine does that a PC could not handle, with a little help. A computer system would just have to provide scanning and printing capabilities and the appropriate compression algorithm. Brian Walker walkerb@tramp.colorado.edu "If we imagine no worse of them than they of ..!ncar!boulder!tramp!walkerb themselves, they may pass for excellent men." University of Colorado at Boulder
joel@peora.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch) (12/06/89)
In article <517@nisca.ircc.ohio-state.edu>, pjd@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Peter J. Dotzauer) writes: > Can a PC, equipped with an ordinary modem, send image data (perhaps > obtained by scanning, or through translation to an appropriate > data format) to an ordinary fax machine, by dialing up that fax > machine? And what about the reverse process? Well not an ordinary modem, but my new JDR catalog on page 34 has a 2400 baud internal modem that will SEND faxes at 4800 baud. It can not receive fax. The part number is MCT-FAXM, price $119.95. They also offer an upgrade kit to give their internal modems the fax receive capability for $49.95. I have no other information about how this product works. -- Joel Upchurch/Concurrent Computer Corp/2486 Sand Lake Rd/Orlando, FL 32809 joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel Telephone: (407) 850-1040 Fax: (407) 857-0713
RHOPGOOD@ucs.UAlberta.CA (Robert Hopgood) (12/06/89)
>Can a PC, equipped with an ordinary modem, send image data (perhaps >obtained by scanning, or through translation to an appropriate >data format) to an ordinary fax machine, by dialing up that fax >machine? And what about the reverse process? if you have a large need for your computer to communicate with fax machines, there are a number of fax boards that you can put in to let you do this. i believe prices start around 400 to 500. robert hopgood
jcb@loral.UUCP (Jay Bowden) (12/06/89)
In article <797@crash.cts.com> jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes: >pjd@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Peter J. Dotzauer) writes: >>Can a PC, equipped with an ordinary modem, send image data >>to an ordinary fax machine, by dialing up that fax Went into a computer store and asked if they hada FAX card (I wanted a CFAX like the one I allready had one of). They showed me a $150 "modem" card (Hayes 2400 compatible) that could also send to FAX machines. And that was the catch: it could SEND only. I took it back. It was called "SMART ONE". So, no an ORDINARY modem can't, but a "special" modem might. - Jay -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jay Bowden, EE/Consultant; see also Bowden Engineering Currently contracted at Loral Instrumentation, San Diego {ucbvax, ittvax!dcdwest, akgua, decvax, ihnp4}!ucsd!loral!jcb
finn@mojo.UUCP (Finn Markmanrud) (12/07/89)
>if you have a large need for your computer to communicate with fax >machines, there are a number of fax boards that you can put in to let you >do this. > >i believe prices start around 400 to 500. > > >robert hopgood > I have seen them for around $200. A GOOD one might cost you $400 +, though. Finn-- +=====================+========================+=============================+ | Finn Markmanrud | finn@mojo.nec.com | "It can't happen here." | | (508) 264 8668 | Boxboro, MA | F.Z. | +=====================+========================+=============================+
finn@mojo.UUCP (Finn Markmanrud) (12/07/89)
In article <4041@peora.ccur.com> joel@peora.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch) writes: > >Well not an ordinary modem, but my new JDR catalog on page 34 has a >2400 baud internal modem that will SEND faxes at 4800 baud. It can >not receive fax. The part number is MCT-FAXM, price $119.95. They >also offer an upgrade kit to give their internal modems the fax >receive capability for $49.95. > >I have no other information about how this product works. >-- Sounds interesting! Does anyone know any more about this? -- +=====================+========================+=============================+ | Finn Markmanrud | finn@mojo.nec.com | "It can't happen here." | | (508) 264 8668 | Boxboro, MA | F.Z. | +=====================+========================+=============================+