usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (11/29/89)
When operating in the Desqview environment, is EMS 4.0 treated like EEMS? I have an 80286, and I need to know if it is possible to multitask beyond 640K. Currently, Desqview swaps programs in and out of low memory. It sure would be nice to run Microsoft C (~380K) and a text editor (~200K) with background compilation. Am I asking too much of an 80286 under DOS? Or will I have to upgrade to an 80386? Thanks in advance. Patrick Draper
mlord@bmers58.UUCP (Mark Lord) (11/29/89)
In article <5555@cps3xx.UUCP> draper@cpsin1.UUCP (Patrick J Draper) writes: >When operating in the Desqview environment, is EMS 4.0 treated like >EEMS? I have an 80286, and I need to know if it is possible to multitask >beyond 640K. Currently, Desqview swaps programs in and out of low >memory. It sure would be nice to run Microsoft C (~380K) and a text >editor (~200K) with background compilation. IF your memory is HARDWARE EMS 4.0 (as opposed to 3.2 hardware with 4.0 software drivers only), then you should be able to use xdv.com instead of dv.exe to enter DESQVIEW. Try it. If this works (ie. if desqview does not complain when you run xdv), then YES. DesqView treats true EMS 4.0 hardware the same as EEMS or PS/2 expansion cards, enabling it to swap EMS page tables instead of copying memory, which permits it to do multitasking. HOWEVER, like the DesqView Manuals explain (you have them, right?), for most effective use, you need to disable main motherboard memory (as much as possible.. say all but 256K) and use your EMS 4.0 to "backfill" (take the place of) this memory. This allows DV to do efficient multitasking of programs as large as the amount of backfill (in this example, 640k-256k=384k max, plus the regular 64k EMS frame in high memory). >Am I asking too much of an 80286 under DOS? Or will I have to upgrade to >an 80386? No, this is not asking too much.. as long as you have REAL EMS 4.0 hardware with backfill capability. -- +----------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Mark S. Lord | Hey, It's only MY opinion. | | ..!utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!mlord%bmers58 | Feel free to have your own.| +----------------------------------------+----------------------------+
plim@hpsgpa.HP.COM (Peter Lim) (11/30/89)
> When operating in the Desqview environment, is EMS 4.0 treated like > EEMS? > Yes if you have true hardware EMS 4.0. Those software emulators are no bloody good. True EMS 4.0 means that you can switch EMS pages in and out of the address space below the 640K as well. > I have an 80286, and I need to know if it is possible to multitask > beyond 640K. Currently, Desqview swaps programs in and out of low > memory. It sure would be nice to run Microsoft C (~380K) and a text > editor (~200K) with background compilation. > Well, technically speaking with EMS 4.0, what you want is not "multitask beyond 640K". What you actually want is multitask with multiple copies of below 640K ! You will need to "backfill" your motherboard memory from 256K to 640K. What this means is that you'll need to plug out all your motherboard memory above 256K, set the motherboard switches (or CMOS RAM) to say that you have only 256K of RAM -- unless you are the very few person who own an AST AT motherboard which can do bank switching with memory below 640K :-). Then, you'll have to instruct DesqView (or was it the EMS driver ??) to "backfill" the empty space from 256K to 640K. From then on, you should be able to do fairly true multitasking in the memory range from 256K to 640K (which is about 384K; so I wonder if your Microsoft C partition will fit ??). Its all in the DesqView manual. > Am I asking too much of an 80286 under DOS? Or will I have to upgrade to > an 80386? > No, you are not asking too much from 80286 under DOS provided you have true hardware EMS 4.0. But then as I said earlier, you will only get 384K to multitask in. Of course everything will work better if you have an 80386 machine. What I said above are pure logical reasoning, I have not done it myself. I have an 80386 machine, and with QEMM-386 I load all my TSR into memory above 640K leaving only DOS below 640K. When I run DesqView, I get about 512K of memory to multitask in, which is great ! Hope that helps. Happy multitasking ! Regards, Peter Lim. HP Singapore IC Design Center. E-mail address: plim@hpsgwg.HP.COM Snail Mail address: Peter Lim Hewlett Packard Singapore, (ICDS, ICS) 1150, Depot Road, Singapore 0410. Telephone: (065)-279-2289
goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com (12/01/89)
In article <567@bmers58.UUCP>, mlord@bmers58.UUCP (Mark Lord) writes... >IF your memory is HARDWARE EMS 4.0 (as opposed to 3.2 hardware with 4.0 >software drivers only), then you should be able to use xdv.com instead of >dv.exe to enter DESQVIEW. Try it. If this works (ie. if desqview does not >complain when you run xdv), then YES. >HOWEVER, like the DesqView Manuals explain (you have them, right?), for >most effective use, you need to disable main motherboard memory (as much as >possible.. say all but 256K) and use your EMS 4.0 to "backfill" (take the place >of) this memory. This allows DV to do efficient multitasking of programs >as large as the amount of backfill (in this example, 640k-256k=384k max, plus >the regular 64k EMS frame in high memory). Okay, please clarify this for me, somebody. Given the current generation clone-boards with hardware 4.0 support (in particular, the Suntac with SEMS4 as the EMS driver), will Desqview be able to use expanded memory correctly? These boards insist that you FIRST fill up the 640k base memory before turning all of the remaining memory into (switch-selected) expanded or extended memory. Right now mine has 1M memory, with 640k base + 384 EMS. I can't remove any from the base. Will Desqview be able to do EMS swapping? Or, will it be able to swap into extended memory, if the EMS is disabled? fred (too cheap for a 386)
poffen@chomolungma (Russ Poffenberger) (12/04/89)
In article <340040@hpsgpa.HP.COM> plim@hpsgpa.HP.COM (Peter Lim) writes: >Well, technically speaking with EMS 4.0, what you want is not "multitask >beyond 640K". What you actually want is multitask with multiple copies >of below 640K ! You will need to "backfill" your motherboard memory from >256K to 640K. What this means is that you'll need to plug out all your >motherboard memory above 256K, set the motherboard switches (or CMOS >RAM) to say that you have only 256K of RAM -- unless you are the very This is not easy to do on most 286 machines. If you have 256K chips (most likely) then you MUST have 18 of them installed to maintain a 16bit data path, this implies a minimum of 512K. An 80386 is even worse, you must have memory in 32 bit increments meaning that 1Mbyte is the minimum for 256k chips. Now if your machine uses 64K chips (I don't think one exists, not a 286 or 386 anyway) then this wouldn't be a problem. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254 ------------------------- In a dictatorship, people suffer without complaining. In a democracy, people complain without suffering.
stv@qvax2.UUCP (Steve Vance@ex2499) (12/13/89)
In article <6475@shlump.nac.dec.com> goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com writes: > >Okay, please clarify this for me, somebody. > >Given the current generation clone-boards with hardware 4.0 support >(in particular, the Suntac with SEMS4 as the EMS driver), will Desqview >be able to use expanded memory correctly? These boards insist that you >FIRST fill up the 640k base memory before turning all of the remaining >memory into (switch-selected) expanded or extended memory. Yes, you are right. This talk of "removing RAM from the Motherboard and backfilling" is obsolete. Modern boards are set up so that you can have a 1 MB SIMM as your only RAM. I have 4 such SIMMS on my motherboard, giving me 4 MB. There is room for 4 more. If your Motherboard uses the Chips & Technology NEAT chipset, and/or is real LIM 4.0, not 3.2 with a software driver, then you CAN do multitasking, running programs in the background. HOWEVER, it is not easy. xdv.exe probably won't help you. For a start, you will need a relatively recent version of EMS driver from your motherboard manufacturer. I will dig up the information at home on this. Please Email me if you are interested in doing this (and meet the above qualifications), so that I have incentive to do so. By the way, 1 MB goes really fast. I suggest you think about buying more RAM. -- Steve Vance {hplabs,lll-winken,pacbell}!qantel!stv qantel!stv@lll-winken.llnl.gov Qantel Business Computers, Hayward, CA